GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
Hidden True Crime
Lawyer Lee
Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[MassGuy]

Delphi verdict: Richard Allen guilty on all counts.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856058422308798788

 

[Sillybilly]

Please continue discussion here.

 

[Andieinsyd]

I have a couple of lingering questions;
- as far as I can see, RA defence team did not put forward third party people AK and TK or RL. I personally thought that these third parties may have had a better chance of creating reasonable doubt than the “Odinist” third parties that the Defence team tried to use. Can the new defence now use this failed strategy on appeal in any way?
- to me the evidence from Dr Walla about the van was a very significant piece of evidence which continued to lock in the RA timeline. However I couldn’t get a good understanding of the LE? person on the stand at trial and also the FBI person who apparently had documented Brad Weber’s timeline of the day but that didn’t/couldn’t attend? It got a bit hazy for me - anyone got clarity on this?TIA

 

[INfisherman]

I have a couple of lingering questions;
- as far as I can see, RA defence team did not put forward third party people AK and TK or RL. I personally thought that these third parties may have had a better chance of creating reasonable doubt than the “Odinist” third parties that the Defence team tried to use. Can the new defence now use this failed strategy on appeal in any way?
- to me the evidence from Dr Walla about the van was a very significant piece of evidence which continued to lock in the RA timeline. However I couldn’t get a good understanding of the LE? person on the stand at trial and also the FBI person who apparently had documented Brad Weber’s timeline of the day but that didn’t/couldn’t attend? It got a bit hazy for me - anyone got clarity on this?TIA

Regarding SODDI, that will be up to the appellate court, if an appeal is even granted.

Brad Weber was the driver of the white van. His parents owned the property near the SE end of the MHB, also where Weber lives. BW testified that he arrived home at around 2:30 the day of the murders. The D tried to show Weber had somehow made a different statement previously & wanted the FBI agent to testify to that. The agent was working at campaigns in TX & was unable to attend the trial in person. The D submitted a motion for the agent to testify remotely, which JG denied. BW stuck to his story.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-witness-testimony-may-lend-legitimacy-to-richard-allens-prison-confession/

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-former-fire-chief-recalls-nighttime-search-for-girls-and-lack-of-sightings/

 

[Spartygirl]

I won’t speak for @Spartygirl but for me, I believe the intent was to get a girl on the bridge using the AS account as a ruse. That was the bait, so to speak. RA knew at least one would be there - walking with a purpose. KK did make the account & very well could have allowed others to use it or sold access to it. Just a theory & my own hunch, if you will. I just find it too convenient KK deleted a bunch of data from the 1 phone LE missed during their search & then RAs 2017 phone also disappeared. The evidence is gone or not found so just utter speculation.

MOO

I agree 1000%

 

[Andieinsyd]

Regarding SODDI, that will be up to the appellate court, if an appeal is even granted.

Brad Weber was the driver of the white van. His parents owned the property near the SE end of the MHB, also where Weber lives. BW testified that he arrived home at around 2:30 the day of the murders. The D tried to show Weber had somehow made a different statement previously & wanted the FBI agent to testify to that. The agent was working at campaigns in TX & was unable to attend the trial in person. The D submitted a motion for the agent to testify remotely, which JG denied. BW stuck to his story.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-witness-testimony-may-lend-legitimacy-to-richard-allens-prison-confession/

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-former-fire-chief-recalls-nighttime-search-for-girls-and-lack-of-sightings/

Thanks, good links. Looking forward to being able to read the trial transcripts at some point.

 

[mrjitty]

@gremlin444

I don't want to finger any individual outlet, just pointing out that for example the interviews with Holeman, while interesting, were classic softball.

I'd also note for example in this Kyla Russell interview, that Baldwin gives his 3rd version of the MW story, which is completely different to what was told to the Judge before he was removed from the case. Judge Gull noted this inconsistency in her ruling on the contempt.

Could we not expect Russell to note this, and ask Baldwin to account for it? Why were messages found in MWs icloud apparently from AB asking him to get publicity for the case?

 

[INfisherman]

@gremlin444

I don't want to finger any individual outlet, just pointing out that for example the interviews with Holeman, while interesting, were classic softball.

I'd also note for example in this Kyla Russell interview, that Baldwin gives his 3rd version of the MW story, which is completely different to what was told to the Judge before he was removed from the case. Judge Gull noted this inconsistency in her ruling on the contempt.

