Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[Spartygirl]

I cant believe we have actual video of who we think is the killer and no one can say for sure that its RA. Like, its a freaking video.

Imagine it was the teenagers that were there..? Doing the Odinism thing.. Teenagers would have access to box cutters too.. All the kids in the area would mostly go to the same school no? Maybe its like a mean girls thing. With no SA, maybe they just got them to switch clothes to embarrass them.. One of the teenagers "is still traumatized". Whats up with that..

Also tho for real.. If I am looking in that park for 2 missing girls.. near that bridge as their snap put them there. The FIRST place I'm going to look is around that bridge. A vid on youtube says its a popular hangout spot (the bridge specifically - people would take grad pics and wedding pics there) and that everyone knew it was dangerous.
I would have made sure they didnt fall off.. I'd look in the river to see if they had drowned.
How many ppl were out looking for the girls that night? Have they looked for someone before?

Here is a great thread to get you started (including the searches)

Thread 'IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION'

Feb 21, 2017

Please post media maps & timelines here. *NO DISCUSSION*


MISSING: Two 13-year-old girls dropped off to go walking at Carroll County trail

Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail Williams and Liberty German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off to go hiking at High Bridge, just east of Delphi.

Police ID bodies of Indiana girls

Two bodies found along a northern Indiana stream are those...

• Coldpizza
• Replies: 1,029
• Forum: Located Timeline and Media Links

• 

 

[Warwick7]

So a question for the masses does anybody who thought he was guilty now think he is innocent?

No.
No.

 

[Spartygirl]

So a question for the masses does anybody who thought he was guilty now think he is innocent?

Nope

 

[zh0r4]

Didn't Carter testify that they were involved until 2021? If I understand correctly, that's four years they were helping to go down various rabbit holes with no resolution.

Honestly, after seeing what was reported from Eldridge's testimony (who was a former FBI agent), I don't have a lot of confidence that keeping the FBI on the case would have accomplished much.

Are we really at the point that we are even going to bash the FBI? I want justice for the girls, they are ultimately what I care about in this case.

I don’t see anything conducive re: taking sides between the local LE and FBI. But if you strictly approach the information in front of you diplomatically, the FBI is typically welcome to help other PDs, especially smaller PDs. I have never heard of them being kicked off any case until now. They have up to date forensic tools that most PDs can’t afford or don’t have access to, and this is why their help is typically appreciated. I’m confused as to why the FBI couldn’t have helped more in this case, especially considering the first 2 months of investigative material was lost, the phone extraction wasn’t even completed until the D’s expert finished it, hairs went untested, they don’t know if the phone was dirty or wet when found, they left sticks with DNA evidence in the elements to potentially disintegrate before collecting them…..to be fair, it seems like they needed the help since they failed to follow basic investigative protocol. AJMO.

 

[photographer4]

Some of the wounds were 2 inches deep. I don’t see how a box cutter could make that kind of incision.

I keep coming back to where RA told Wala he killed the kids, exited the area, went to his car, then got in his car. Ok-- so...

IF SC saw a man muddy and bloody AND he went directly to his car in that state... there is NO WAY he's getting into his car and driving to CVS all muddy and bloody to get rid of a boxcutter. Further, no way this is happening without transfer evidence from the scene to that car. Period. That might be something like blood, DNA, a hair... mud... something. It makes NO sense to me they found NOTHING in his car to tie him to the kids or the crimes!! It just is NOT realistic imo.

NOWHERE in his statement does he suggest he washed up in the creek, with a water bottle, used a wash rag... stomped in a puddle... rolled in a snow hill -- nothing. Not believable imo.

"He covered their bodies with tree branches and exited avoiding the trail so not to be seen.’
She claimed Allen told her he returned to his car which was parked by the old CPS building – the location investigators believe a witness spotted it." -

Prison psychologist says Richard Allen confessed to her multiple times

Accused Delphi murderer Richard Allen's defense questioned the validity of the multiple jailhouse confessions due to the fact that he was subjected to months of solitary confinement

www.dailymail.co.uk

"Allen then told Wala he covered Abby and Libby’s bodies with tree branches. He said he exited the area by keeping off the trail to not be seen.
He said he returned to his vehicle, which was parked by a nearby building." -

Allen: ‘I laid in wait’ - Carroll County Comet

Richard Allen “laid in wait” for Abigail Williams and Liberty German on the Monon High Bridge Trail on Feb. 13, 2017. Wednesday, jurors heard statements Allen made to his prison clinical psychologist, Dr. Monica Wala. Among those is his breakdown of what happened on the trail that day. Allen is...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[Mauig’ma]

I keep coming back to where RA told Wala he killed the kids, exited the area, went to his car, then got in his car. Ok-- so...

