VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[Detechtive]

100% agree - I think EP was a mixture. Driven by hate, revenge and vengeance plans. Feeling superior and grandiose and I reckon she's probably got away with a vast amount of dishonest, manipulative and straight up deranged behaviour all her life without being challenged and having never had much or any consequences. Defiant, dishonest, arrogant, controlling. A game she's probably always 'won' at with her husband, friends, neighbours, colleagues, relatives, children.

Due to personality disorder(s) and lack of empathy / moral compass and arrogance, she IMO probably imagined she'd lie and front her way out of this as she's always done.

I do think she wasn't expecting the extreme sudden deaths and also is blindsided by SP accusing her of poisoning. I expect SP has changed quite a lot in recent years, using boundaries and moving away from her, and this was what destabilised her in the first place and also meant she didn't account for his new way of being in her plan / lack of plan.

I wonder if she's killed anyone before? Anyone vulnerable, isolated, alone who was found deceased after a sudden illness? Maybe an elderly person or suchlike.

JMO MOO

You seem very astute!

 

[Monstradamus]

The real issue is that they are missing that one big irrefutable piece of evidence that makes a case a slam dunk.

They have a lot, but much of it, eg the cell phone data pings, isn’t robust enough to fully withstand the defence picking holes in it — which Mandy did a great job of IMO.

I wonder if there are pieces of evidence, such as relating to her alleged poisoning of SP, that could be brought in a retrial to swing the balance.

I myself find I’m stuck in a middle limbo land right now of feeling personally convinced she did it, but not entirely convinced the prosecution have proven it beyond reasonable doubt.

I would like to hear from an expert testifying as to the likelihood of seepage from DC toxins into the meat of a BW to disprove the leftovers theory. And also more about how quickly and violently ill one would be after ingesting even just a teeny tiny amount of DCs.
I would also like the police to go back further into EP's online history.
And I would really like them to find Phone A, the lunch dishes and cutlery, and the Tupperware container.
Does anyone know if police were able to get any information from Phone A (aside from noting the sim was used to make 2 phone calls after the police search), without the actual physical phone/sim card?

 

[whiskia]

Also, EP is a wealthy woman. Her children can eat well. Why on earth would she be scraping bits of food off other people's meals for them to eat pieces and scraps? Doesn't add up.

JMO MOO

If the kids ate a lot of junk food surely they would have gobbled up the pastry too if she had 'scraped the mushrooms off'
IMO

 

[Way2Invested]

Pretty sure their mother was still alive when they died. She was in her late 90's.

I think it was actually their dad, not their mum, who was still alive.

 

[Sarahlou]

I don’t think innocent people tell lie after lie after lie. If I was on the jury, I would not take very long to reach my verdict.

I'd need about a minute

But seriously, I think there are probably one or two jurors that are disagreeing with the majority.
Or maybe not, maybe they're just being very thorough, as they should be.

 

[MrJ]

I think they're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's so to speak, making sure they're absolutely certain before deciding, looking over the judge's instructions, the trial evidence. I suspect we'll find out the verdict tomorrow

 

[Yh5r]

I think they're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's so to speak, making sure they're absolutely certain before deciding, looking over the judge's instructions, the trial evidence. I suspect we'll find out the verdict tomorrow

I second this, my exact thoughts too. Let's hope we are right!

 

[Scuffy35]

I would like to hear from an expert testifying as to the likelihood of seepage from DC toxins into the meat of a BW to disprove the leftovers theory. And also more about how quickly and violently ill one would be after ingesting even just a teeny tiny amount of DCs.
I would also like the police to go back further into EP's online history.
And I would really like them to find Phone A, the lunch dishes and cutlery, and the Tupperware container.
Does anyone know if police were able to get any information from Phone A (aside from noting the sim was used to make 2 phone calls after the police search), without the actual physical phone/sim card?

Just like I have been saying for the last few threads on the toxins. The others are down to sloppy police work that I also mentioned, but unfortunately much is now a lost opportunity as they did a terrible job of monitoring Erin and properly cataloging lunch items during the house search.

