VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[Kemug]

The judge in Erin Patterson's murder trial has warned jurors not to reason that she is guilty just because they think she has lied.

RSBM
"Think"? What is this "think" you speak of?

 

[Kemug]

Will you tell us when this case is over?

Or do you mean "wake me up"?

 

[Way2Invested]

This is just me idly thinking (maybe even speculating?!) Let's just imagine that the "unmarriage" was on a pretty even keel until Simon had the actual temerity to describe himself as "separated" on his tax return, on the advice of his accountant. For some reason this really enraged Erin. In fact, apparently she was incredibly enraged. Until then, I think she had always had the upper hand in this marriage and "partnership" - she had more money, and more say in making decisions. Possibly she was always the stronger character. And then for Simon to suddenly call himself "separated" without so much as a by-your-leave! She may have thought that was for her to decide. Maybe her pride was seriously dented. And it may have been sometimes convenient for her to have a husband on tap.
Whatever, I believe it wasn't too long after that, that Simon was dangerously ill in hospital? Some seriously suspect Erin. As do I, actually. Not just of "punishing" Simon by making him suffer, but of actually attempting to murder him. No, a normal person wouldn't act like that. But IMO Erin is not normal, far from it. Simon had really just recovered from his time in hospital when Erin struck again (IMO). It would look really suspicious if exactly the same thing happened to Simon again. So this time she decided to add his family to the mix, to disguise Simon being the real target. She must have been so furious when he didn't come to the poisoned feast! If she gets off, Simon would do well to move a long long way away. Of course this is just MOO!

I like your thinking but the previous alleged attempts on Simon's life, including the one that put him in a coma, all occurred before he declared himself separated on his tax return. Perhaps it was as a result of his suspicions that he gave up hope of living together as family again in the future?
I suspect that Erin had been trying remove him permanently from hers and the children's lives for some time but it had to be on her terms and a legal separation with shared custody was not what she wanted hence the last ditch effort to lure him back for the final attempt.
All moo.

 

[potr]

Snipped.

Whether it's a school kid trying to avoid their math test, or an adult trying to prove to a doctor that she was poisoned, an exaggeration becomes a lie when the purpose is to deceive.

yes - I cannot help but think of the reason and origins of the actual oath in courts of law - that actually acknowledge that exagerating or downplaying, acting literally, or only narrowly answering what is asked - playing semantics is because truth telling is - telling the thruth; whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think a lot of people would think it's fair if the Judge was very obviously leading the jurors in the direction of finding EP guilty.

I'm beginning to think a bias in that direction would be just perfectly fine with many.

Trying to be fair and putting both sides views to the jurors seems to be frowned upon.

 

[Susjay]

But how would she fill her days? We (allegedly) know she is work-shy, probably couldn't be trusted to sweep under the mats and in the corners.
They wouldn't trust her in the kitchen. And I don't think they'd let her "surf the net" all day every day. Didn't she once work in animal welfare? Maybe she could help raise guide dogs, or something like that? But certainly not air traffic control.

She has to be removed from general prison population for her own safety remember - that’s where she is now.

 

[Susjay]

I cannot fathom it, I told him he could get a job as a court reporter - its absolutely incredible to me that someone can get an entire days proceedings exact, word for word - but he is doing that -

caveat except for the bits he has deemed morally he cannot share such as not saying peoples names and refusing to share any information regarding interactions with the children - and although he didn't say i did notice that early on he did not mention any of the talk about erin's "weight loss" surgery/ eating disorders which I put down to censoring about healthcare issues.

Some peeps can do word for word recording. I had an aunt who did shorthand - so when she was with you she would record conversations on the back of her cigarette packet. She kept them all. It was like a dossier of what everyone ever said. Weird

 

[Susjay]

Not only is this not a strong possible motive, the prosecution haven't come close to proving it.

I would hazard a guess that if I was given the phones of 95% of the people on here I would find instances of people talking in a very negative way about people that they actually like. You certainly would on mine. I've mentioned before how my in-laws can drive me up the wall but I love the bones of them.

An extremely ordinary family dispute is not a likely motive for murder. It is a possible one in an actual psychopath, but again this has never remotely been proven with EP.

I’m getting the impression that the accused maybe displayed some characteristics that made it more comfortable for others to keep her at a distance. It appears that most of her social/family contact was conducted online or in texting or messaging rather than in phone calls or meeting face to face.

 

[Kemug]

But not only is this not a strong possible motive, the prosecution haven't come close to proving it. An extremely ordinary family dispute is not a likely motive for murder. It is a possible one in an actual psychopath, but again this has never remotely been proven with EP.

