Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #13 *Arrest*

[JBowie]

'Are you making this up as you go along Ms Patterson?' Dr Rogers asked.
'No,' Patterson replied. (Omitting: 'I have rehearsed it all for weeks.')

 

[Jake18]

She sure is and as I said above, I believe that Dr Rogers is getting under her skin so that the jury can see the real EP.

Which is where Erin is just being stupid. She’s decided she’s in some sort of battle with Dr Rogers and is being obstreperous and oppositional in order to “win”.

But the jury, in order to agree her narrative is reasonable, need to feel that she’s taken them into their confidence.

Dr Rogers is probably the only person who’s challenged her - not because Erin is brilliant but because arguing or disagreeing with someone like Erin is a drawn-out, fruitless exercise.

 

[L_B]

"Patterson denied this and claimed she paused because she thought Simon had made a sarcastic comment.
'"I'm glad you're well enough to drive to Phillip Island", he did it in a really sarcastic tone,' she said 'I remember the sarcasm, it was off-putting.'



Awww, Here we go. ^^^^^.....there is a little leakage, a little slip on her part, revealing her anger towards Simon. She described his comments to her as being in a 'really sarcastic tone' and it was 'off putting.'

And she was discussing the urgent situation of them picking up their children to come quickly for possible life/death medical treatment ....and she was focused upon Simon's off putting sarcastic tone?

That was just a tiny peek into her resentment/anger, IMO.

His parents, aunt and uncle are all in the hospital very sick, and getting sicker, I don't blame him to make a snide remark given the circumstances.

Also your use of the work leakage made me think of the Crime Analyst podcast, I wonder what she would think of Erin?

 

[JBowie]

Simon undoubtedly saved his own life by not attending that meal.

Just a pity he didn't warn the others of his concerns. I guess that has crossed his mind more than once since.

 

[MsMarple]

26 May, 7:48pm

Detective asked to clarify the plates​

By Joseph Dunstan​

The court is now shown a photo of different plates, stacked in a drawer
At the back of the drawer are four black-coloured plates. The bottom two appear to have a red surface on the top of them (or the "eating surface" as Sergeant Farrell dubs it).

The bottom one has a small chip on the edge.

Mr Mandy puts to Sergeant Farrell that the plates are "side plates, not dinner plates". The detective says it's hard to say without anything there for comparison.

We're reminded that these photos are stills from the video taken by a videographer moving through the scene.

Sergeant Farrell is not aware of any more detailed footage being captured showing these plates.

26 May, 7:44pm

Details of the plates​

By Joseph Dunstan​

The court is shown the photos of plates in the dishwasher again, which Sergeant Farrell agrees includes smaller and larger plates.

From left to right, we see a large white plate, a similarly large plate that is red on top and black on the bottom, then a smaller version of that red-and-black plate.

Three more plates sit beside it, including two in the middle where Sergeant Farrell says it's harder to tell the exact colour on the back.

Video of Erin Patterson's police interview played to murder trial jury — as it happened

Erin Patterson has pleaded not guilty to murdering her estranged husband's parents and his aunt by feeding them poisonous death cap mushrooms in July 2023. Follow the evidence as it happened.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Shortfusepsb]

IMO, Mandy went into this with his eyes wide open knowing full well that she is full of manure.

A consultant once told me that when he takes on hopeless case clients he frequently looks at pictures of his bank to remind him of the reason he does it.

It’s Mandy’s role as a Silk to defend his client’s right to a fair legal process — that’s where his real skill lies. It’s not necessarily about getting her acquitted or trying to deny the facts. His job isn’t to believe her, or even to coach her strategically to win when she is guilty. It’s to ensure the trial is fair, lawful, and properly tested.

He’s likely shaking his head at her as a person, just like the rest of us. But his presence in that courtroom isn’t about sympathy. It’s about safeguarding the integrity of the justice system. He’s there with a sharp eye, sharp ear, and sharp mind to make sure her legal rights are upheld, no matter how messy the case is.

His reward isn’t necessarily in winning the case. It’s in doing his role properly, and knowing he stood firm on principle, not popularity.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

My point remains that I find it odd that a homeowner with two children had only six plates, mismatched or not.

