Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #10 *Arrest*

[TootsieFootsie]

Police probe after wild mushroom deaths

A major police probe has been launched into the deaths of three elderly people who died after eating wild and poisonous mushrooms.

au.lifestyle.yahoo.com

One man still fighting for life.

Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3 Thread #4 Thread #5 Thread #6  Thread #7 Thread #8 Thread #9

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

IMPORTANT

Effective with Erin Patterson's arrest, sub judice is in effect and will be until a trial has concluded. For anyone not familiar with the judicial principle of sub judice, please review the following.

WS is based in the USA but we do try to manage the various discussions to comply with laws of other countries.

As this trial is in Australia, the case is under sub judice so please avoid anything that violates the following principles:

Basically anything that may prejudice the accused’s right to a fair trial
Any suggestion, opinion, or direct accusation that the accused is either guilty OR innocent
(i.e. the accused cannot be called "the killer"; use "the accused", "the alleged killer", or "the defendant")
A defendant’s previous history of any offences is off limits
Scandalizing the court (disparaging judges, lawyers, any officer of the Court) is off limits
Broadcasting anything about proceedings which happen in the jury's absence is off limits
Any non compliance with an Order of the court is off limits

Note in the event of an Appeal subsequent to verdict:
Appeals are usually heard by senior judges who are not likely to be influenced by the media, therefore responsible comment is usually considered acceptable once a trial has concluded, regardless of if there is going to be an appeal.

Posts that are determined to constitute a violation of sub judice will be removed. To avoid this, please review the following from the Victoria Law Reform Commission and post accordingly:

10. Sub judice contempt: restricting the publication of prejudicial information

 

[Sillybilly]

Please read the above Post #2 regarding sub judice and continue discussion here.

 

[SouthAussie]

This Australian Govt site says that you should be able to recognise a Death Cap - if you know anything about mushrooms, as Erin does.
It says the only mushroom that you could confuse it with is the Straw Mushroom, but even then there are distinct differences.


Could I confuse the Deathcap with anything else?

You shouldn’t confuse it with any of the ordinary field mushrooms (in the genus Agaricus), where the gills are pink at first but eventually turn brown. Mushrooms in the genus Agaricus also have a ring on the stem, but no volva at the base of the stem.

When the Deathcap is still very young, it is enclosed in a smooth, white skin. You could initially mistake this stage for an immature puffball, since many puffballs are white when young. However, while an immature puffball has solid white flesh inside, a young Deathcap will show the stem and gills.

If you have migrated from Asia, or are otherwise familiar with the Straw Mushroom, you could accidentally pick a Deathcap, thinking it is the harmless Straw Mushroom. In one Canberra case, three Laotians made this mistake and the same mistake has also been made in New Zealand and the USA.

Deathcap mushroom - Amanita phalloides

The Deathcap Mushroom - Amanita phalloides, identification, emergency phone number, one of several illustrated pages introducing Australian fungi.

www.anbg.gov.au

 

[MrJ]

It will be an interesting week of trial coverage, as it usually is. Come to think of it, does anyone know when the police's evidence will be laid out before the court?

 

[katydid23]

posted by Bats, last thread:

But weren't health officials preparing to treat the patients with death cap poisoning before they'd even spoken to Erin about the origin of the mushrooms?

Yes, the hospital DISCUSSED giving them the treatment, but they decided against giving them the antidote for Death Caps for the first 2 days because they were still testing their hypothesis that it was toxic mushrooms. They did not know for sure because Erin was telling them they were store bought mushrooms.

So the doctors postponed giving them the necessary treatment and it was not successful when they finally did so.

 

[Spectrix]

It will be an interesting week of trial coverage, as it usually is. Come to think of it, does anyone know when the police's evidence will be laid out before the court?

I don't think it's been reported / predicted.
Like you I'm looking forward to hearing evidence from the police detectives.
It's also likely that video recordings of Erin's questioning & interrogation will be shown to the court

 

[Salah11]

Life is so hectic I haven’t checked in recently.

Was there is anything major revealed last week in the trial?

 

[arrogantcat]

I think so too, powdered Deathcaps was always the plan, and that plan was formed months before the eventual lunch

The funny thing is, looking at the inature data it seems deathcap season started a couple of months before and was slowly winding down.

