Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[lazymaiden07]

And as I posted way back, if she hadn't been too rich and lazy to get a job, she wouldn't have had enough time to plot murders, and dream up imaginary illnesses. MOO

You know what they say about idle hands....

 

[Monstradamus]

He dismisses the prosecution's argument that the behaviour proves Ms Patterson lived a "duplicitous life", and says it shows his client was honest and frank with the people she was closest with'

He says Ms Patterson merely lied to hide her habits of binge-eating.

Honest and frank, and yet 'merely lied'? So which one is it then?

He tells the jury that the focus on the messages is an attempt to "undermine" the evidence of Ms Patterson's strong relationship with her in-laws.

Such a 'strong' relationship that Gail stopped reading Erin's messages due to the increased stress and anxiety they caused.

Mandy is at such painsssss to talk about how well Erin and Simon were getting along...why then was Erin accusing him of being abusive and coercive? But please Col', do tell us just how swell the relationship was.

What is so frustrating about this is that Don and Gail are the only ones who can truly attest to the relationship they had with Erin, and of course, they can't. Mandy needs to can the family values garbage and stick with the facts.

MOO

The relationship was so "strong" he didn't interact with EP or his parents and Aunt & Uncle when he dropped off the kids after lunch.
MOO

 

[Kemug]

now13.05 AEST
Mandy says Patterson testified she led her lunch guests to believe she may be needing upcoming cancer treatment. Patterson acknowledged she lied to her guests and said they showed a lot of compassion, the court hears.

Patterson said she lied because she was ashamed about her upcoming weight-loss surgery and of not having control over her body and what she ate.

In cross-examination, Patterson rejected the prosecution’s suggestions that she told her lunch guests she had cancer, the court hears.

Ian Wilkinson’s evidence was that after the lunch Patterson told her guests she had cancer and asked for advice about how to tell her children. Wilkinson said Patterson mentioned a “diagnostic test” for cancer.

Mandy says when Ian was cross-examined, it was pointed out to him that in his police statement he said Patterson announced “she had a suspected cancer.” Pressed about this, Ian said he “believed” Patterson was saying she had cancer at the lunch.

Oo, that's a curly one, isn't it? Who to believe - the kind, upright pastor, whom no-one has a bad word to say about? Or the self-confessed lying, potty-mouthed, arrogant person in the dock? Hmm, let me think.
MOO

 

[Kemug]

who is to say in what order people should discuss matters? perhaps the guests were waiting for the host to initiate the conversation to be polite?

Yes, I just can't envisage them charging in the door and saying " Well, what's this all about? Come on, tell us!"

 

[IBR]

15:20

Surviving guest wrong about plates, jury hears​

Mr Mandy continued to address the jury about Patterson's plates, reminding them of evidence given throughout the trial including his client's son's friend who described white plates in the sink.
'Search warrant video showed two black plates, two white plates and some colourful plates,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said there was no 'orangey-tan' plate as described by Mr Wilkinson.
Mr Mandy said Patterson's son's evidence the plates were white should be believed.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I call the narrative of the white plates BS. The kids and the son’s friend arrived after the lunch had ended, probably while or after they were having dessert. The small white plates the son took to the kitchen and put in the dish washer would have been the dessert plates. They had nothing to do with the four grey and the one orange/tan plate the lunch had been served on.

 

[Kemug]

The thing that puzzles me is, if you plan to kill Simon and his family.

Why would you proceed if Simon wasn't coming? Why not postpone it so he will be there?

What, after she'd been to all that trouble and expense?!

 

[lazymaiden07]

The relationship was so "strong" he didn't interact with EP or his parents and Aunt & Uncle when he dropped off the kids after lunch.
MOO

Yesssss.....great point.

 

[Kemug]

No wonder they are having frequent breaks, it's to wake the jury up..!

Or they need to throw up.

 

[Kemug]

We're out for another break​

​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy says he will take us to the July 29 lunch once again.

Justice Beale jumps in and says we will take a break first.

Back soon.

RSBM
I think it's Justice Beale who needs all these breaks! He's just about had all he can take, IMO

 

[CityKid]

Erin Patterson mushroom trial day 34 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

1m ago10.48 AEST
Mandy says the jury must engage their heads and not their heart to intellectually examine the evidence.

“It doesn’t matter what you would have done in a situation,”

Mandy says it is impossible for jurors to know how they would behave in a situation.”

Mandy says Patterson has acknowledged she made lies.

“She’s not on trial for being a liar,” he says.

He says nothing Patterson did afterwards changes what her intention was when she served the beef wellington meal.

Share

3m ago10.47 AEST
Colin Mandy SC says the prosecution has invited the jury to “think about what you would do in the situation if this was really a horrible accident”.

Mandy says the prosecution was inviting the jury to engage in an activity that could be seductive but is flawed because it is based on hindsight.

“What hindsight reasoning does, in a way, is to shift the burden of proof on to the defence,” he says.

“It’s the prosecution’s job to prove what the accused actually did and not to engage in a hypothetical comparison of what you or someone else might do in the same situation.”

Mandy says the prosecution should be relying on the evidence.

He says when you know the outcome of a situation and reflect on it “things might become clear.”

