Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #13 *Arrest*

[JBowie]

Omg.

She allegedly drove to Outtrim? Oh my goodness.

Looking back over the court reporting, the phone expert could not be definite that the pings were in Outtrim.

Dr Sorrell explained weather, geography and topography or even the power, height and tilt of an antenna could cause a phone to choose a tower that is further away by provides better signal.

Highlighting this, he told the jury he once saw a case where a phone preferred a tower 60km away.

Continuing with Outtrim, Mr Mandy suggested that while the records indicate a possible visit on May 22, they were also “consistent with the phone never entering the Outtrim post code”.

Dr Sorrell responded saying he “certainly can’t place the phone within Outtrim… or even a tightly defined zone”.

“It’s distinctly possible there is a location that could be found that is consistent with these records that is outside Outtrim,” he said.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-phone-placed-in-vicinity-of-loch-outtrim-after-death-cap-sightings/news-story/6a9bc1f64a75656a29128c1d186cafc7

 

[MrJ]

Omg.

She allegedly drove to Outtrim? Oh my goodness.

imo it's hard to explain away both the initial pings at Loch and Outtrim and now this ping after the fact. very suspicious

 

[SouthAussie]

Looking back over the court reporting, the phone expert could not be definite that the pings were in Outtrim.

Dr Sorrell explained weather, geography and topography or even the power, height and tilt of an antenna could cause a phone to choose a tower that is further away by provides better signal.

Highlighting this, he told the jury he once saw a case where a phone preferred a tower 60km away.

Continuing with Outtrim, Mr Mandy suggested that while the records indicate a possible visit on May 22, they were also “consistent with the phone never entering the Outtrim post code”.

Dr Sorrell responded saying he “certainly can’t place the phone within Outtrim… or even a tightly defined zone”.

“It’s distinctly possible there is a location that could be found that is consistent with these records that is outside Outtrim,” he said.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-phone-placed-in-vicinity-of-loch-outtrim-after-death-cap-sightings/news-story/6a9bc1f64a75656a29128c1d186cafc7

Though, I guess it proves that Erin did not stay home and just take care of the little jobs she claims she wanted to do. She left the house and was somewhere where her phone pinged that tower. Maybe that somewhere is where the grey plates went.

imo

 

[katydid23]

sorry! i don't mean to offend at all! But I've seen quite a few social media videos of Americans using paper plates to serve regular meals and that's how I learned that Americans regularly use paper plates at home. Its just not a thing here, not like that

I don't know anyone here that regularly uses paper plates for their meals. Except young bachelor pads or college kids maybe?

These social media videos---are they on a specific topic maybe? Because in general, Americans don't use paper plates at home, except for specific circumstances----

---like outside by a swimming pool or a BBQ party maybe? Or a kids birthday party?

 

[Eloise]

I don't know anyone here that regularly uses paper plates for their meals. Except young bachelor pads or college kids maybe?

These social media videos---are they on a specific topic maybe? Because in general, Americans don't use paper plates at home, except for specific circumstances----

---like outside by a swimming pool or a BBQ party maybe? Or a kids birthday party?

nope they're just serving up regular dinner! And its been multiple different people too!

There's always the chance with social media that there's weird things happening just to farm engagement. But there are these links that talk about the phenomenon as well.

I hate it when people use paper plates, it's lazy and American

The anonymous woman took to UK parenting forum Mumsnet , to say washing plates is 'not that hard, nor time consuming'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Why Americans Use Disposable Paper Plates Every Day?

In the bustling and fast-paced lifestyle of modern America, it's not uncommon to notice a prevalent choice when it comes to dining: disposable paper plates. What was once reserved for outdoor picnics and special occasions has now become a daily habit for many households across the nation. In...

ponypackaging.com

could be generational or regional, perhaps?

 

[Lisa4]

Though, I guess it proves that Erin did not stay home and just take care of the little jobs she claims she wanted to do. She left the house and was somewhere where her phone pinged that tower. Maybe that somewhere is where the grey plates went.

imo

Could they possibly check by investigating fuel purchases?

 

[Ellery84]

I have a number of details I am trying to work out, in regards to this case.

Erin Patterson might be guilty, and she might be innocent. That is for the jury to decide.

But I’m just thinking out loud here: If Erin is guilty, and she deliberately served up the death cap lunches to Simon’s relatives, was she trying to play “God” that day - by deciding which guests lived (her) and which guests died? I also wonder: Did she like the sense of power in planning and deciding the deaths of those good and decent human beings? Is a sense of power and control important to her?

