Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #15 *Arrest*

[katydid23]

Please where is a link that Baden Clay is a psychopath. I don't recall that diagnosis, except in rumour.

Sociology
Criminology
Narcissistic Rage and the Murder of Allison Baden-Clay

Download Free PDF

Narcissistic Rage and the Murder of Allison Baden-Clay​

Ian Freckelton AO KC
2017, Psychiatry, Psychology and Law

https://doi.org/10.1080/13218719.2017.1379113

 

[katydid23]

No menopausal rage mentioned? It's a thing

well, she put on her cream coloured pants for a long road trip so I doubt she was on her cycle that day.

 

[katydid23]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Didn't she say the mixture was too moist, and that is why she added dried mushrooms. MOO

Not that I remember. IIRC, she said it was 'too bland.' Which made it odd that she didn't taste it afterwards.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I've thought many times in this case that even if EP is innocent, surely she has done some things that would be classed as criminal ie tampering with evidence but also whether accidental use of poisonous mushrooms is an adequate excuse.

It seems to me that if you are going to use foraged mushrooms then you should have to tell the people who are having the meal. After this case, I'd be furious if I found out somebody had cooked a meal with foraged mushrooms and not told me. It seems like the sort of thing you should have to consent to.

I find it strange that she didn't tell her lunch guests that she had used foraged mushrooms...

 

[katydid23]

With respect, this doctor only said he behaved like a psychopath. That is very different from GC having been diagnosed as a psychopath. That was my point. Rumours vs facts

If a Doctor says someone 'behaves' like a psychopath after noting they brutally killed their wife, does that seem likely that he WAS in fact a psychopath?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

With the poisoning theory, as with the murder theory, it is reliant on DC not being discovered. Most of us suspect that Simon was poisoned without discovery and her panicked actions started straight after DC were mentioned.

With the poisoning however, EP is far less of a suspect because she has after all gotten ill against a spectrum of illness. This is far more believable than 4 on their death beds and one person having diahorrea. Even if they hadn't found DC, she would have obviously been the prime suspect. This isn't necessarily true with poisoning, I don't think she was suspected about Simon's illness although I'll admit I'm not sure.

Without identification of the poison, there could have been a number of different possibilities, some innocent some not. There also wouldnt necessarily have been significant police involvement like there was with deaths. This is possibly naive, but not as naive as thinking 4/5 would die and you wouldn't instantly be the suspect.

She allegedly tried to poison SP on 3 occasions. I wonder if he suspected her at the time, or only since his parents and aunt and uncle were poisoned?

 

[Monstradamus]

Not that I remember. IIRC, she said it was 'too bland.' Which made it odd that she didn't taste it afterwards.

Mandy told the Jury she most likely retasted it after adding her extra special ingredients.

 

[katydid23]

I think it's like most things, fresh is best. Oh the smell of fresh field mushrooms picked from a paddock!

So TRUE. And I think it's very odd that she picked these delicious, fresh wild mushrooms but never ate any of the while they were fresh.

Instead of making a nice salad or simmering them in butter or an omelette, she just dehydrated them all, powdered them and put them in Tupperware?

Is that what people normally do when they pick fresh mushrooms? I can understand dehydrating th leftovers. But never tasting any of them while fresh?

 

[Monstradamus]

She allegedly tried to poison SP on 3 occasions. I wonder if he suspected her at the time, or only since his parents and aunt and uncle were poisoned?

He allegedly told his GP about his concerns. The penny dropped, and I think that's why he acted so quickly, making sure everyone got to hospital, imo.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Everything is far away in country Australia. But I believe she had a specific reason to travel to those two out of area places. You don't just drive there for the fun of it, and you would certainly remember going there, imo.

Why would you travel to those 2 locations when you can forage mushrooms in the town that you live in?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

He allegedly told his GP about his concerns. The penny dropped, and I think that's why he acted so quickly, making sure everyone got to hospital, imo.

Oh, really? I didn't know that he told his GP about his concerns.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I know what you mean.

Her defense is basically OOPS MY BAD---accidentally poisoned my 3 in-laws.

But when she took the stand, instead of showing remorse and asking for mercy, she did the opposite.

She never really admitted to anything or apologised for anything. Her attorney says she admits to foraging and accidentally serving death caps.

But she never really took accountability. She masked that possibility in 'maybe it was the Asian mushrooms' ----maybe I added wild mushrooms in accidentally but don't really know....

Nowhere did she show sorrow or grief or remorse for such an egregious mistake.

Not the actions of an innocent person IMO.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

With respect, this doctor only said he behaved like a psychopath. That is very different from GC having been diagnosed as a psychopath. That was my point. Rumours vs facts

I wonder how he'd score on the Hare Psychopathy checklist?

Interestingly, it's not uncommon for narcissists or psychopaths to have multiple relationships simultaneously...

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Sociology
Criminology
Narcissistic Rage and the Murder of Allison Baden-Clay

Download Free PDF

Narcissistic Rage and the Murder of Allison Baden-Clay​

Ian Freckelton AO KC
2017, Psychiatry, Psychology and Law

https://doi.org/10.1080/13218719.2017.1379113

Could I just make the comment that this is a forum, not a court of law. We should be able to speculate whether a killer is a narcissist or a psychopath, even though we are not psychiatrists or psychologists. It's probably important to add IMO.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

One thing that both Baden-Clay and Erin would have learnt, is that it's difficult to feign real tears...

 

[BreakingNews]

If she's found guilty she will die behind bars. She's 50, and 3 x life sentences for Murder, and 1 x 25 years for Attempted Murder. There's no getting out of that, imo.

In Australia, sentences are usually served concurrently.

 

[BreakingNews]

A character reference from someone in the local community to support what accused and Mandy were saying would have strengthened the defence though. All we have is the word of the accused.

As I said, EP does not have to prove her innocence.

 

[lazymaiden07]

One thing that both Baden-Clay and Erin would have learnt, is that it's difficult to feign real tears...

I haven't seen this before. Just gross.

Oh, really? I didn't know that he told his GP about his concerns.

It's incredible to me how he could still be so civil towards her when he must've had his suspicions. The text where he was declining lunch still showed magnanimity ie offering to discuss her health concerns at a later date, even though he wasn't attending the lunch.

 

[katydid23]

This is often asserted and maybe it is true. It is certainly true for in-the-moment killings.

Off the top of my head, I struggle to think of an example where somebody has planned a murder months in advance and not considered the aftermath at all. Not only that, but there was no actual gain for them and only likely negative consequences.

As many have stated---it is quite possible that she did consider the aftermath but she badly underestimated how quickly they would focus upon the mushrooms.

If she had been behind Simon's mystery gastro issues, she would have learned that it often takes quite awhile to accurately diagnosis an unknown illness. She would have felt empowered by that experience, imo.

I don't think she planned this specific murder scenario----Her in-laws and their sister and husband---many months ago.

But I do think she planned retribution against Simon for quite some time. She grabbed those death caps as ammo but may not have had specific plans for who, how, what, where yet.

She did gain some things----but not in a rational, logical way.

 

[katydid23]

As I said, EP does not have to prove her innocence.

She doesn't have to. But if the prosecution lays out a very convincing case with lots of incriminating evidence, then YES, her defense team needs to rebut some of it if she is going to walk away free.