Could we not expect Russell to note this, and ask Baldwin to account for it? Why were messages found in MWs icloud apparently from AB asking him to get publicity for the case?

This just occurred to me Mr. J…

If MSM tries to corner the defense & catch them with inconsistencies or pushing on them too hard in regards to their theories and/or evidence, that will probably result in the supporters of the defense being turned off by that particular outlet or interviewer. No one wants fewer clicks or comments these days & I personally feel that has quite a bit to do with why they’re being interviewed with kid gloves. Folks like you & I are far less "noisy" than those who support their narratives & approach. Ad revenue helps out the media & money talks louder than the truth or justice these days.

Another thought is the team is likely screening all questions beforehand & refusing to discuss certain aspects of the case in order to keep control of the narrative & help keep their strategy low key until they know more about the appeal. From what I understood, they are still assisting with some of that portion.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Also to note - LL asks much better questions than Motta.

I didn't listen, but would have to agree in general that LL asks better questions than BM and actually allows her guests to speak. What a concept for hosting a Podcast when you have guests on.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I still find it absolutely crazy that Ricky wanted these lawyers and got them reinstated.

I wonder how him and his wife now feel with him facing the rest of his crappy life in jail.

It’s not like they were not completely incompetent from the get go, so to willingly get them back on his team shows you how utterly stupid he is.

MOO

I believe he was manipulated by R&B who professed their continued, undying devotion to him, the client. We saw how that turned out didn't we?

JMO

 

[Tealgrove]

I definitely believe he knew Libby would be out on that bridge that day. Unfortunately he ditched his phone and then over 5 years to catch him meant evidence was lost.

I think he was drinking and moody at his Mums house because he hadn’t fully made up his mind to go though with it at that stage.

IMO

Having known several alcoholics up close and personal, at some point, drinking becomes your sole purpose to the exclusion of all else.

RA not going to lunch with his family isn’t as big a deal really when you consider his habits.

He wanted to drink that day and bailed on lunch so he could do just that.

He clearly had other things on his mind that day. He went to the Bridge prepared to kill. Whether he knew they’d be there or not I still question. Letting go of KAK is hard but LE seems to have, so I guess I need to let go as well.

He drank, he prepared, and he went there purposely. Did he drink to get up the courage, or did he drink just because?

I’d love to know the state he was in when KA got home that day. Was he passed out, exhausted and drunk or was he wired for sound?

I don’t think we’ll ever know.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

This just occurred to me Mr. J…

If MSM tries to corner the defense & catch them with inconsistencies or pushing on them too hard in regards to their theories and/or evidence, that will probably result in the supporters of the defense being turned off by that particular outlet or interviewer. No one wants fewer clicks or comments these days & I personally feel that has quite a bit to do with why they’re being interviewed with kid gloves. Folks like you & I are far less "noisy" than those who support their narratives & approach. Ad revenue helps out the media & money talks louder than the truth or justice these days.

Another thought is the team is likely screening all questions beforehand & refusing to discuss certain aspects of the case in order to keep control of the narrative & help keep their strategy low key until they know more about the appeal. From what I understood, they are still assisting with some of that portion.

JMO

Baldwin stated on DD that he could/would be involved if the Appeals Process overturned RA's guilty verdict and the State had to re-try him. OMG - I know that won't happen, but the delusion of AB thinking this is just beyond words.

He looks like he aged 20 years, took a beating (rightfully so) by the Judge and SM in general on the leaking incident of Abby and Libby's CS photos to his good buddy MW. Maybe he is desperate enough to think he can salvage part of his reputation?

Umm, no, nope, nopers AB. Please, just go away quietly and try to reclaim what is left of your legal career. I don't think accused murderers are going to be ringing your phone off the hook, and I don't think you will be appointed as a PD on a murder case anytime soon either. You jumped the shark buddy, it's time to move on. For everyone's sake.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

Baldwin stated on DD that he could/would be involved if the Appeals Process overturned RA's guilty verdict and the State had to re-try him. OMG - I know that won't happen, but the delusion of AB thinking this is just beyond words.

He looks like he aged 20 years, took a beating (rightfully so) by the Judge and SM in general on the leaking incident of Abby and Libby's CS photos to his good buddy MW. Maybe he is desperate enough to think he can salvage part of his reputation?