Did she get a rush out of plating up her own meal, knowing it was “safe?” Was she scared that she would get the servings mixed up? Was she nervous?

She would have needed to follow her pie from the kitchen bench to her plate and then make sure her plate got to her place at the table.

That is a lot of pressure. Was a different plate colour the only safeguard she had put in place to protect herself, or was there a special emblem or a different marking on her pie?

And then there is Ian.

How did he survive??? He had death cap poisoning. It was identified in his urine. But he pulled through somehow, after a long and difficult illness.

It’s my opinion that if Erin was attempting to play God on that day, I guess by miraculously saving Ian, God “out-Godded” Erin. I wonder how Erin would have felt about that…?

I also wonder if she freaked out when she heard that Ian survived or was she happy and glad?

Did she ever try to reach out to Ian again after he recovered, to ask how he was, either when he was in hospital or after he got out of hospital, or was there a restraining order in place whereby she was not allowed to contact him? Or did she just not try to contact him or ask after him?

So….many….questions!!

 

[Warshawski]

The jurors are more than likely to need counselling after this trial. I hope the Government pays for that to happen. What a horrendous case!

I agree with you. They must be so pleased when the day ends ( they’ll surely need Panadol imo) !

I find myself constantly thinking of them & what they must be going through, not only having to endure this, but also knowing that at the end of it all, they are charged with ‘somehow’ making sense of it all in order to make a sound judgement.

I’m shocked by just how calmly arrogant EP is in the witness box. It doesn’t appear normal behaviour to me, irrespective of her guilt or innocence.

 

[Ellery84]

I’m shocked by just how calmly arrogant EP is in the witness box. It doesn’t appear normal behaviour to me, irrespective of her guilt or innocence.

I guess the jury is starting to see all of the faces of Ms Patterson. IMO

 

[srper2]

Surely cross-contamination would have affected her and the kids as well?

It's worth remembering that Erin would have had a significant amount of time to dispose of any evidence before people got sick and suspicion came upon her.

Regardless of guilt, I'm inclined to believe that the DC mushroom was in a powdered form somehow, although I'm not sure how dangerous that would have been to simply have around. The lack of other exotic mushrooms and any pieces of DC suggests that Erin's version is a fabrication. I think she knew full well she had foraged mushrooms that she was adding to the meal. The issue is whether she knew they were DCs.

If she didn't know they were death caps they would have been in her meal too and likely also in the "cookies" she gave the children and bragged about hiding mushrooms in. But conveniently were only in the food for the in laws she was pissed with...

 

[Warshawski]

Yes I’m aware of that but what I’m trying to unsuccessfully communicate (sorry!) is that she had cut the beef Wellington in half - The full untouched (Simon’s *) poisoned beef Wellington, and removed the steak altogether.
This could imply that Erin thought the death cap residue was on the meat, not the duxelle or pastry because she got rid of the steak part but kept the duxelle and pastry in the bin

My theory is that she sprinkled the powdered DC over the steak before adding e mushroom duxelles. … so she thought getting rid of the steak would eliminate evidence of DC in the BW.
Seems she didn’t realise that just a hint will transfer toxins, which was what happened - as determined by the tests on those leftovers.
IMO

 

[srper2]

I have a number of details I am trying to work out, in regards to this case.

Erin Patterson might be guilty, and she might be innocent. That is for the jury to decide.

But I’m just thinking out loud here: If Erin is guilty, and she deliberately served up the death cap lunches to Simon’s relatives, was she trying to play “God” that day - by deciding which guests lived (her) and which guests died? I also wonder: Did she like the sense of power in planning and deciding the deaths of those good and decent human beings? Is a sense of power and control important to her?

Did she get a rush out of plating up her own meal, knowing it was “safe?” Was she scared that she would get the servings mixed up? Was she nervous?

She would have needed to follow her pie from the kitchen bench to her plate and then make sure her plate got to her place at the table.

That is a lot of pressure. Was a different plate colour the only safeguard she had put in place to protect herself, or was there a special emblem or a different marking on her pie?

And then there is Ian.

How did he survive??? He had death cap poisoning. It was identified in his urine. But he pulled through somehow, after a long and difficult illness.

It’s my opinion that if Erin was attempting to play God on that day, I guess by miraculously saving Ian, God “out-Godded” Erin. I wonder how Erin would have felt about that…?

I also wonder if she freaked out when she heard that Ian survived or was she happy and glad?

