Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[Porky1]

Just trying to sort out things in my mind. Did the defence address Heather’s remark about four matching plates and one odd coloured one? At all? I believe he didn’t, because it wouldn’t have helped his argumentation that Ian’s memory was wrong when another witness remembered the same as Ian.

No disrespect but why are the plates still discussed? Heather noticed, she mentioned it to Ian who remembered. That’s it.

Innocent: she gave her guests matching plates, a standard set of 4 in AU. She took a presentable plate from her everyday (mismatched?) plates for herself.
Guilty: she distinguished her ‘safe’ plate by using a different colour. Too obvious imho.

Remember, she fed kids, probably their friends, didn’t entertain.

 

[Moll]

Tbh this is another one of those convenient little factors that EP has in her case.

If I was a juror they'd be sick of me because all they'd be hearing is 'Erin is a known liar for self-preservation reasons'. That's the way I feel about a lot of these things.

Maybe she does have a distrust of hospitals that played into how she acted now, or maybe she has had a lot of time to come up with a narrative that fit all of the facts. The reality is that we can never quite know, and there's no reason to take Erin's word for it.

There's nothing convincing in her justifications of her behaviour towards hospital staff at the time when the Pattersons (sr) and Wilkinsons were desperately ill imo, and I hope this will be clarified in the judge's summing up. A lot of the defence argument comes into the category of 'unreasonable doubt', I think - they have to do it, and the judge has to point out what is actually reasonable, given all the facts.

 

[Spectrix]

Perhaps the accused didn’t like hospitals because she felt she wasn’t in control in hospital and couldn’t follow what she thought was best for herself and her children. Hospitals do tend to treat patients as passive recipients of care. And once you have an IV connected it’s harder to leave. You are somewhat trapped. And Dr Rogers argues the accused knew she didn’t need the hospital care or treatment anyway.

If Erin is convicted, I wonder how she's going to like prison, where just about every element of her life will be tightly controlled by the powers that be?

 

[Kemug]

"Erin Patterson was not an atheist."

RSBM
That ain't necessarily so, Mr Mandy. Just because she went to church, bible study, etc, does not make her a Christian, and she could very well be an atheist, or agnostic. Some people attend church and keep quiet about their real beliefs (or lack of) for various reasons, eg this is where their circle of friends is, because they may have lost their faith but don't want to lose their friends. Or, as may have been the case for Erin, members of their family are so very religious that they don't want to rock the boat.

 

[CityKid]

She appears to be very pedantic with language. However a reason for this is that the English language can be very confusing if not clarified. Her family came from a non English speaking background. Maybe she is just getting it right in her mind. It's like in Australia we might tell someone to hop in the car. We don't actually mean that though.

Any evidence for this? Her mother was a noted English lit professor and author.

Catalogue Search | Author: "Scutter, Heather Margaret, 1946-" | Catalogue | National Library of Australia Search Results

catalogue.nla.gov.au

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

No disrespect but why are the plates still discussed? Heather noticed, she mentioned it to Ian who remembered. That’s it.

Innocent: she gave her guests matching plates, a standard set of 4 in AU. She took a presentable plate from her everyday (mismatched?) plates for herself.
Guilty: she distinguished her ‘safe’ plate by using a different colour. Too obvious imho.

Remember, she fed kids, probably their friends, didn’t entertain.

JMO... I've been on this thread since the crime first happened and prior EP being arrested or charged. We know EP used different colour plates.

However, to my very best recollection, which could be mistaken, nobody really discussed in depth what EP did immediately after the victims finished eating their hot course meal of BW.

IMO it is yet another example of clear deception and how the plan unfolded that there is a wild inconsistency between the surviving victim's recollection and the deceased victim's memory (four grey / white dinner plates and one orange plate) and the children's recollection and the crockery located by LE.

The explanation for this IMO is that following the hot meal, EP probably disposed of everything off that table like it was toxic nuclear waste because she'd have been going out of her mind that any residue of DC could kill her or her children or dog. She probably refused offers of help, she seems to have refused to allow her guests to see her butler's pantry, and her children have a completely different description of the crockery they saw (small white matching plates).

Quite why the prosecution didn't home in on this as an area of 'proof' that EP did some smoke and mirrors performance with crockery, I'm not sure. Instead, we have people saying oh 'men don't remember things the same as women' or 'children don't take much notice of crockery', etc. They did all notice and everything aligns with a probable truth that EP disposed of the first course crockery and utensils with immediate effect - a clear sign of guilt and knowledge of poison that has been seemingly skipped over.