Then they got a so called expert to do the computer analysis that was not qualified, never used the software tool before, could not determine if the recovered data was local lime or UTC time and needed assistance from colleagues. Maybe the can do the computer analysis again and better if they have another opportunity., including more searches and going back further. I can't believe they did not even search for keywords "Amanita" "phalloides".

 

[Sarahlou]

I think they're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's so to speak, making sure they're absolutely certain before deciding, looking over the judge's instructions, the trial evidence. I suspect we'll find out the verdict tomorrow

I think you might be right. I think the time they've taken so far is expected given how much they have to go through.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

​

​

What happens next as jury deliberations continue​

Media, court watchers, true crime fans and various other people including members of the prosecution are waiting around the small Latrobe Valley courthouse where jurors are still deliberating.

Once the jury reaches a verdict on whether Patterson is guilty or not guilty of murdering three lunch guests and attempting to murder Mr Wilkinson, parties including Justice Beale and the defence and prosecution will be notified.

Mr Wilkinson (pictured) has been present in person for most of the trial but hasn't been sighted since the jury was retired to deliberate.

Simon Patterson, Erin's estranged husband, has not been seen at the court since the early days of the trial which kicked off on April 28.

The next step after the jury alerts the court it has reached a verdict will be to give parties 15 minutes' notice to return to the courtroom for the result.

As a result, most media and legal representatives are keeping very close to courtroom 4 at Morwell where the verdict will be delivered.

Most interested parties are in the courthouse, but some are waiting at a nearby café and other media are gathering outside.
The jury will hand their verdict to Justice Beale via his tipstaff and then they will be asked to confirm the verdict.
Justice Beale will then thank the jury for their service and the trial will be over.
Daily Mail Australia is on hand to publish the verdict as soon as it is given.



Seven men and five women will determine Patterson's fate.

 

[Monstradamus]

I think they're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's so to speak, making sure they're absolutely certain before deciding, looking over the judge's instructions, the trial evidence. I suspect we'll find out the verdict tomorrow

At about 4.15pm

 

[ch_13]

If Erin had anticipated death or serious injury she would have known to expect a police investigation and would have taken advance steps to dispose of crucial evidence such as phones and the dehydrator.

RSBM.

She did do this. She had multiple phones and she was switching the SIM card between them. It's why Phone A was never found.

As for the dehydrator... I think Erin felt she had cleaned it sufficiently so it didn't need to be disposed of. But then later she had second thoughts and tried to get rid of it. It seems the police basically had to take it apart to find a couple of tiny food particles that were trapped inside the mechanism. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if she had just left it in her pantry instead of taking it to the tip. Maybe it wouldn't have gotten dismantled, and the mushroom residue would have never been discovered.


Edit - Especially if she had never posted about the dehydrator online with a photo of the death caps. There would haven't been any particular reason to draw their attention to that piece of equipment.

 

[MrJ]

At about 4.15pm

Or just after the lunch break

 

[Lisa4]

How does one move on from this? My brother was murdered in 2016 and that was awful. Imagine losing both of your parents and one aunt?

Oh... Jess... I am so very sorry for your loss... and I just cannot imagine the pain that must have brought on you and your family. Will be thinking of you often ♥

I realise I didnt explain the thought I had as I was typing my msg - I was thinking of simply moving on from this limbo of waiting for the verdict.

I do so hope it comes very soon

 

[Scuffy35]

Just reposting something I hadn't tagged as MOO that was subsequently deleted (my bad, sorry).
This is all very much MOO JMO IMOO etc etc

RSBM

Maybe it was because of Sub Judice rules. I don't think we can even give our own opinion on guilt or innocence under these rules.

I have been steering clear of giving my direct opiion as I think it would breach the rule. I am still very much confused by the rule as it seems very vague to me. Most here reveal their opinion on guilt/innocence indirectly.

Most of the stuff we write in this forum could potentially influence a juror if they were to read it.