Umm, no, nope, nopers AB. Please, just go away quietly and try to reclaim what is left of your legal career. I don't think accused murderers are going to be ringing your phone off the hook, and I don't think you will be appointed as a PD on a murder case anytime soon either. You jumped the shark buddy, it's time to move on. For everyone's sake.

JMO

They won’t & they can’t quietly go away. They need to keep the lies going until the appeals are exhausted. It’s their foundation & only hope of getting their client out of prison.

JMO

 

[Bekind89]

They won’t & they can’t quietly go away. They need to keep the lies going until the appeals are exhausted. It’s their foundation & only hope of getting their client out of prison.

JMO

Would some nice person here kindly explain to me why it is that the RA supporters criticize everyone in this case except the defense attorneys? They praise the DT team as if they walk on water but the DT utterly failed,IMHO, to give their client a competent defense.
They cry about the harsh treatment, akin to torture according to them, that poor little RA suffered at the hands of a corrupt prison system, corrupt judge, corrupt LE, yet they never answer me when I ask them why didn't his attorneys protect him if this occurred? How many times and ways are you supporters going to allow these attorneys to blame the judge for their mistakes and allow them to take zero responsibility.
Sorry to vent, but I believe my attempt to understand them has bruised my brain.

 

[INfisherman]

Would some nice person here kindly explain to me why it is that the RA supporters criticize everyone in this case except the defense attorneys? They praise the DT team as if they walk on water but the DT utterly failed,IMHO, to give their client a competent defense.
They cry about the harsh treatment, akin to torture according to them, that poor little RA suffered at the hands of a corrupt prison system, corrupt judge, corrupt LE, yet they never answer me when I ask them why didn't his attorneys protect him if this occurred? How many times and ways are you supporters going to allow these attorneys to blame the judge for their mistakes and allow them to take zero responsibility.
Sorry to vent, but I believe my attempt to understand them has bruised my brain.

IMO, you’re better off taking some Tylenol & just chalking it up to differences of opinion. Trying to understand why people believe certain things, not just in this particular case, is often an exercise in futility. I tend to agree with Holeman in that for some people the truth is occasionally just too boring when it comes to explaining criminal cases. Too many internet educated "lawyers" as well as citizens who feel the need to constantly police the police. Content creators are also partially responsible for some of the wild beliefs. Dolla bills, y’all, if you smell what I’m stepping in.

Breathe a sigh of relief knowing RA put himself on the bridge, lied about his time on the trails & admitted seeing the first group of girls who also saw him. No one else to point the finger at with those 3 facts.

 

[Bekind89]

IMO, you’re better off taking some Tylenol & just chalking it up to differences of opinion. Trying to understand why people believe certain things, not just in this particular case, is often an exercise in futility. I tend to agree with Holeman in that for some people the truth is occasionally just too boring when it comes to explaining criminal cases. Too many internet educated "lawyers" as well as citizens who feel the need to constantly police the police. Content creators are also partially responsible for some of the wild beliefs. Dolla bills, y’all, if you smell what I’m stepping in.

Breathe a sigh of relief knowing RA put himself on the bridge, lied about his time on the trails & admitted seeing the first group of girls who also saw him. No one else to point the finger at with those 3 facts.

Thank you and you are right. It is just disgusting to me how the defense attorneys acted in this case. The leaked crime scene photos, the cruel, baseless accusations against the victims family etc. and to see them praised for doing nothing more than spreading a ridiculous conspiracy theory and causing more unnecessary pain to the victims families just angers me. I hate to see bad behavior rewarded. I am old enough to remember when people who acted this way were shunned by polite society. I also remember when people didn't stan convicted child killers .
I miss those days.
Oh, well. I'm old and grumpy, I suppose ,lol.

 

[INfisherman]

Thank you and you are right. It is just disgusting to me how the defense attorneys acted in this case. The leaked crime scene photos, the cruel, baseless accusations against the victims family etc. and to see them praised for doing nothing more than spreading a ridiculous conspiracy theory and causing more unnecessary pain to the victims families just angers me. I hate to see bad behavior rewarded. I am old enough to remember when people who acted this way were shunned by polite society. I also remember when people didn't stan convicted child killers .
I miss those days.
Oh, well. I'm old and grumpy, I suppose ,lol.

Be happy you don’t live in the same town where AB & JA practice. It’s embarrassing.