The question would be, what did she do with that crockery and those utensils because I'm 100% certain she disposed of them. Perhaps this is why they don't get much mention, as there's not been much effort to trace or locate them or maybe LE missed a trick there?

JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If Erin is convicted, I wonder how she's going to like prison, where just about every element of her life will be tightly controlled by the powers that be?

People like her seem to thrive in prison, strangely.

I think it's because they never really could cope in the outside world, constantly restless and dissatisfied types. They're so manipulative and intelligent they make friends easily and are well liked, often helping others with reading / writing / legal affairs. They even have a lot of girlfriends and lovers. Baffling. I guess they have an endless supply of vulnerable victims on the inside.

Reference: Myra Hindley, Rose West, Sarah Boone, Ghislaine Maxwell etc.

JMO MOO

 

[CityKid]

Just now
Son's memory of morning after lunch analysed

By Judd Boaz

Mr Mandy moves onto evidence given by Erin Patterson's son that his mother was drinking coffee on the morning after the lunch.

He calls into question the accuracy of Erin's son's analysis of the morning.

"Was this [teenaged] boy watching his mother like a hawk all morning?" Mr Mandy asks the jury.

Mr Mandy suggests he instead acted like most teenagers and went to play computer games instead of focusing on his mother.

He then accuses the prosecution of again being misleading with their evidence, noting the crown had ignored other aspects of his testimony.

"[Her son] also said she didn't sound like her usual happy self," Mr Mandy says.

Is he going to posit the same about the daughter who says EP was in the toilet 10 times that day? Is he going to ask if she was watching EP like a hawk, or are we supposed to just take her at her word?

 

[Monstradamus]

But as we all know rightly or wrongly she was NOT under constant observation when she took the phone into another room to apparently phone her lawyer. Was that even checked?

How can Mandy at this stage make things up like that?

If she went into her bedroom for privacy to phone her lawyer, there would plenty of places to hide a phone & sim card - bedroom, Walk-in Robe, Ensuite.
MOO

 

[Kemug]

Erin Patterson's strong desire to leave hospital is addressed by Mr Mandy.
Mr Mandy tells the jury that her desire to get her affairs at home in order and prepare her daughter for ballet was entirely reasonable.

RSBM
No Mr Mandy, it is certainly not reasonable at all in the circumstances. The doctors strongly suspected that the victims had consumed Deathcaps at the meal which Erin had shared, and were told that the children ate leftovers from. What crazy person would think it reasonable to pack your daughter's bag for ballet when her organs may have already begun to dissolve from Deathcap poisoning??

 

[Monstradamus]

RSBM
No Mr Mandy, it is certainly not reasonable at all in the circumstances. The doctors strongly suspected that the victims had consumed Deathcaps at the meal which Erin had shared, and were told that the children ate leftovers from. What crazy person would think it reasonable to pack your daughter's bag for ballet when her organs may have already begun to dissolve from Deathcap poisoning??

"I'll just go home for a quick nap and think about what's happened / what to do next "

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

JMO... I've been on this thread since the crime first happened and prior EP being arrested or charged. We know EP used different colour plates.

However, to my very best recollection, which could be mistaken, nobody really discussed in depth what EP did immediately after the victims finished eating their hot course meal of BW.

IMO it is yet another example of clear deception and how the plan unfolded that there is a wild inconsistency between the surviving victim's recollection and the deceased victim's memory (four grey / white dinner plates and one orange plate) and the children's recollection and the crockery located by LE.

The explanation for this IMO is that following the hot meal, EP probably disposed of everything off that table like it was toxic nuclear waste because she'd have been going out of her mind that any residue of DC could kill her or her children or dog. She probably refused offers of help, she seems to have refused to allow her guests to see her butler's pantry, and her children have a completely different description of the crockery they saw (small white matching plates).

Quite why the prosecution didn't home in on this as an area of 'proof' that EP did some smoke and mirrors performance with crockery, I'm not sure. Instead, we have people saying oh 'men don't remember things the same as women' or 'children don't take much notice of crockery', etc. They did all notice and everything aligns with a probable truth that EP disposed of the first course crockery and utensils with immediate effect - a clear sign of guilt and knowledge of poison that has been seemingly skipped over.