 

[BreakingNews]

Regardless of the outcome of this trial, I wonder if the judge will deal with the lies as perjury? In Victoria the maximum penalty is 15 years.

What is perjury in Australia? - Lexology What is perjury in Australia?

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Oh... Jess... I am so very sorry for your loss... and I just cannot imagine the pain that must have brought on you and your family. Will be thinking of you often ♥

I realise I didnt explain the thought I had as I was typing my msg - I was thinking of simply moving on from this limbo of waiting for the verdict.

I do so hope it comes very soon

Thanks Lisa.

 

[Eloise]

RSBM

Maybe it was because of Sub Judice rules. I don't think we can even give our own opinion on guilt or innocence under these rules.

I have been steering clear of giving my direct opiion as I think it would breach the rule. I am still very much confused by the rule as it seems very vague to me. Most here reveal their opinion on guilt/innocence indirectly.

Most of the stuff we write in this forum could potentially influence a juror if they were to read it.

the general advice is: only discuss the things the jury have been told in court. And don't say whether you think the accused is guilty or not guilty.

 

[Scuffy35]

Regardless of the outcome of this trial, I wonder if the judge will deal with the lies as perjury? In Victoria the maximum penalty is 15 years.

What is perjury in Australia? - Lexology What is perjury in Australia?

Which were the lies that she may have told in her testimony could be proven to be lies though?

 

[Montrealaise]

Just reposting something I hadn't tagged as MOO that was subsequently deleted (my bad, sorry).
This is all very much MOO JMO IMOO etc etc
Drivers

An admiration for clever murderers, why couldn’t she be one too??

A sick fascination with poisoning, she enjoyed the last few times she dabbled so much but it could be sooo much sweeter…

Middle age crisis, despite having built a home, she wasn’t getting the feel goods she thought she would, so she was looking for something else to do that, how about notoriety???

Anger and resentment, stuck with goody 2 shoes religious family, time to break free, they not only no longer serve a purpose they are a hindrance… or BPD fear of abandonment so abandon rather than be seen to be abandoned (fits with NPD both grandiose-how dare they abandon me- or covert/vulnerable, I don’t deserve to be treated that way, poor me).

Simon was excluding her and was no longer an asset- even relationship with teenage son was not great and if nothing else that should not be the case…

Grandparents getting too much love and admiration when she felt she deserved to get it all.

Time to show people how smart she really is, not only her command of the English language and all of the nuances she can employ with regard to semantics but also her knowledge of the law and how trials work and how to be able to work the system eg you can lie and get away with it as you are not on trial for being a liar.

Time to flex her true power, scorched earth outcome very appealing. (Hide your strength and bide your time – no more).

Time to have total control over her children and their lives.

The plan I am forming is sooo clever, how could I not…? I can hardly wait…

BPD risk taking behaviour, FAFO.

NPD god complex, I won’t get caught and if I do, I will either get off Scott-free or I will be famous and be able to do most of what I enjoy in prison anyway.



Audacious plan

Make a flow chart for every potential flaw in plan and ways around it including getting caught, going to trial and prison (but knowing that won’t actually happen!)

Learn everything possible about death caps as a poison. Find death caps, dehydrate them to intensify the poison and take up less space, powder them and plan a lunch at which to use them to kill Simon and/or members of his family.

Make an appointment for cosmetic surgery in September as an incentive/reward for your cleverness and to mark the start of a new life.

Buy diet books to look like you care about your weight.

Post on facebook openly about the dehydrator and how it is being used to hide mushrooms in the kids’ brownies – gives a valid reason for having it as well as reducing the likelihood that she had knowingly used it for death caps. If she was continuing to use it afterwards why would she knowingly do that??

Make sure your relationship with all to be invited is squeaky clean and nicey -nice leading up to the lunch. “It’s the opposite way a cold-blooded calculating person would behave” according to Mandy. Have some over for a poison free practice run to lull them in to a false sense of security.

Use the medical issue as a lure and then as a way of making her seem less suspicious to her guests as they became ill (why would she kill us, she needs us).

Make sure the children aren’t there this time to keep them safe.

