Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #11 *Arrest*

[Yh5r]

Can the State call the son to identify himself in the Subway video?

The Defense is insulting the jury's intelligence IMO.

JMO

Yes discrediting that was odd.

But can anyone shed light on why the subway CCTV was relevant? I know she was absent for 11 minutes while her son was ordering food but what are they alleging she was doing in that time?

 

[katydid23]

The act of using Death Cap mushrooms does not prove intent? Yet, she specifically searched for Death Cap mushrooms on her computer and looked at photos and locations of Death Caps on the iNaturalist website...

Good point.

Yes discrediting that was odd.

But can anyone shed light on why the subway CCTV was relevant? I know she was absent for 11 minutes while her son was ordering food but what are they alleging she was doing in that time?

I've been trying to think on that.

We know that this trip was the very first time that EP was in a vehicle and away from her home since the lunch ended, earlier that day.

So IF she had some things she wanted to toss out this would be her first and best chance. But I'm not sure what those things are.

I'm wondering if during Closings, the P will throw a possible scenario out there---like ' she smashed phone A and tossed it nto a dumpster'. Or she threw out the remaining BW she had reserved for Simon' ???

 

[JBowie]

This message just points more to the motive IMO - there is no doubt in my mind that EP loved her in laws at one point.

The alternative viewpoint is that EP has gone through life alienating people and thereby lacks any true friends. Her only 'friends' appear to be people that she communicated with online.

I have her pegged as a narcissist and thus will play nice to people as long as they serve her purpose. Narcissists take instant offence at what they believe to be sleights -- real or imagined -- against them and are known to harbour grudges for long periods, and to seek revenge.

At some point it is my belief that EP's in-laws got on her wrong side, probably by siding with, or appearing to side with, SP over her on a number of issues. Her foul-worded posts point to that, IMO.

 

[Kemug]

So no "character witnesses"? Or does that only apply to some alleged crimes, and not others?

Replying to myself - her late parents-in-law would probably have been kind enough to testify to her good character, but as it is . . .

 

[Baby baby Jane]

And

Good point.

I've been trying to think on that.

We know that this trip was the very first time that EP was in a vehicle and away from her home since the lunch ended, earlier that day.

So IF she had some things she wanted to toss out this would be her first and best chance. But I'm not sure what those things are.

I'm wondering if during Closings, the P will throw a possible scenario out there---like ' she smashed phone A and tossed it nto a dumpster'. Or she threw out the remaining BW she had reserved for Simon' ???

and why drive to subway (for low quality food) for dinner when you have the leftovers of the beautiful & expensive beef Wellington ??

 

[mamamama9873]

And

and why drive to subway (for low quality food) for dinner when you have the leftovers of the beautiful & expensive beef Wellington ??

Only the son ate something from Subway to my understanding. Teens are funny with the food they like and I could image the son being keener to eat Subway instead of Beef Wellington

 

[SouthAussie]

Can the State call the son to identify himself in the Subway video?

The Defense is insulting the jury's intelligence IMO.

JMO

The jury should (hopefully) remember that Simon testified that Erin told him she took their son to Subway that evening.

And the defence wasn't suggesting they didn't go to Subway. The defence (imo) was just trying to discredit Eppingstall in a senseless way.
Maybe trying to suggest that Erin didn't drive off for 11 minutes - without saying exactly that, because it likely wouldn't be true.


Earlier in the trial, Simon Patterson said his estranged wife told him she had taken their son to Subway the evening after the lunch for dinner but didn’t leave the car because she was worried she may have an accident.

“We suggest to you that’s not (the boy’s name) getting out of the car,” the barrister said.

“To be clear we’re not suggesting there wasn’t a visit.”

“Just that I got the wrong one,” Constable Eppingstall finished.

Constable Eppingstall did not concede that the boy pictured in the Subway CCTV was not Ms Patterson’s son.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-crowns-final-witness-detective-leading-senior-constable-stephen-eppingstall-to-continue-evidence/news-story/7411526b4c38803eb98b4449a48bd586

 

[MrJ]

I don't have sympathy for EP whatever the outcome of the trial is due to several of her actions, and again I can't diagnose her as I'm not a psychologist, but I do think that if she is a covert and vulnerable narcissist, I do feel sad in that what an isolated existence that must be where your main friends are in a true crime group chat. It's no way to live if she is angered by the slightest pushback or criticism she gets. IMO

 

[Megnut]

And

and why drive to subway (for low quality food) for dinner when you have the leftovers of the beautiful & expensive beef Wellington ??

Oh, but imagine if Simon had left a minor at a restaurant, oh, the vitriole from Erin....

I dare say I bet she'd never done any such thing any other time... so what was she off doing that she needed to do alone, sans witness?

Super secret errand.

11 minutes. What's 5 minutes away? It must have been pressing.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Super secret errand.

11 minutes. What's 5 minutes away? It must have been pressing.

JMO

Their house is 4 mins away. Maybe there was something(s) she wanted to quickly remove from view, or get out of the reach of the kids. Like contaminated grey lunch plates and contaminated cutlery.

(Subway is across the road from McDonalds)
Google Maps

 

[Megnut]

Their house is 4 mins away. Maybe there was something(s) she wanted to quickly remove from view, or get out of the reach of the kids. Like contaminated grey lunch plates and contaminated cutlery.

(Subway is across the road from McDonalds)
Google Maps

That makes perfect sense!

