Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[JBowie]

So Mandy is planning on talking until Friday afternoon?

 

[MrJ]

Key Event
3m ago
Defence takes aim at 'absurd' arguments in crown case
Judd Boaz profile image
By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy then turns his attention to propositions from the prosecution, which he dubs "convoluted" and "absurd":

That Erin Patterson would commit murder without any motive
That Ms Patterson used the cancer lie to get her lunch guests to attend
That Ms Patterson expected her guests to take her claims about having medical issues to the grave
That Ms Patterson would have committed the crime knowing an investigation would fall directly on her
He says that the defence has clearly refuted each of these points in its closing.

 

[JBowie]

That Erin Patterson would commit murder without any motive

Tick

That Ms Patterson used the cancer lie to get her lunch guests to attend

Tick

That Ms Patterson expected her guests to take her claims about having medical issues to the grave

Tick

That Ms Patterson would have committed the crime knowing an investigation would fall directly on her

Tick.

100% correct Monsieur Mandy. Go to the top of the class.

 

[SilentHill]

"You would not have had the impression that she was trying to charm you, or persuade you," he says.

That is certainly a curious way of trying to explain her poor performance on the stand.

 

[MsMarple]

Finally!

3m ago

Justice Beale wishes the jury a good weekend​

By Judd Boaz​

Justice Beale previews his directions next week, and tells the jury that it is "more important than ever, that you have a good weekend".

This draws a laugh from the jury.

Justice Beale reiterates that he wants them fresh for next week when he gives his charges.

Key Event
5m ago

Defence says if there is any doubt, jury must find Erin Patterson not guilty​

By Judd Boaz​

In his summation, Mr Mandy tells the jury that if there is even a slight chance that the poisonings could have been accidental, they must acquit Erin Patterson.

He emphasises words to the jury as he repeats each proposition.

"If you think that maybe she deliberately poisoned the meal, you must find her not guilty," Mr Mandy says.

"If you think that it's likely that she deliberately poisoned the meal, you must find her not guilty.

"If you think that she probably deliberately poisoned the meal, you must find her not guilty."

This concludes the defence's closing arguments.

Key Event
7m ago

The burden of proof remains with prosecution, defence says​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy reiterates that there must be proof beyond reasonable doubt, and the onus is on the prosecution to prove it.

"That's why its called the burden of proof, because it's something they carry," Mr Mandy says.

He says that is how the legal system works, and that it protects everyone including the jurors.

"If there's an honest but mistaken witness out there who thinks you've done something wrong, you might well find yourself on trial," he says.

"These principles protect all of us … and they protect us from being wrongfully convicted. A jury can't say 'oh well, she's probably guilty so that'll do'.

"A jury can't say 'she lied about a lump on her elbow, she lied about cancer, she said terrible things [about her in-laws] … she behaved badly … and therefore we're going to convict her'."

He says only the evidence can be considered, not prejudice, empathy or any notions the jury has about witnesses.

Key Event
10m ago

Defence accuses prosecution of forcing evidence to fit their narrative​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy picks up on a metaphor used by Nanette Rogers SC in the prosecution's closing argument, where she referred to the case as a jigsaw puzzle to be pieced together.

"You can't force jigsaw puzzle pieces together," he says.

"Prosecutors can, as we've seen in our learned friends address, force the evidence to fit their theory."

He says while missing puzzle pieces may only leave an incomplete picture, missing evidence is much more significant.

Mr Mandy tells the jury that the prosecution has manufactured a picture by:

• Assuming that Erin Patterson is guilty
• Using hindsight
• Not allowing that witnesses may be mistaken
• Being selective with its evidence

 

[Kemug]

Yes, the son's testimony was that the white plates were 15cm in diameter. That happens to be the exact dimensions of the side plates in my set. One would think the lunch plates to fit a wellington would have been significantly larger (a regular dinner plate is 25cm) and I gather those woi ki⁹uld have been cleared long before Simon brought the kids back from the

I don't know what happens in the diningroom of Mr Mandy's household, but I can declare that in my own diningroom, and those of friends where I have dined, you just do not leave dirty plates from the previous course on the table. Not in a restaurant either, or even a humble cafe. For one thing, there just isn't room. IMO, there is no doubt that the plates described by the son were the dessert plates, which had been used for the cake and fruit.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Another stage of the trial has drawn to a close​

The prosecution and defence have now completed their closing arguments.

We've heard from all the witnesses, we've heard seen all the evidence.

Now, court will adjourn until Tuesday, when the jury will return to hear Justice Beale's directions.

These directions will likely take more than one day, and will remind the jury of the definition of crucial terms such as reasonable doubt.

After that, the jury will head out to deliberate.

 

[MrJ]

Thankfully that crap is over with

 

[Eloise]

Finally!

3m ago

Justice Beale wishes the jury a good weekend​

By Judd Boaz​

Justice Beale previews his directions next week, and tells the jury that it is "more important than ever, that you have a good weekend".

This draws a laugh from the jury.