For what it's worth... I am a female home owner of Erin's vintage and also have 2 kids, although grown up now. There's currently 3 of us living here. I own a set of about 8 matching dinner plates, but most have small chips in them. Could I afford to throw them out and buy more, a matching complete set of 8+? Absolutely, but these are fine and still fit for purpose. I also don't entertain a lot, and if I do have bigger gatherings, I tend to use paper plates. I'll purchase a matching set of paper plates, bowls, cups and napkins so at least everything is matching and the table looks nice. My gatherings are always casual and mainly family.

For the record, I am a fully functioning, financially stable woman, who AFAIK, has never been accused of murdering 3 people who I fed off my dinner set and/or paper plates.

 

[JBowie]

It’s Mandy’s role as a Silk to defend his client’s right to a fair legal process

Yep, and to make sure that he'll be paid, too. That's a barrister's life.

 

[katydid23]

"In my book, diarrhoea is liquid ... loose stools are loose stools," Ms Patterson begins.

She references the Bristol Stool Chart, telling the crown prosecutor that the measurement tool illustrates a spectrum of firmness to describe stools.

"Loose stools are somewhere along the line to diarrhoea but not quite there yet," she says.

Well, there you have it. EP is actually an expert on talking !!

Sounds like she did her research. She knew she'd be interrogated on the fascinating subject.

And I bet when she referenced the Bristol Stool Chart she was very proud of herself. She thought she was winning.

 

[Jake18]

Sounds like she did her research. She knew she'd be interrogated on the fascinating subject.

And I bet when she referenced the Bristol Stool Chart she was very proud of herself. She thought she was winning.

It could also be remembered from when her daughter was severely constipated - remember how the nasogastric wash out for that was so traumatic (for Erin) that it contributed to her mistrust of the hospital system

The family would have been shown it to work out how constipated the girl was, then to use it at home to monitor how soft the stools were during maintenance treatment.

 

[MrJ]

Prefacing this with the fact we will not see a verdict until the jury has had their say in the matter. And also sub judice means I can't assign guilt or innocence. That said, I am gobsmacked by the smarminess and snarkiness demonstrated by EP today to Dr Nanette Rogers. Denying everything, insinuating that prior witnesses are lying, huffing and scoffing, it all comes across terribly. Though as others have said, I really want to see her actual body language in the courtroom through a video. Lady, this is your murder trial and you're acting like this. Yeah I don't think this is going well for her at all.

 

[Detechtive]

Most people I know have matching sets, including myself. Although can't say how common that is. My Grandma always had a mix match of everything - everyone would have a different glass/plate

I think what is more telling though, is the 'effort' Erin speaks about putting into the lunch and being self conscious of the pantry and wanting to present a certain image to the family with the perfect BWs. She was also financially stable. It strikes me as the kind of person that would want to demonstrate matching plates for a luncheon. MOO.

My grandma did too, but they were post depression babies. They never threw anything out because they grew up so very poor. If my granny had a broken vase she would make my grandpa glue it back together. When clothing was no longer wearable from many rips she had prior mended, they were recycled into a square in a patch work quilt or used for hair curling rags at night before eventually being retired as rags for dirty housework. It’s a completely different generation and I find it very cute that they all have mish mash plates from the many years and their frugality and their many inheritances over the years.

As opposed to Erin who is a wealthy Middle aged woman with older children.

She tried to heavily guilt-trip him into coming. If that didn't work, oh well in her mind, she still gets revenge on him by wiping out his family IMO.

I still truly believe she thought he would show up that day to eat her poisoned treat for him. That hope only faded after 3pm that day when he dropped the kids home from the movies and didn’t go inside, IMO.

Yep, that's why I don't bother with a matching set for day to day, but if I have guests I am whipping out the "nice" plates!

Sure, people with small kids have a bunch of things - I had a bunch of ugly plastic plates and sippy cups when my kids were little. But her kids weren’t little at the time. It’s not normal, imo.

Actually, Erin is giving Amy's baking company level delusion if you think about it

I lol’d at this. Erin reminds me so much of Amy in that episode, the only difference is that Amy seems more extroverted and Erin is more snarky and passive aggressive.

Simon has a point there. Erin said that she drove the kids to school. And then asked Simon to take her to the hospital, I thought at about 8am.

Remembering the kids school is on Phillip Island (as per my previous link) .... an hour's drive each way.


View attachment 593698
Google Maps

I think I read that the kids caught the bus that day? I could be wrong.

Dr Rogers takes Ms Patterson to medical test results showing her potassium levels were low on the night of Monday July 31, then progressively improved into Tuesday morning.