But the evidence says she travelled to known growing spots shortly before the lunch, and bought a dehydrator on the same day.

If she planned it so far in advance, wouldn’t she collect the mushrooms much earlier? It really seems her scheme was a bit slapdash.

 

[Spectrix]

Life is so hectic I haven’t checked in recently.

Was there is anything major revealed last week in the trial?

The most interesting testimony to me was from a toxicologist, confirmation that a whole uneaten Beef Wellington retrieved from Erin's bin had tested positive to amatoxins.
This suggests that there was a spare serving intended for Simon should he come to the lunch, or possibly drop in after bringing the kids back from the movies.
As we now know, Simon rudely refused to attend his own (alleged) murder.

We also heard testimony from a Child Support worker who interviewed Erin shortly after the poisonings.
Erin told her the usual (alleged) pork pies about the mushrooms coming from a Chinese grocer, and also tried to (allegedly) throw Simon under the bus by alleging that he was controlling and manipulative.

Also, a juror was dismissed for (allegedly) discussing the case with family and friends.

-
Edited to add allegedly all over the place to keep to keep things legal.

---

Monday, May 12 (Day 9)​

• Medical Testimony: Dr. Laura Muldoon and Dr. Varuna Ruggoo from Monash Hospital testified that Erin Patterson showed no clinical signs of liver toxicity or death cap mushroom poisoning during her hospital stay.
• Mushroom Expert: Fungi expert Dr. Thomas May discussed the challenges of identifying death cap mushrooms and noted their under-reporting in regional areas. He also highlighted the risks associated with using mushroom identification apps.
• Witness Observations: Friends of Patterson's children and a flight instructor testified that Patterson appeared normal after the lunch.

---

Tuesday, May 13 (Day 10)​

• Mushroom Foraging Evidence: It was revealed that death cap mushrooms had been spotted near Patterson's home in the months before the fatal lunch.
• Expert Testimony: Dr. May continued his testimony, emphasizing the difficulty in distinguishing death caps from edible mushrooms and the dangers of misidentification.

---

Wednesday, May 14 (Day 11)​

• Medical Records: Professor Andrew Bersten, an intensive care specialist, reviewed Patterson's medical records and found no evidence supporting her claim of a cancer diagnosis.
• Stool Sample Analysis: Tests on Patterson's stool sample showed no foreign pathogens, suggesting her symptoms were not due to a typical gastrointestinal infection.
• Dehydrator Evidence: Security footage was presented showing Patterson disposing of a food dehydrator, which later tested positive for death cap mushroom toxins.

---

Thursday, May 15 (Day 12)​

• Juror Dismissal: A juror was discharged after it was discovered he had discussed the case with family and friends, violating court instructions.
• Child Protection Testimony: A child protection worker testified that Patterson described her estranged husband, Simon Patterson, as emotionally abusive and controlling.
• Toxicology Findings: Forensic toxicologist Dr. Dimitri Gerostamoulos confirmed the presence of death cap mushroom toxins in the urine samples of victims Don Patterson and Ian Wilkinson.

---

Friday, May 16 (Day 13)​

• Forensic Evidence: Dr. Gerostamoulos continued his testimony, detailing the detection of death cap toxins in the beef Wellington and the dehydrator.
• Medical Testimony: Further medical experts discussed the effects of the toxins and the symptoms exhibited by the victims.

 

[Bats]

posted by Bats, last thread:


Yes, the hospital DISCUSSED giving them the treatment, but they decided against giving them the antidote for Death Caps for the first 2 days because they were still testing their hypothesis that it was toxic mushrooms. They did not know for sure because Erin was telling them they were store bought mushrooms.

So the doctors postponed giving them the necessary treatment and it was not successful when they finally did so.

Thanks @katydid23
I can't seem to find where it says that the doctors held off for 2 days before administering the antidote and that this was because Erin told them the wrong information.

They did not know for sure because Erin was telling them they were store bought mushrooms

Are you suggesting that the doctor wasn't administering an amanita antidote because the information at hand was that the mushrooms were bought from a store? Really?