Justice Beale reiterates that he wants them fresh for next week when he gives his charges.

Key Event
5m ago

Defence says if there is any doubt, jury must find Erin Patterson not guilty​

By Judd Boaz​

In his summation, Mr Mandy tells the jury that if there is even a slight chance that the poisonings could have been accidental, they must acquit Erin Patterson.

He emphasises words to the jury as he repeats each proposition.


This concludes the defence's closing arguments.

Key Event
7m ago

The burden of proof remains with prosecution, defence says​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy reiterates that there must be proof beyond reasonable doubt, and the onus is on the prosecution to prove it.


He says that is how the legal system works, and that it protects everyone including the jurors.


He says only the evidence can be considered, not prejudice, empathy or any notions the jury has about witnesses.

Key Event
10m ago

Defence accuses prosecution of forcing evidence to fit their narrative​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy picks up on a metaphor used by Nanette Rogers SC in the prosecution's closing argument, where she referred to the case as a jigsaw puzzle to be pieced together.


He says while missing puzzle pieces may only leave an incomplete picture, missing evidence is much more significant.

Mr Mandy tells the jury that the prosecution has manufactured a picture by:

• Assuming that Erin Patterson is guilty
• Using hindsight
• Not allowing that witnesses may be mistaken
• Being selective with its evidence

I think Mandy has actually done a great job on defence. Textbook.

 

[MrJ]

I think Mandy has actually done a great job on defence. Textbook.

He did his best.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

He did his best.

Mandy says Patterson had not concealed these devices.

Well, where is her missing phone, A then???

 

[BreakingNews]

Yes, the defence gets to see it all. Didn’t her defence provide info for her to study up on four types of mushrooms… I just thought maybe the Judge might call a halt if he thought the defence was covering things that aren’t probative but the Judge is trying to be fair and has to make tricky judgement calls all the time I guess. And at times he did call breaks right throughout the trial to keep things on track. He seems very considerate in regard to the jurors and everyone really.

That is what judges have to do.

 

[Ssschu]

Another stage of the trial has drawn to a close​

The prosecution and defence have now completed their closing arguments.

We've heard from all the witnesses, we've heard seen all the evidence.

Now, court will adjourn until Tuesday, when the jury will return to hear Justice Beale's directions.

These directions will likely take more than one day, and will remind the jury of the definition of crucial terms such as reasonable doubt.

After that, the jury will head out to deliberate.

Why are they taking such a long adjournment?

 

[BreakingNews]

Same thing applies here in Oz.

This case has played out somewhat similarly to the Greg Lynn case, in that the defence knew better than to call character witnesses, only to end up with the defenfent themself on the stand.

How do we know as fact that the defence 'knew better' than to call witnesses including EP?

 

[JBowie]

Why are they taking such a long adjournment?

I guess the judge wants to give the jury a break with their families while he writes his bit, which will probably take a day to deliver. Then they will be sequestered for who knows how long until -- hopefully -- they reach a verdict.

 

[Kemug]

Mandy claimed that her so called illness or cancer couldn’t have been used as a lure to the lunch because she mentioned ithe illness following consumption of the BWellingtons. Now that’s fuzzy logic on his part right there. It didn’t matter when she mentioned it. She did I believe give Gail and probably Don, and Simon the idea she wanted to discuss something.

Not only fuzzy logic, but downright ridiculous, IMO.

 

[Jess D]

Key Event
1m ago
Propositions from the defence about Erin Patterson as a witness
Judd Boaz profile image
By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy reminds the jury that Erin Patterson did not have to take the stand as a witness, but chose to expose herself.

He says she did this as an innocent person.

"It's difficult to imagine where you're putting yourself under an incredible amount of scrutiny. But she made that decision," he says.

Mr Mandy tells the jury that Ms Patterson merely told the truth in the witness box, and was not trying to convince them of her case.

"You would not have had the impression that she was trying to charm you, or persuade you," he says.

Mr Mandy says his client came through the cross-examination of the prosecution "unscathed" and that her testimony was consistent.

"You would not have had the impression that she was trying to charm you, or persuade you," he says.

 

[Jess D]

So Mandy is planning on talking until Friday afternoon?

 

[BreakingNews]

We don't know if she is lying about that or not.

But we do know that she lies a lot. Like habitually, she lies.

So what are the odds she is telling the truth about that?

So many things in her 'accidental' version make no sense, imo.

I'm only looking at the facts and the law.

 

[SouthAussie]

Does he not realise how bad of a look it is for her to be freaked out because she was getting the blame? And not because four people she loved were potentially dying??

I was driving home from work when Triple J news came on. Announcing that the defence had concluded its closing argument saying that Erin had freaked out because Simon asked her if she used the dehydrator to poison everyone - which he denies saying.

And what you have said was my first thought, too. Freaked out because her ex (supposedly) said she used the dehydrator to poison everyone?? How about freaking out that her in-laws were very ill, and coming clean about the foraged mushrooms so the doctors might be able to identify what they were fighting?

imo