Liver function tests conducted on Ms Patterson showed no sign of liver injury according to previous medical evidence.

"I suggest that you were not seriously unwell, because you did not consume even a minute amount of death cap mushrooms at the lunch. What do you say?" Dr Rogers asks.

"I have no idea if I did or I didn't," Ms Patterson replies.

"You were not suffering from death cap mushroom poisoning ... I suggest you deliberately tried to make it seem like you were ... you did that because you knew you had not eaten death cap mushrooms," Dr Rogers says.

"Incorrect," Ms Patterson says.

"And you knew how suspicious it would look if you did not seem sick like your guests," Dr Rogers continues to press.

"Incorrect," Ms Patterson responds

Everything Dr Rogers is saying has been what I have theorised for each separate part of this complex matter, it’s validating to see her putting these accusations to Erin. Finally, someone is asking the hard questions and I’m here for it

She's such a terrible liar oh my GOD

Key Event
Just now
Questions over sixth beef Wellington Erin prepared

By Joseph Dunstan

Dr Rogers suggests that the sixth beef Wellington Ms Patterson had prepared was for Simon and was thrown in the bin.

Ms Patterson disagrees, saying she didn't prepare the sixth beef Wellington for Simon.

"I did not make that one for him ... it was just an extra one," she says.

She absolutely made it for her main target, Simon, IMO. However, I noticed today that EP or was it Dr Rogers commented that #6 was in the fridge before she threw it out. I strongly suspect it was actually in the freezer - because, I can’t imagine she would let it sit in the fridge with a teen boy who would eat everything in sight.
She put it into the bin on her trip home from hospital and by the time it was with the first scientist later that night, it had defrosted IMO. This also accounts for the “seepage” of liquids noted in the state of the contents.

1m ago
Erin maintains she fed leftover beef to children

By Joseph Dunstan

Dr Rogers suggests the steak was removed from the leftover beef Wellington before the mushroom and pastry from that item were put into the bin.

Erin says the meat was removed and ultimately put "into my children's stomachs". Ms Patterson has previously told the court she fed her children the meat as leftovers for dinner on Sunday.

"I suggest that you certainly did not feed that steak to your children, but we've been over that anyway, you no doubt disagree with me," Dr Rogers says.

"Correct," Ms Patterson says.

I found this hilarious, that she finally agrees on Dr Rogers implying she’s disagreeable

I think she's establishing that the beef Erin fed her children was not poisoned. Either it was her portion, or more likely separate steak she cooked for them.

Yes I’m aware of that but what I’m trying to unsuccessfully communicate (sorry!) is that she had cut the beef Wellington in half - The full untouched (Simon’s *) poisoned beef Wellington, and removed the steak altogether.
This could imply that Erin thought the death cap residue was on the meat, not the duxelle or pastry because she got rid of the steak part but kept the duxelle and pastry in the bin, thinking perhaps they wouldn’t find death caps in the duxelle and pastry.

… Or I’m overthinking it and it was just Erin trying to make the leftovers looks like it fit her story that the kids ate leftovers with the pastry and duxelle scraped off.

Or maybe she just threw everything in there without thinking

She acts as if her memory is an entity separate from Erin. Like some evil twin that follows her around, causing trouble.

Denying responsibility for her actions.

her memory is her other personality perhaps

And I would add to this, insisting her son’s flying lesson go ahead despite the fact that he has woken up with a sore tummy, which could very well be gastro because she has allegedly been experiencing explosive diarrhea symptoms of gastro herself overnight and gastro (non food poisoning) is contagious.

Can you imagine letting your 14 year old child fly a plane (I’m assuming this is what flying lessons entail) while they might have gastro?!

IMO the drive to Tyab served other purposes for Erin, maybe to bin something incriminating in the service station toilets, to give an excuse to be hard to contact by phone, and maybe even to be away from the house in case anyone came knocking with questions about the sick lunch guests.

I just can’t imagine letting me children go anywhere when their beloved grandparents were dying.

So a ballet rehearsal for a 9 yr old was more important than life saving treatments for her and the kids?

And more important than seeing their beloved grandparents in hospital.
Business as usual

Mismatched plates can be charming! (Especially at Grandma's house!)
My daughter had mismatched plates for her wedding reception (over 100 people) in Chicago. They came from various vintage sites and thrift shops, and were later donated. At her own home (condo), the plates matched. But then, she was a newlywed!
I just think that only having six dinner plates, matched or not, is odd. Homowner, with two children! So, I guess my last question is, do people commonly use paper plates in Australia? (I do, just curious, not a criticism!)