 

[katydid23]

Thanks @katydid23
I can't seem to find where it says that the doctors held off for 2 days before administering the antidote and that this was because Erin told them the wrong information.


Are you suggesting that the doctor wasn't administering an amanita antidote because the information at hand was that the mushrooms were bought from a store? Really?

Yes, I will repost that information/brb

 

[katydid23]

Thanks @katydid23
I can't seem to find where it says that the doctors held off for 2 days before administering the antidote and that this was because Erin told them the wrong information.

Don and Gail went to the hospital late Saturday night, and were thought to have food poisoning. It took until Tuesday morning 6:50 am to began the antidote process. It was hours later before Ian and Heather received theirs]

If Erin told the truth the antidote could have been given earlier.


On SUNDAY @10:30 pm:

Dr Morgan says she texted the toxicology department, who ordered her to find out more about what was served at lunch.
Dr Morgan says the toxicologist on call told her that if it was a toxin poisoning, it was most likely due to the ingestion of the amanita phalloides (death cap mushroom) toxin
[SO SUN NIGHT 10:30 PM---FIRST REFERENCE TO DEATH CAPS]


MONDAY MORNING:

Hospital refrains from administering antidote

As advised by toxicologists, Don was put onto a range of treatments including N-acetylcysteine (NAC), a liver-protecting drug used in cases of paracetemol overdose.

However, the hospital did not immediately administer silibinin, an antidote to death cap mushrooms.

"At that time we had no evidence that anyone else was unwell, or that anyone else was experiencing the metabolic acidosis," she tells the court.

Due to her symptoms and normal readings on VBG tests, Gail was not given as intensive medical care as Don, with doctors believing her illness to be food poisoning.

In the early hours of the morning, Dr Morgan contacted Leongatha Hospital and asked them to conduct VBG tests on Ian and Heather Wilkinson.

[SO THEY HELD OFF FROM GIVING THE DEATH CAP ANTIDOTE BECAUSE THEY HAD NO PROOF YET IT WAS POISONING FROM DEATH CAPS]----THIS IS 2 DAYS AFTER THE LUNCH]

They had no proof because Erin was still lying and misleading them.

Are you suggesting that the doctor wasn't administering an amanita antidote because the information at hand was that the mushrooms were bought from a store? Really?

The toxologists were trying hard to verify that the patients ate death caps. They asked Erin if she picked wild mushrooms and she denied it. She kept saying they were store bought. It delayed the process of getting the right antidote to her victims in time.

​

Hours later, when the liver tests results for Don and Gail showed deep declines, they decided to start the antidotes:

At 6.50am the next morning, after conversations with the toxicology department, it was suggested that doctors begin administering the antidote silibinin and the antibiotic rifampicin.

1. Don Patterson had extremely abnormal test readings when admitted to hospital, while Gail initially showed much milder signs of illness. The couple were put on treatments to protect their liver, but medical staff initially held back from administering a special antidote for death cap poisoning due to lack of evidence.

Dying lunch guest's 'extremely abnormal' blood test results raised hospital alarm, court hears — as it happened

Ms Patterson is accused of murdering three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington laced with poisonous death cap mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Salah11]

Thanks for the update and god that’s awful to hear there was a whole uneaten pie likely made for Simon.

 

[Bats]

"At that time we had no evidence that anyone else was unwell, or that anyone else was experiencing the metabolic acidosis," she tells the court

Didn't you say "they didn't know for sure because Erin was telling them she used store bought mushrooms"? This is is quite different to concluding whether the patients were experiencing "metabolic acidosis" as the reason for not administering an antidote.

It seems clear to me that the administering of an amanita poisioning antidote was mainly based on liver and blood testing (which they still needed to do whether they knew the mushrooms were foraged or not).

but medical staff initially held back from administering a special antidote for death cap poisoning due to lack of evidence

...this is the lack of evidence they are referring to above...
"At that time we had no evidence that anyone else was unwell, or that anyone else was experiencing the metabolic acidosis," she tells the court.

I think I'll leave it at that and am happy to agree to disagree @katydid23

 

[katydid23]

Didn't you say "they didn't know for sure because Erin was telling them she used store bought mushrooms"? This is is quite different to concluding whether the patients were experiencing "metabolic acidosis" as the reason for not administering an antidote.

