Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #11 *Arrest*

[katydid23]

I think it’s because she said she was sick that night, but she was driving around at Subway.

Also I think it shows the son ate subway for dinner, not leftovers.

But I think she always had asserted that she fed both kids the leftovers on Sunday night, not Saturday night because her daughter was not home for dinner Saturday night---she was at Simon's.

 

[BreakingNews]

If the jury isn’t supposed to consider Erin’s post-meal actions, then why wouldn’t it have been excluded from the trial in the first place?

I can’t speak to Australian law, but in the U.S. the admissibility of evidence would have been covered in pre-trial motions. It seems backwards (not to mention a waste of time) to allow a jury to hear evidence and then tell them to ignore it.

It's the same here in Aus. The pretrial is to decide what is agreed upon and to decide what is allowed in the trial. But things still pop up during the trial. The jury is sent out while the legal eagles talk with the judge.

 

[Megnut]

I'm not saying Erin is one, but I've known some ones who have answers for everything, and it's the ease and speed of their answers that lend to initial believe, but when held ip to the light of reason, fall apart fast.

She got rid of the dehydrator because she panicked? She panicked because Simon supposedly asked her if she used it to poison the victims?

Um. Wouldn't you produce the dehydrator? To show you'd done no such thing?

Wouldn't you answer every question asked of you by hospital staff and the health department, adding every bit of additional information that might be helpful? Wouldn't you prioritize those conversations?

She wanted Simon to drive her to the hospital and yet she could drive over hill and dale without complication, apparently successful in managing her explosive diarrhea by sitting on her bum, which is not a solution most people would trust. In light colored knickers, no less.

Doesn't want the children pulled from school because it would be too upsetting for them.

She must have been awfully confident no toxin touched their lips. And how could she? How could she have that confidence?

Would you dine at a restaurant that even just one time cooked with death cap mushrooms? How could she be certain the children hadn't ingested a single spore? Unless somehow she monitored the segregation of ingredients? One set of contaminated BW. One set uncontaminated, fin which she must magically have drawn the BW portion she served herself and the unassembled version she served the children. That's some remarkable luck.

JMO

 

[Puzzles]

-----Maybe they will admit that^^^ and say she was worried she had accidentally poisoned her guests, but that they cannot be sure if she really did---maybe it was the Asian mushrooms that were toxic, not her foraged ones?

So if there is reasonable doubt that she was the source of the toxic ones, her Defense will say she should be found not guilty.

SBBM

I doubt reasonable juror...

 

[Spectrix]

She wanted Simon to drive her to the hospital and yet she could drive over hill and dale without complication, apparently successful in managing her explosive diarrhea by sitting on her bum, which is not a solution most people would trust. In light colored knickers, no less.

If the seat of Erin's car is - as she suggests - some sort of magical cork which prevents her from sharting herself during the journey, one has to wonder what she plans to do when she inevitably reaches home and needs to exit the vehicle?

 

[Megnut]

I think Erin had curated a family of people who accepted her explanations without pressing (likely to keep the peace or from pure exhaustion).

I think her text messages reveal what happens when she's challenged. When new stories make even less sense, she gets angry at the people who push back.

Simon was correct to list them as separated but look at how she gaslit into him, making him wrong for doing the right thing.

In-laws staying out of marital issues is wise.

Her public statement is four paragraphs of words about making a statement, without ever really making one.

Knowing her guests, including Simon's parents, were deathly ill, she tried to make him choose her over them. Thankfully he chose right and left her to cork her way to the hospital while he focused on the four actual emergencies.

JMO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

What jurors get to see, (sad we don’t) is Erin’s demeanor, facial expressions and subtle changes in body language during testimony from family, and the professionals with whom she interacted. I wonder how she is perceived in court.

 

[MsMarple]

What jurors get to see, (sad we don’t) is Erin’s demeanor, facial expressions and subtle changes in body language during testimony from family, and the professionals with whom she interacted. I wonder how she is perceived in court.

I wonder what the jurors thought about that 12 minute video interview Erin had with LE. Will they believe the defense’s argument that she lied so many times because she panicked? That “everyone reacts differently?”

 

[SouthAussie]

What jurors get to see, (sad we don’t) is Erin’s demeanor, facial expressions and subtle changes in body language during testimony from family, and the professionals with whom she interacted. I wonder how she is perceived in court.

While true, it would be difficult for the jurors to keep a close eye on her reactions. Just due to the positioning of the accused at the rear of the court in the dock. And everyone else at the front of the court. Especially if the jurors are closely watching the evidence and whoever is testifying (as they should).

We posted the layout of the Morwell courtroom further back in the threads. (ETA: see pic in the next post)


At the back of the room is the court dock and that's where Erin Patterson sits.
In front of the dock are about three rows of seats. The media tend to take up one of the back rows right in front of Erin, which is rather awkward when people turn around to see Erin's reactions to things.

Erin Patterson's phone recorded in areas near death caps, court hears — as it happened

More witnesses will give testimony at Erin Patterson's murder trial at the Latrobe Valley Law Courts in Morwell. She accused of murdering three relatives by serving them a beef Wellington meal that contained poisonous mushrooms. Follow the trial in our live blog.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SouthAussie]

This is what the Morwell courtroom looks like. The photo would have been taken from the dock, where Erin sits. The jury could see her by looking to their left, but would have to take their eyes off the action to do so.