Agree, and those vintage mish mash are beautifully quirky and aesthetic. Very different to this, IMO.

Kathy Bates kind of scary

She’s the only appropriate actress to play EP in a Netflix series, IMO.

Even crazier, Erin testified that she had 2 white plates, 2 black plates, 1 black and red plate and a plate her daughter made in kindergarten. And that she owned no other plates.

So her son was “mistaken” about 4 white plates, Ian was mistaken about 4 grey plates and Heather told Simon about Erin’s plate being different from the other plates, also allegedly mistaken.

How do any of those people call 2 black plates any other color? It’s a mystery.

Good pickup. I’m so overwhelmed with the conflicting statements at this point

She's made a few smart-** comments like that today. Methinks that Rogers SC is playing her like a fiddle for the sake of the jury.

I think Dr Rogers and their team have utilised the long weekend well
I hope they reviewed the Amber Heard cross examination, because we are dealing with an accused very similar, IMO.

If I was on the defence I'd want to throw in the towel
She sounds a nightmare to deal with. I get irritated just reading the nonsense she spews, can't imagine having to actually be around her.

‘belligerent’ comes to mind.

The thing is, nurses and doctors have detailed 'patient logs' where they make note of important conversations. If nurses or doctors were convinced that lives were at risk if the children were not brought in for treatment, they are going to write that in their medical logs---for their own protection as well.

So EP can dispute the 'timing' of these conversations but I do believe there might be some rebuttal testimony that nails this stuff down.

Certain questions of timing are crucial, imo. One of the strongest indicators of her guilt might be her lack of concern about her children's health and safety that afternoon.

Most parents would move Heaven and Earth to get antidotes to their children if the hospital said it was a Life and Death situation. She shrugged and said stop yelling at me, we're fine. I find that bizarre.

So bizarre!!

Ouch! "Definitely not a regular thing as Americans do." But you are probably right!

I’m always shocked when I see US shows where people eat with disposable plates. I’ve never seen anyone in Australia do that except for at picnics / bbqs in the park, and even then, we aren’t allowed to use plastic plates or straws or cutlery anymore - they’re all biodegradable plates that don’t last long with anything liquid in or on them

Edit: Yikes! Sorry for this epically long post.

 

[Brooklyn127]

For what it's worth... I am a female home owner of Erin's vintage and also have 2 kids, although grown up now. There's currently 3 of us living here. I own a set of about 8 matching dinner plates, but most have small chips in them. Could I afford to throw them out and buy more, a matching complete set of 8+? Absolutely, but these are fine and still fit for purpose. I also don't entertain a lot, and if I do have bigger gatherings, I tend to use paper plates. I'll purchase a matching set of paper plates, bowls, cups and napkins so at least everything is matching and the table looks nice. My gatherings are always casual and mainly family.

For the record, I am a fully functioning, financially stable woman, who AFAIK, has never been accused of murdering 3 people who I fed off my dinner set and/or paper plates.

Matching (or not) was not the point. Only that there were (supposedly) six plates in the house.
Nothing wrong with using paper plates!
And, finally, so happy to hear that you have never been accused of murdering anyone! (Me, too!)
This case, sadly, is very different.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Sounds like she did her research. She knew she'd be interrogated on the fascinating subject.

And I bet when she referenced the Bristol Stool Chart she was very proud of herself. She thought she was winning.

Yes, Erin is a woman who does her research...

 

[JBowie]

Yes, Erin is a woman who does her research...

... but forgot to research how to erase her research efforts.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IMHO EP would have been the perfect lady for RB. Wealthy, separated with more than one property. Just don’t eat the Beef Wellington.

He's probably *already* writing love letters to her in prison and asking her to sign over the title deeds of her houses right this minute, after having already stripped them of valuables. JMO MOO

 

[MsMarple]

For what it's worth... I am a female home owner of Erin's vintage and also have 2 kids, although grown up now. There's currently 3 of us living here. I own a set of about 8 matching dinner plates, but most have small chips in them. Could I afford to throw them out and buy more, a matching complete set of 8+? Absolutely, but these are fine and still fit for purpose. I also don't entertain a lot, and if I do have bigger gatherings, I tend to use paper plates. I'll purchase a matching set of paper plates, bowls, cups and napkins so at least everything is matching and the table looks nice. My gatherings are always casual and mainly family.