RSBM
Hi Max, did you see my current speculation (in what was then #457) that it is Simon whom Erin has been trying to kill all along? Ever since he called himself "separated"? And it's possible he was seeing someone else, she followed him and confirmed it. That would have been like "a red rag to a bull." She would have thought it was just the same as being unfaithful. I have come to agree with you that killing your partner's family because you think they side with him against you is not enough of a motive for murdering them. Not remotely. And she should therefore maybe be found Not Guilty because of that lack of motive.
But as a coverup for the "accidental" poisoning and death of Simon? I think she was quite happy to sacrifice them, probably couldn't care less if they lived or died. I wouldn't give any credence to her statement of how much she loved them. I don't think she is capable of true love, not even towards her children.
I wonder if LE will investigate further, and maybe recharge her for the attempted murder of Simon, whether she is found guilty or not? They left it open. I would be interested to know your views on this.

 

[BreakingNews]

RSBM
Well for a start, she didn't have much else to do. Her children were in school, she didn't work, and apparently she seldom bothered to cook a proper meal.

All mother's 'work'

 

[Susjay]

All mother's 'work'

We did hear from FB I think that the accused hired a cleaner when with Simon and he didn’t know… well if you have the money… We often choose the easy way, let’s be honest. But buying pre-made mashed potato for a special meal is a crime against cuisine. Not adding butter, honey and roasted slivered almonds to green beans has to be a culinary violation of some sort. Even the button mushrooms were pre sliced.

 

[seekingjustice**]

Sorry to bring up the poo talk again, but I was just thinking about the whole bush poo situation - like, when she allegedly picked it up and put it in the bag. Wouldn't it still have been diarrhea at that point? Or would the Imodium have kicked in and made it more solid? I just figured there wouldn't be much left in the body to actually be solid..

 

[Deleted member 363451]

RSBM
"Think"? What is this "think" you speak of?

You couldn't make it up...

 

[Deleted member 363451]

I think a lot of people would think it's fair if the Judge was very obviously leading the jurors in the direction of finding EP guilty.

I'm beginning to think a bias in that direction would be just perfectly fine with many.

Trying to be fair and putting both sides views to the jurors seems to be frowned upon.

I don't think that it's fair of the judge to lead the jurors in finding Erin Patterson guilty or not guilty.

A judge should always be neutral and apply the rules of the court and law fairly.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Sorry to bring up the poo talk again, but I was just thinking about the whole bush poo situation - like, when she allegedly picked it up and put it in the bag. Wouldn't it still have been diarrhea at that point? Or would the Imodium have kicked in and made it more solid? I just figured there wouldn't be much left in the body to actually be solid..

I could have done without that mental image in my mind...

 

[BreakingNews]

^^^ this!
Lying to conceal the truth. Nobody lies that much if it's accidental, surely?
MOO

Pathological liars???

 

[Jake18]

Ed

Sorry to bring up the poo talk again, but I was just thinking about the whole bush poo situation - like, when she allegedly picked it up and put it in the bag. Wouldn't it still have been diarrhea at that point? Or would the Imodium have kicked in and made it more solid? I just figured there wouldn't be much left in the body to actually be solid..

i thought she left the poo in the bushes but took the soiled wipes with her?

All moot, though, because I don’t think the bush poo happened - something else was thrown away in that toilet, IMO

 

[BreakingNews]

I feel like the jury has been provided with the tip of the iceberg only, and whatever is lurking under the surface, they’re not aware of. IMO

That is usually the reality of the situation. You can have attempted murder charges previously, but the jury isn't told of this. They have to believe reasonable doubt on what is presented by the prosecution. It's the prosecution that has to prove guilt.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Yes, I dispute Max's allegations that it's 95%. Even if I'm in a fight with them, I don't trash talk my relatives online. That's just idiotic to do so and think it wouldn't get back to them. There's only one relative of mine that I badmouth to anyone, and it's because he did actually assault me. And I still haven't posted his name.

I would be interesting to know more about the nature of this online group that EP was discussing her personal and family affairs within. Was she sharing intimately her thoughts and feelings with a group of women she had come to know over many years? A small, private, group where people had over a long time established the safety and freedom to speak in confidence about things troubling them.

Or was she generally running people in her life down quite openly in barely private arenas? And everything in between?

JMO MOO

 

[BreakingNews]

I don't think that it's fair of the judge to lead the jurors in finding Erin Patterson guilty or not guilty.

A judge should always be neutral and apply the rules of the court and law fairly.

I believe that is what he is doing. Everybody is innocent until proven guilty. And the defence has to prove that guilt 'beyond reasonable doubt'. I think the judge is just pointing out the doubt. It's the law. And sometimes we don't fully understand the law until we dive deep into it.