MOO His argument that “It doesn’t matter what you would have done in a situation” is not being made in good faith. He's telling jurors to ignore their common sense and accept the multitude of lies EP has been caught in. I know he's trying his best to defend the legal process and give his client the best possible chance, and he's really been given nothing, but a jury of ordinary, impartial citizens will naturally look back at the layers of evidence and connect the dots, which can only be done in hindsight. MOO Saying “What hindsight reasoning does, in a way, is to shift the burden of proof on to the defence” is also contradictory to the trial process, in which the jury is meant to evaluate all the evidence, which should be examined in totality in deliberations, which will of course be in hindsight.

 

[CityKid]

Two minutes is an eternity of time for being on a webpage.

I agree. And it's plenty of time to use your phone to take a photo of the page as a reference.

 

[CityKid]

12:12

Defence again attacks lack of motive​

Mr Mandy said the prosecution had been selective in the messages they produced for the jury and failed to provide them in context.
He said people often showed a different side to themselves to different people.
Mr Mandy also addressed the eye rolling emojis in some of those messages.
The defence barrister suggested Patterson likely thought prayer wasn't going to sort out her issues with Simon, as suggested by Don.
'In the heat of the moment Erin might not have thought prayer [would fix the issue] or be pragmatic enough…,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy also said Patterson may have regretted sending those messages to her online friends.
'Obviously, benefit of hindsight, she's ashamed… she might've regretted [the messages] two seconds after sending them,' Mr Mandy said.
Mr Mandy said the messages were being used by the prosecution to undermine Patterson's 'loving relationship' with Don and Gail and he again attacked the Crown's decision to offer the jury no motive for the alleged crimes.

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

BBM. I guess now hindsight is OK? Sigh.

 

[Detechtive]

There were no whole pieces of DC mushrooms---they were in a powdered form. So they would have been spread evenly as they would infiltrate everything.


And Gail only ate half of hers.

We have seen articles disputing that vomiting would be very helpful. I think the P discussed that briefly.

Her vomiting in the late afternoon would have little impact because the deadly toxins in the powder would QUICKLY enter her blood stream and digestive tract before she purged.

That^^^ does not matter. The deadly toxins go immediately into the blood stream. It does not matter how much extra weight she had---that will not stop the poison from invading her organs and shutting things down.

Again, that makes little difference. When deadly toxins enter your blood stream and begin to shut down your organs, age does not protect you.

I’d actually argue that the in laws were healthier than Erin even though they were much older. Don was extremely fit and healthy in particular. They didn’t drink or smoke and were in good health and physical activity.

Erin on the other hand never exercised and that’s why I first doubted she foraged, she’s more of a couch potato type. IMO

 

[Kemug]

That's what I think, she gave him a chance by possibly cooking the extra Beef Wellington, and when she knew he wasn't coming, that was thrown into the bin.

RSBM.
And, like Scarlett O'Hara, maybe she thought "Tomorrow is another day!" ie "Oh well, I'll leave him until later." IMO

 

[CityKid]

'It's a fact, it's evidence, it's not made up,' he [Mandy] said.
He said Patterson would 'pick all kinds of mushrooms'.
He said when Patterson found a mushroom she didn't know, she would try it and if it was okay 'eat more of it'.

Wait what? Who walks around picking random mushrooms they can’t identify and then eating them? If that were true, she would have poisoned herself long before making any beef Wellingtons.

(Also, if someone says, “it’s a fact, it’s evidence, it’s not made up” I’m definitely inclined to think it’s totally made up.)

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE updates

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

MOO more of the "trust me bro, I lied a lot but I'm not lying now" defence.

 

[BerylTutu]

What, after she'd been to all that trouble and expense?!

To punish him.

I think she had gone through so much to get to that point that she just threw caution to the wind and forged ahead hoping he would change his mind or drop in later maybe.

 

[Kemug]

Mr Mandy also said Simon said Patterson did not have matching plates
'He believed Patterson had a random selection of plates,' Mr Mandy said.

RSBM
Simon said? So Simon was regularly eating there? Still?

 

[Kemug]

Key Event
1m ago

More on the plates used at lunch​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy goes to the police interview of Ms Patterson's son, who also claimed to see white plates.

Her son described the plates as 15cm in diameter, with a 5cm edge on them.

Mr Mandy tells the jury to ignore the size suggested by Ms Patterson's son, as that would make them very small.

He instead tells the jury to focus on the colour of the plates.

RSBM
So the son's testimony of the plates being white is to be believed, but not his testimony as to their size. Oh, ok. Did someone mention "cherry picking"?

 

[Lisa4]

Yeah don't get me wrong, I think he is doing an excellent job considering what he has to work with (not much), but it isn't working to poke holes in the prosecutions case, IMO.

 

[Kemug]

Key Event
1m ago

Defence addressed how much Ms Patterson ate at lunch​

​

By Judd Boaz​

Mr Mandy turns to how much Erin Patterson ate at the lunch.

Ms Patterson says she only ate around one half of her portion, which Mr Mandy says is not contradicted by other witnesses.

He says it is an inexact estimation, and would be difficult to measure.

"How would you know if you ate exactly half or not?" he asks the jury.

RSBM
Words fail me.