For the record, I am a fully functioning, financially stable woman, who AFAIK, has never been accused of murdering 3 people who I fed off my dinner set and/or paper plates.

I think what’s at issue here isn’t whether or not the accused should own a matching set of dishes but rather where are four white or grey dishes that are at least similar enough for witnesses to consider them matching?

And one of those witnesses is the accused’s own son. He may not pay close attention but he described four white plates, not black or red and black. The kid lives there!

On at least two occasions Erin allegedly had been out of the house, alone, long enough to possibly dispose of items of potential evidence.

Where are those plates? And why lie about having four similar or matched ones?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

My grandma did too, but they were post depression babies. They never threw anything out because they grew up so very poor. If my granny had a broken vase she would make my grandpa glue it back together. When clothing was no longer wearable from many rips she had prior mended, they were recycled into a square in a patch work quilt or used for hair curling rags at night before eventually being retired as rags for dirty housework. It’s a completely different generation and I find it very cute that they all have mish mash plates from the many years and their frugality and their many inheritances over the years.

As opposed to Erin who threw all of her mothers belongings (bar books and pharmaceuticals) into the trash upon her death.



I still truly believe she thought he would show up that day to eat her poisoned treat for him.



Sure, people with small kids have a bunch of things - I had a bunch of ugly plastic plates and sippy cups when my kids were little. But hers weren’t. It’s not normal, imo.


I lol’d at this. Erin reminds me so much of Amy in that episode, the only difference is that Amy seems more extroverted and Erin is more snarky and passive aggressive.


I think I read that the kids caught the bus that day? I could be wrong.



Everything Dr Rogers is saying has been what I have theorised for each separate part of this complex matter, it’s validating to see her putting these accusations to Erin. Finally, someone is asking the hard the hard questions and I’m here for it


She absolutely made it for her main target, Simon, IMO. However, I noticed today that EP commented it was in the fridge before she threw it out. I strongly suspect it was actually in the freezer - because, I can’t imagine she would let it sit in the fridge with a teen boy who would eat everything in sight.
She put it into the bin on her trip home from hospital and by the time it was with the first scientist later that night, it had defrosted IMO. This also accounts for the “seepage” of liquids noted in the state of the contents.



I found this hilarious, that she finally agrees on Dr Rogers implying she’s disagreeable


Yes I’m aware of that but what I’m trying to unsuccessfully communicate is that she had cut the beef Wellington in half. The full beef Wellington, and removed the steak altogether.
This could imply that Erin thought the death cap residue was on the meat, not the duxelle because she got rid of the steak part but kept the duxelle and pastry in the bin, thinking perhaps they wouldn’t find death caps in the duxelle and pastry.



her memory is her other personality perhaps


I just can’t imagine letting me children go anywhere when their beloved grandparents were dying.



And more important than seeing their beloved grandparents in hospital.
Business as usual

Agree, and those vintage mish mash are beautifully quirky and aesthetic. Very different to this, IMO.


She’s the only appropriate actress to play EP in a Netflix series, IMO.


Good pickup. I’m so overwhelmed with the conflicting statements at this point


I think Dr Rogers and their team gave utilised the long weekend well
I hope she reviewed the Amber Heard cross examination, because we are dealing with an accused very similar, IMO.


When I was around EP, she went absolutely crazy over the smallest of things. Arguing and explaining until the death, I eventually learned to apologise (even though I knew she wasn’t correct) and back the hell away to avoid the endless emotional hysteria in order to keep group harmony. Utterly exhausting and insane.



So bizarre!!


I’m always shocked when I see US shows where people eat with disposable plates. I’ve never seen anyone in Australia do that except for at picnics / bbqs in the park, and even then, we aren’t allowed to use plastic plates or straws or cutlery anymore - they’re all crappy biodegradable plates that don’t last long with anything liquid in or on them

Edit: Yikes! Sorry for this epically long post.

That's very clever of you to reply to all of those posts in the one post Detechtive.

 

[MsMarple]

Sounds like she did her research. She knew she'd be interrogated on the fascinating subject.

And I bet when she referenced the Bristol Stool Chart she was very proud of herself. She thought she was winning.

Think she’ll include that on her LinkedIn profile? Expert in stool classification. Gag.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

It was amusing watching the Channel 10 news reporter summarising the court case today and basically saying that Erin didn't agree with anyone.