It seems clear to me that the administering of an amanita poisioning antidote was mainly based on liver and blood testing (which they still needed to do whether they knew the mushrooms were foraged or not).


...this is the lack of evidence they are referring to above...
"At that time we had no evidence that anyone else was unwell, or that anyone else was experiencing the metabolic acidosis," she tells the court.

I think I'll leave it at that and am happy to agree to disagree @katydid23

Yes, by Tuesday morning they got liver damage test results back. If she had spoken up earlier it wouldn't have had to get that bad.

And they continued to question her and went to a lot of trouble to go pick through her bins and send a taxi over with the leftovers. So they were still interested in investigating the actual source of the toxins.

She could have told the doctors about the mushrooms on Sunday morning and probably saved their lives. IMO

 

[Spectrix]

Didn't you say "they didn't know for sure because Erin was telling them she used store bought mushrooms"? This is is quite different to concluding whether the patients were experiencing "metabolic acidosis" as the reason for not administering an antidote.

It seems clear to me that the administering of an amanita poisioning antidote was mainly based on liver and blood testing (which they still needed to do whether they knew the mushrooms were foraged or not).


...this is the lack of evidence they are referring to above...
"At that time we had no evidence that anyone else was unwell, or that anyone else was experiencing the metabolic acidosis," she tells the court.

I think I'll leave it at that and am happy to agree to disagree @katydid23

The issue is that they didn't start treatment earlier because no one except Erin knew that the mushrooms were foraged.

The is no risk of Amatoxin Poisonings with mushrooms from supermarket or Chinese grocers because Commercial mushrooms are grown in huge warehouses. Deathcaps cannot be propagated because they rely on the roots of Oak trees.

Copying this over from the previous thread -
It's been reported that Erin was an experienced forager and that the family foraged together:

A family friend reported that Erin Patterson was known to be good at foraging wild mushrooms, and that the Patterson family would “pick mushrooms together each year when they were in season”

If it wasn't intentional, I imagine she would have described to her guests how she'd put so much effort into foraging for local mushrooms for the dish. There'd be no reason to hide it, her family would be excited about eating the locally hand picked delights.
Likewise, when the guests presented to hospital the morning after the lunch, they'd have reported to hospital staff that there were locally foraged mushrooms in the dish.

As Deathcaps are known to grow locally in the area (and cannot be cultivated), then amatoxin poisoning from foraged mushrooms would be seen as an immediate possibility - it wouldn't require waiting to hear Erin's lies about where the mushrooms came from and they'd be able to begin preventative treatment in case amatoxins had been ingested, instead of waiting for signs of metabolic acidosis and starting the treatment WAY too late.

Early treatment is critical, that's why - As soon as amatoxin was suggested by the toxicologist as a possibility - they wanted to immediately start the kids on preventative liver treatment - even though they didn't have symptoms.

 

[Cartie]

If this was an accident and she had no idea they were dcm, what dried mushrooms was she using for sprinkling in all the kids stuff.
That would make them even more lucky to of not been poisoned, once from the leftovers and then the sneaky hiding in their food.

 

[Spectrix]

If this was an accident and she had no idea they were dcm, what dried mushrooms was she using for sprinkling in all the kids stuff.
That would make them even more lucky to of not been poisoned, once from the leftovers and then the sneaky hiding in their food.

That's a good point. Now it's been suggested that she hadn't bought any dried mushrooms, she must have been dehydrating edible foraged or shop mushrooms for the kids. It's alleged that she visited one of the deathcap locations the day after it was posted on iNaturalist, and bought the dehydrator the same day. She must have dehydrated the deathcaps pretty soon after that because they'd barely last a week in the fridge. So why did she keep those aside instead of hiding them in the muffins for the kids?

It's also kind of gross that it appears she didn't clean the dehydrator very well. The toxicologist reported that some "vegetable matter" on the dehydrator had tested positive for amatoxin. That makes it sound like more than just trace elements.

Perhaps @Detechtive can chime in if she knows what stage Erin was posting about dehydrating mushrooms on the crime group.

 

[Salah11]

I really want to see her police interviews and her behavior in them.