IF SC saw a man muddy and bloody AND he went directly to his car in that state... there is NO WAY he's getting into his car and driving to CVS all muddy and bloody to get rid of a boxcutter. Further, no way this is happening without transfer evidence from the scene to that car. Period. That might be something like blood, DNA, a hair... mud... something. It makes NO sense to me they found NOTHING in his car to tie him to the kids or the crimes!! It just is NOT realistic imo.

NOWHERE in his statement does he suggest he washed up in the creek, with a water bottle, used a wash rag... stomped in a puddle... rolled in a snow hill -- nothing. Not believable imo.

"He covered their bodies with tree branches and exited avoiding the trail so not to be seen.’
She claimed Allen told her he returned to his car which was parked by the old CPS building – the location investigators believe a witness spotted it." -

Prison psychologist says Richard Allen confessed to her multiple times

Accused Delphi murderer Richard Allen's defense questioned the validity of the multiple jailhouse confessions due to the fact that he was subjected to months of solitary confinement

www.dailymail.co.uk

"Allen then told Wala he covered Abby and Libby’s bodies with tree branches. He said he exited the area by keeping off the trail to not be seen.
He said he returned to his vehicle, which was parked by a nearby building." -

Allen: ‘I laid in wait’ - Carroll County Comet

Richard Allen “laid in wait” for Abigail Williams and Liberty German on the Monon High Bridge Trail on Feb. 13, 2017. Wednesday, jurors heard statements Allen made to his prison clinical psychologist, Dr. Monica Wala. Among those is his breakdown of what happened on the trail that day. Allen is...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

He’s had many years to clean that car of his imo

 

[Spartygirl]

Are we really at the point that we are even going to bash the FBI? I want justice for the girls, they are ultimately what I care about in this case.

I don’t see anything conducive re: taking sides between the local LE and FBI. But if you strictly approach the information in front of you diplomatically, the FBI is typically welcome to help other PDs, especially smaller PDs. I have never heard of them being kicked off any case until now. They have up to date forensic tools that most PDs can’t afford or don’t have access to, and this is why their help is typically appreciated. I’m confused as to why the FBI couldn’t have helped more in this case, especially considering the first 2 months of investigative material was lost, the phone extraction wasn’t even completed until the D’s expert finished it, hairs went untested, they don’t know if the phone was dirty or wet when found, they left sticks with DNA evidence in the elements to potentially disintegrate before collecting them…..to be fair, it seems like they needed the help since they failed to follow basic investigative protocol. AJMO.

I dont believe OP was "Bashing" FBI but expressing reasoning for keeping them or dismissing them.

However, I respect LE and we do not know the dynamics or reasons they dismissed them, but I would think any assistance from FBI would be so beneficial to the case.

 

[photographer4]

So if LE bungled the investigation so badly, I have to wonder why Superintendent Carter asked the FBI to leave the investigation? Shouldn't he have wanted the FBI to stay on? At least the FBI is technically competent...

Maybe he didn't want the FBI to expose their mistakes? Maybe he never imagined it might ever get to trial and no one would ever know? Moo.

 

[Jw192]

So a question for the masses does anybody who thought he was guilty now think he is innocent?

<modsnip>

@Salah11
I was undecided and now I'm a convinced guilty verdict

Those little lasses and their families deserve this long overdue justice

 

[Boxer]

The sheriff did not try to find a man named Whiteman who talked to to them about being on the trail either.

 

[photographer4]

Not sure if this was posted yet, but AB is live....

 

[photographer4]

-- The majority of walkers on the trail that day saw BG.
-- Libby felt something wasn’t right and turned video on that day.
--But, RA didn’t see BG on the trail that day.

• October 2023, leaked crime scene photos from the defense office of attorneys BR and AB.
• Both defense attorneys were dismissed from the case.
• RA still wanted this same defense [what does that tell you about him] team to defend him.
• January 2024, defense team reinstated

The defendant’s defense team is not suggesting that RA did not confess to the double murder of Abby & Libby, they’re leading away from the confessions. Deflection.