And the court observers would have to turn completely around to see Erin and her reactions.

Latrobe Valley Magistrates' Court

www.mcv.vic.gov.au

 

[Deleted member 363451]

The most common answer I have seen in true crime books is ... "my lawyer has advised me against taking a polygraph test".

imo

"I can't believe it, I just can't believe it".

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I think they are trying to create a narrative that is kind of loose and flexible.
It seems to be something like :

---she happened to be out in nature, hiking one day last spring, and she came upon some fresh mushrooms. So she collected them. She didn't serve them fresh but decided to dehydrate them and save them for future use.

---she also bought some mushrooms in an Asian market, although she can't remember where it was, but again, she dehydrated them for longer shelf life.

---Apparently one of these tins of dried mushrooms smelled funny, but we don't know whether it was the foraged ones or the Asian market ones.

----Months later while preparing her 6 individual Beef Wellingtons, she decided to use one of the two groups of dried mushrooms. We have not been told which tin of shrooms she used for the luncheon. I guess that is up for debate.

--- She began to feel dizzy and have diarrhoea the night of the luncheon, but she did not know why.
Then when she realised her 4 lunch guests were hospitalised, she panicked and hurried home to tip the dehydrator because?

----Was it because she didn't want anyone to know she had dehydrated some foraged mushrooms?

-----Maybe they will admit that^^^ and say she was worried she had accidentally poisoned her guests, but that they cannot be sure if she really did---maybe it was the Asian mushrooms that were toxic, not her foraged ones?

So if there is reasonable doubt that she was the source of the toxic ones, her Defense will say she should be found not guilty.

But it's been established that Asian Grocery stores do not sell Death Caps. They don't grow in Asia.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

This is what the Morwell courtroom looks like. The photo would have been taken from the dock, where Erin sits. The jury could see her by looking to their left, but would have to take their eyes off the action to do so.

And the court observers would have to turn completely around to see Erin and her reactions.

View attachment 590376

Latrobe Valley Magistrates' Court

www.mcv.vic.gov.au

Is that unusual to have the accused sitting right at the back of the court room?

 

[Scuffy35]

But it's been established that Asian Grocery stores do not sell Death Caps. They don't grow in Asia.

They do grow in some Asian countries from what I have heard. Where have you seen it established that they don't?

[EDIT]

"In China, almost 800 deaths and 40,000 illnesses from consuming death caps were reported in the decade to 2020. The mushroom – Amanita phalloides – is commonly found in the southern provinces of Yunnan, Sichuan and Guangdong."

Scientists may have found an antidote for the world’s deadliest mushroom

Study finds that a medical dye can reduce the toxicity of death caps, which cause 90 per cent of mushroom-related fatalities worldwide.

www.scmp.com

 

[Parker Knoll]

I think the dock is actually to the left of the photo with the dual microphones.
Opposite the jury.

 

[JBowie]

I think the dock is actually to the left of the photo with the dual microphones.
Opposite the jury.

That would be the witness stand. The dock is at the rear, from where the photo was taken.

Journalists have commented that they have to turn around to look at the accused.

 

[JBowie]

Is that unusual to have the accused sitting right at the back of the court room?

There are various styles of court layout. Dock at the back is probably from the early British tradition.

I guess it also depends on the shape of the room to start with. This is quite a small courtroom; not built for a trial with an international following.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Ahh - sorry yes I understand the layout now.
How peculiar to have the defendant at the back of the court to only ever come forward when they took to the witness stand.
As you say I doubt they could have envisaged a trial like this on their doorstep with the world watching on.

 

[Warshawski]

Here’s an account of Erin’s 21 minute interview with LE:

Erin Patterson given voice as interview with police fills in some blanks: week five in court

As much as any moment, the video shown to the Victorian supreme court helped give the murder accused shape after weeks of silence

www.theguardian.com

It’s enough to raise your blood pressure. For example:

[Erin] “Because I do want to know what happened … so I’ve given them as much information as they’ve asked for and offered up all the food and all the information about where the food came from.”

Eppingstall went on to ask Patterson if she had ever foraged for mushrooms or owned a dehydrator.

“Obviously, we’ve got concerns in relation to these mushrooms and where they’ve come from,” he said.

“Mm,” Patterson responded.

“OK. Is that something you’ve done in the past, foraging for mushrooms?”

“Never.”

“Or anything like that? Never?”

“Never.”

IMO she’s a very accomplished liar. … to the Police face she insists Never has she foraged for mushrooms !
Then Lo & behold, somewhere along the line her defence team has convinced her that she needs to fess up about some of her lies, so they opened the trial by clearing the air in saying :
she Did Lie about having foraged for mushrooms
she Did Lie about having & disposing of a dehydrator
she Did Lie about having cancer.

This is quite a well written article: Murder allegations, lies and the hazards of mushrooming - South Gippsland Sentinel Times

All my opinion.

 

[JBowie]

Ahh - sorry yes I understand the layout now.
How peculiar to have the defendant at the back of the court to only ever come forward when they took to the witness stand.
As you say I doubt they could have envisaged a trial like this on their doorstep with the world watching on.

Another consideration is guarding of the prisoners. In some court buildings (such as the Downing Centre in Sydney) there are separate passages for moving prisoners between prison vans and courtrooms.