The question would be, what did she do with that crockery and those utensils because I'm 100% certain she disposed of them. Perhaps this is why they don't get much mention, as there's not been much effort to trace or locate them or maybe LE missed a trick there?

JMO MOO

3 of the witnesses died agonising deaths which is very convenient for EP and her Defence lawyer. Easy to pick at the story of just one sole surviving witness other than her, a person who has a difficult relationship with the truth.

I just get this image of her sitting at that table knowing full well what her guests were consuming and just observing the last meal 3 of them would ever eat.

I wonder how much weight she lost when apparently suffering from that chronic diarrhoea? It’s probably more effective than any weight loss surgery she wasn’t going to undergo.

 

[CityKid]

And was it ovarian cancer?

Luckily no, so I cancelled the big family meal and meeting

 

[Kemug]

The defence suggests to the jury that if her son's memory was faultless, he would have told police about a stop at the petrol station.ts

RSBM
Oh please. So now the son's memory and testimony is being sacrificed on the altar of his admitted liar of a mother. MOO

 

[CityKid]

Defence criticises police search​

Mr Mandy is now picking through the police search at Patterson's Leongatha home on August 5, 2023.
The jury heard homicide squad detectives led the search.
Detective Leading Senior Constable Stephen Eppingstall (pictured right) previously told the jury his role was supervising Patterson while the search was conducted.
Mr Mandy suggested police failed to seize all electronic devices during the August 5 search.
One item, Mr Mandy suggested, was a mobile phone on the windowsill of Patterson's home which he claimed was Phone A.
Mr Mandy also claimed police missed two laptop computers and a USB in the pantry.
He showed the jury a photo he said appeared to contain a phone, which was not seized by police.
Mr Mandy also said police made a mistake in not disconnecting Phone B from the network after seizing it.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

BBM. IMO blaming the police? Really? For not getting enough damning evidence off someone's phone?

 

[Tweet57]

RSBM
Oh please. So now the son's memory and testimony is being sacrificed on the altar of his admitted liar of a mother. MOO

Just the lowest of lows. Disgraceful.

 

[JBowie]

Mr Mandy also said police made a mistake in not disconnecting Phone B from the network after seizing it.

Patterson admitted to 'stupidly' performing a number of remote resets on it herself.

So what's Mandy's inference there? That police allowed defence-supporting evidence to be deleted from it?

What a crock!

 

[Kemug]

He says his client got into the witness box and told the jury she had panicked.

"Doesn't excuse what she did, not making an excuse about it," he says.

[But you] can't jump from there to what the crown wants you to conclude from those items of evidence.

RSBM
So, a known and self-confessed liar said, under oath, that her suspicious actions (eg dumping the dehydrator, resetting her phone) were because she panicked. Sorry, but that doesn't convince me. However, I will certainly try to remember that tip for the next time I murder someone, and get caught disposing of the murder weapon, etc.

 

[Kemug]

Then she backtracked and said she didnt have a tape measure, so how could she have possibly known how much of the BW she ate

Ms Smartypants.

 

[MrJ]

Accused was 'freaking out' after lunch, but is innocent of murder, jury told​

Mr Mandy also told the jury it should not accept the prosecution's claim that the accused's decision to dump a dehydrator containing death cap residue and lie to police about it was the incriminating conduct of a murderer.

He said instead, a conversation in which Ms Patterson alleged her husband suggested she had used her dehydrator to poison his parents formed a "turning point" after which she began "panicking".

"She was freaking out. People were blaming her, understandably, because whichever way you look at it, it was her fault," Mr Mandy said.

He said this extended to Ms Patterson's "stupid" decision to carry out multiple factory resets of a phone she gave to police.

"[It's] entirely consistent with someone who panicked for no good reason at all, because there was nothing to be achieved by factory resetting [the phone]," Mr Mandy said.

He said Ms Patterson's evidence on the innocent reasons for changing between two phones should be accepted over a "convoluted" theory put forward by prosecutors.

"They want you to use the absence of evidence to fill the gaps," he said.

Erin Patterson's lawyer urges jury to reject 'convoluted' triple-murder case

Ms Patterson's lawyer has told the jury in her triple-murder trial she emerged "unscathed" from cross-examination, as his closing address came to an end.

www.abc.net.au