Defense’s tactics the entire time as been nothing more than smoke and mirrors.


jmo and spitballing - he's guilty

Tells me he has an amazing Defense Team who've done all they can to defend him despite the issues they faced in getting evidence admitted moo.

 

[Teche]

You, my fellow Websleuthers, are the most wonderful and compassionate people.

I did not lose family, although my daughter was trapped in Manhattan a mile away from the WTC.

I did lose friends, neighbors, and several firemen I knew, including the father of the boy my daughter was dating at the time, and my best friend’s brother who was an EMT.

It was a school day and we had hysterical students because they had parents who worked there, and parents and other relatives streamed in all day to take their kids home.

Very many New Yorkers lost people that day.

This act of terror was made possible by hatred armed with nothing but BOX CUTTERS.

So I strongly dispute that BOX CUTTERS weren’t sufficient to cut the throats of two young girls.

I thank you all from my heart, and anyone else I may have missed.

I can’t imagine your loss. Thank you for sharing. I will never forget.

 

[Willow Knight]

Does anyone know if once a verdict is reached, is the gag order lifted? Will families and attorneys (all case parties) be able to speak freely about the case, should they so choose?

IMO
I really hope so. The families have been strong, can only imagine how much they have had to hold in. They did a fantastic job in seeking justice for Abby and Libby. Sometimes a person just needs to vent, to correct mistruths, to speak of their pain.

If the families feel the need to speak, I will listen. Should they desire privacy and quiet I will respect that. They are so in my thoughts and love. One can only begin to appreciate the mental torture, pain, confusion, and anger they must have endured.

Bless them.

 

[photographer4]

“Well they’ve tailored their testimony and changed it from prior testimony - this smells like a win-at-any-cost mentality.”

—defense expert psychologist testifies she only considered about sixty pages of Wala’s notes, none of those pages containing confessions, because that was all the defense gave her to look at.
—though he had access to the original bullet and permission to perform his own tests, the defense’s ballistic expert only looked at photos of the bullet. He stated the reason for that was because that was all the defense attorneys asked him to do.
—defense team intern goes through hours and hours of prison video to put together a “day in the prison life of RA”, but chooses a couple of hours showing RA’s worse moments. He stated he had free reign from his bosses, but it was not a good look.

So, really?
The prosecution is the problem?

Edit: correcting poorly worded part

The Prosecution was so desperate the asked for an order for his google history -- DURING TRIAL. What earthly reason did they have for NOT seeking this in the nearly two years since he was in their prison??? And what did they find? He searched horror films. In October. Of 2022. LMAO.

 

[katydid23]

And how likely could you do it with a flimsy box cutter? Whenever I had to work with box cutters I always had to replace them bc of how flimsy they were. JMO.

They are NOT all flimsy. There are many upgraded box cutters available with longer, stronger blades.

https://www.wwlp.com/news/crime/womans-throat-cut-with-box-cutter-in-springfield-suspect-arrested/

Police: Woman's neck slashed with box cutter at Warren bar

Officers say as Amari Williamson was driving away from the bar, they found the suspected weapon, a box cutter, under her car.

www.wfmj.com

 

[JosieMae]

Did the jury ever see a photo of RA from 2017?

 

[Davemac1]

Maybe he didn't want the FBI to expose their mistakes? Maybe he never imagined it might ever get to trial and no one would ever know? Moo.

Unbelievably they had the guy on video and also his voice to boot.
Did LE decline the offer of help because they thought this would be an open and shut case and the suspect would almost definitely be recognised in a fairly short space of time?

 

[detectivewannab]

I predict the closing agreements will be over by 1 and we have a verdict by 5.

 

[GoodDayToYouSir]

It was a huge piece of evidence, but it was not something you could look at and immediately know who the killer is (like DNA).

The closest single piece of evidence we have to that here, is that cartridge. That’s in dispute though, and always will be.

Apologies if I missed it, but did the police ask RA in interviews whether he had ever gone up to the trails and bridge with his gun? I know he said that he didn’t have it on the day in question and that he took his gun when he went foraging for mushrooms or hunting.

That seems key to me. If RA has never been up to the crime scene with his gun , then that is pretty conclusive assuming the science on the casing is accepted.