 

[Spectrix]

Their house is 4 mins away. Maybe there was something(s) she wanted to quickly remove from view, or get out of the reach of the kids. Like contaminated grey lunch plates and contaminated cutlery.

(Subway is across the road from McDonalds)
Google Maps

Was she disposing of evidence, or couldn't drive more than 4 minutes without stopping for a snack?

 

[ch_13]

So, the defense has been trying to poke holes in some of the government's claims:

• That Erin didn't pick the death caps at the time/place the prosecution alleges
• That Erin actually did buy mushrooms at an Asian store, there's just no record of it
• That Erin didn't tell her guests she had cancer, only that she was worried she could have it
• That Erin did fall ill from the mushrooms, just less severely than her guests

But I'm struggling a bit to put these defense assertions into context. Maybe we'll get a more definitive account before they rest, but at this point I'm still unsure what the defense believes actually occurred.

Specifically I'd like to know why she had the guests over for lunch that day. How did the death caps end up in the food? And how did Erin come to be so relatively unharmed with no discernible organ damage?

 

[Megnut]

It's taking all my willpower to stop myself from saying maybe she had to stop to put a cork in it.

 

[Megnut]

Timelinewise, it fits with her going back home. She needed her son out of the house for some reason. I wonder what she told him. Drops him off and says....?

I keep wondering, if they weren't tipped to mushrooms in the first place, would they have ultimately isolated the Death Cap toxin, would it have been discoverable later?

Did it have allure as a vanishing poison?

JMO

 

[Spectrix]

Specifically I'd like to know why she had the guests over for lunch that day. How did the death caps end up in the food? And how did Erin come to be so relatively unharmed with no discernible organ damage?

I don't think we're likely to hear any kind of explanation.

It appears as if Erin has executed an endless list of suspicious actions & inactions, and most of those simply can't be explained in any rational way that doesn't point towards guilt.

All the defence can do is to attempt to poke some holes in that evidence.

 

[MsMarple]

What’s so irritating is how Erin claimed she panicked to explain her lies. Okay, even though it’s pretty disgusting that her panic took priority over a desire to share as much as possible in order to get help for her loved ones who lay dying in the hospital, maybe it was true.

But then days later she doubled down on the lies by releasing that ridiculous statement: "I am now wanting to clear up the record because I have become extremely stressed and overwhelmed by the deaths of my loved ones.”

IMO that defines hubris and manipulation more than panic. It was a selfish, self serving load of horse manure designed to make herself a victim. The locals are illiterate, her husband is controlling, her in-laws don’t support her. Always a victim. Boo hoo hoo.

I sincerely hope the jury will be able to sort out the lies from the facts. I don’t envy them.

 

[Megnut]

Let's say she had a bumper crop of dehydrated mushrooms, that just happened to smell nasty, which she believed were nontoxic. Having carefully studied what Death Caps look like, in order to avoid them.

She wants to make a carbonara... but thinks her smelly mushrooms will smell it up too badly to serve.

So she pivots to BW. But then goes grocery shopping where she overbuys fresh, nonstinky mushrooms. Far more than the dish requires. Plus about a lifetime supply of pastry. Why???? To make practice batches?

With all those fresh mushrooms, why is she adding stanky mushrooms at all????

To use them up?

So how then, if it was all accidental, did four pastries contain toxic mushrooms but hers magically did not?

Riddle me that, Erin.

JMO

 

[mamamama9873]

Let's say she had a bumper crop of dehydrated mushrooms, that just happened to smell nasty, which she believed were nontoxic. Having carefully studied what Death Caps look like, in order to avoid them.

She wants to make a carbonara... but thinks her smelly mushrooms will smell it up too badly to serve.

So she pivots to BW. But then goes grocery shopping where she overbuys fresh, nonstinky mushrooms. Far more than the dish requires. Plus about a lifetime supply of pastry. Why???? To make practice batches?

With all those fresh mushrooms, why is she adding stanky mushrooms at all????

To use them up?

So how then, if it was all accidental, did four pastries contain toxic mushrooms but hers magically did not?

Riddle me that, Erin.

JMO

This is what it comes down to IMO

The “using them up” reasoning could even work along the lines of people who don’t want to waste any food. However this doesn’t fit in with her buying huge quantities of food for the one beef Wellington lunch, nor the disposing of the beef Wellington into the bin (she could have given leftovers to her dog or frozen an untouched portion).

Regardless, the main point remains - why did she not get anywhere near as sick as any of the guests ( IMO allegedly having diarrhoea while still being able to go on a long drive and drink coffee is in stark contrast to the symptoms the lunch guests suffered from).

 

[katydid23]

What’s so irritating is how Erin claimed she panicked to explain her lies. Okay, even though it’s pretty disgusting that her panic took priority over a desire to share as much as possible in order to get help for her loved ones who lay dying in the hospital, maybe it was true.

But then days later she doubled down on the lies by releasing that ridiculous statement: "I am now wanting to clear up the record because I have become extremely stressed and overwhelmed by the deaths of my loved ones.”

IMO that defines hubris and manipulation more than panic. It was a selfish, self serving load of horse manure designed to make herself a victim. The locals are illiterate, her husband is controlling, her in-laws don’t support her. Always a victim. Boo hoo hoo.

I sincerely hope the jury will be able to sort out the lies from the facts. I don’t envy them.

Oh, that reminds me----did the P ever play that video of her public statement? I don't think they did. Usually that would be admissible but maybe the D got it suppressed somehow?