Did she ever try to reach out to Ian again after he recovered, to ask how he was, either when he was in hospital or after he got out of hospital, or was there a restraining order in place whereby she was not allowed to contact him? Or did she just not try to contact him or ask after him?

So….many….questions!!

I am surprised she didn't accidentally send him a large bunch of deadly nightshade she picked after checking the inaturalist sites...

 

[MrJ]

Poor kids. EP throwing particularly the son under the bus today. Making him out to be misremembering at best and lying at worst. (To be clear, neither of those things are good in the long run.) He and his sister are innocent in all this. They'll be affected by this their whole lives I'm guessing. I don't doubt she loves her kids. But if she is guilty why would she even contemplate ending the lives of relatives her kids seemed to have a great relationship with?

 

[browneyes]

Why would the jury believe that so many of the prosecution witnesses are lying, especially nurses and doctors who have documentation, and Erin is truthful? It boggles my mind. One doctor testified that they were going to call the police if Erin didn’t bring the kids in.

 

[browneyes]

"anxious we might have eaten those things" then why be so hesitant to bring your kids to the hospital...

"worried that you were going to get caught" isn't that why she ditched the the dehydrator...

And she had to destroy the dishes.

 

[Megnut]

BBM. Throwing Dr Rhonda Stuart under the bus.

1m ago
Erin Patterson tells court she didn't measure how much her lunch guests ate

By Joseph Dunstan

The prosecutor then moves to the topic of how much of her beef Wellington meal Erin Patterson ate at the lunch.

"I suggest that it's not the case that you simply picked at your own meal at the lunch?" Dr Rogers asks.

"I don't think I claimed that," Ms Patterson says.

Dr Rogers recaps banter at the table about how much people had eaten and asserts there was no banter about how much Ms Patterson ate because she ate her meal. Ms Patterson disagrees.

The prosecutor recaps how much people ate, starting with Gail, who the court has previously heard ate just half of her meal.

"It may have been more, it may have been less, I didn't measure it," Ms Patterson responds.

Dr Rogers then moves to an account from doctor Rhonda Stuart, who previously told the court Ms Patterson had told her she'd eaten roughly half of her meal.

"I suggest that you had in fact eaten a whole portion of your serve at the lunch ... and you told Professor Stuart, half in an effort to explain to the medical authorities, why your symptoms were not as serious as the symptoms for the other four lunch guests," Dr Rogers says.

"Incorrect," Ms Patterson responds.

She maintains under questioning that she does not recall her conversation with Professor Stuart at all.

Bolded in purple by me

EP says she didn't measure what everyone ate.

I rather beg to differ. A photo of death cap mushrooms on a scale comes to mind.

JMO

 

[browneyes]

Even mis-matched plates are usually the result of a depleted set - breakage usually the culprit. I've got two sets, each with one or two missing, a couple of different sets of bowls, again with one or two missing, same with sideplates. On top of that, I have some unique "plating" plates/bowls, bought for presenting, or "plating" specific dishes, but I'm bougee like that.

Even if she had beautiful china, she knew she would have to destroy the dishes after the meal, so why waste them. Did they ever locate her special small plate…the one she said her kid made in grade school? I bet not.

 

[browneyes]

Do you think that her defence have advised her to say that she doesn't remember anything?

I think she’s doing what she wants. Her lawyers are probably over her arrogance.

 

[Ellery84]

Though, I guess it proves that Erin did not stay home and just take care of the little jobs she claims she wanted to do. She left the house and was somewhere where her phone pinged that tower. Maybe that somewhere is where the grey plates went.

imo

I read your last sentence, and I automatically imagined donning my Herringbone hat and tramping around Outtrim, and sighting four grey plates cast atop a mossy knoll.

And I think: There is something very “twisted-fairytale” in all of this.

The settings and locations of the alleged crimes and their preparations are somewhat picturesque in contrast to the bleakness of death and decay of the victims organ failure, and horrific demise.

It’s almost as if Erin’s late mother could have written about this, in one of her books.

 

[JBowie]

I find myself constantly thinking of them & what they must be going through, not only having to endure this, but also knowing that at the end of it all, they are charged with ‘somehow’ making sense of it all in order to make a sound judgement.

Bear in mind that the judge has ruled that the jury will be sequestered during its deliberations, so there's more endurance ahead for them until they finally are rid of Patterson and mushrooms.

Some charges dropped as Erin Patterson goes on trial for alleged mushroom murder

Erin Patterson is charged with the 2023 murders of her mother-in-law Gail Patterson, father-in-law Donald Patterson and Gail's sister Heather Wilkinson.

www.sbs.com.au