The more people invited the easier to get them there, the more innocent it seems and the more likely “someone” would be to survive.

Why would anyone suspect that she was trying to kill her support system, her children’s grandparents?? Why would she risk everything when life is so comfortable so good??

Do individual beef wellingtons but have posted questions re how to on facebook to make it seem like you were following others’ instructions.

Cook one single untainted portion before the other 5. Mark the pastry in a subtle way. Reheat it eg in an air-fryer in the butler’s pantry while the others cook in their poisonous juices in the oven. Produce 5 portions from the oven and swap out one for the clean serve. (If Simon had attended she may well have had seven portions prepared to do the same).

Use a different coloured plate but put the other plates where the guests would serve themselves from, Psychology 101

Make sure it tastes good so they eat it all up.

Hope that Simon comes in and guests rave so much about how delicious it was he has his portion there and then.

If he doesn’t, he’ll be so depressed by his family dying that he will become even less present and therefore effectively eradicated anyway.

Feign illness the night of the lunch and the next day just in case.

Dispose of tainted plates and cooking implements and any left-over untainted portion while son is at Subway.

Tell the children they are eating leftovers the next day when they are not.

If others are hospitalised, make sure to present to hospital as well and take in what the staff know to be able to act accordingly (both symptom wise and to quickly go home to set up back up plan- eg putting frozen poisoned beef wellington in bin in a paper bag if poisoning already suspected- again who would do that if they were guilty??)

Having back up plans for if things went wrong which defaulted to the “I panicked” plan – because she is not a panicker by nature it seems almost farcical that she thought she would be able to convince others that this was the case!

Pretend to be devastated, distressed and scatty if questioned.



How to get away with it

Must not seem planned, some parts hard to obfuscate so be sure to seem as unplanned as possible so doubt would be cast on those too. Play dumb as much as possible.

Take laxatives to mimic symptoms.

Try to delay mushroom poisoning diagnosis for long enough to not have incriminating samples done (of others and especially of self… delay delay delay) Also delay start of potential lifesaving treatment.

Deflect blame onto Asian mushrooms from some unknown store, deny foraging… deny deny deny.

If push comes to shove bring in the foraging story but in a way that sounds innocent and accidental (including the Tupperware container storage)

Claim Simon’s comments prompted the dehydrator binning so to look panicked rather than calculating (if it was a planned murder who would still have the dehydrator and then be stupid enough to dump it so openly and traceably??)

Blame the chance of losing the children on the panic and lying.

Be sure to get rid of phone evidence.

Take the stand and control the narrative as much as one can in the stand.

Get defence to play up the “she was lucky with the mix she got, fatter, younger, ate less, vomited etc” part of the evidence to make it seem more like she was actually poisoned too and why would anyone do that on purpose…?

Play on the fact that she has lived a pretty privileged life and has been a good mother and member of the church etc etc so no one sees the monster that lives inside.

Play up the everyday problems that resonate with joe public, being overweight, struggling with self-esteem.

Make sure the trial takes place in rural Victoria, potentially more malleable jurors and press will still cover it.

Mistakes

Thinking she is smarter than everyone else and that she had thought of everything to ensure her story was water tight.

Thinking that she would get away with it and therefore not being able to/ being mentally a bit blocked from being able to allow her planning ability to kick in as well for the cover up until she had to and by then she had missed crucial opportunities to cover her tracks better.

WEARING CREAM PANTS!!!!!!!!

Underestimating how sick her guests would get and how quickly.

Underestimating the combined power of digital footprints, LE, honest people’s testimony and DNA analysis of leftovers rather than microscopic analysis (that would not have showed death caps).

Over-estimating her non-existent/obviously inauthentic acting ability, her ability to think on her feet and come up with convincing lies. Her speech to the press sounded insincere and rehearsed.

Keeping the dehydrator when there was risk attached to having it (perhaps being so cocksure she would get away with it and not wanting to give up her expensive item that brought her so much pleasure and may be able to do so again someday?? A long-term project or hobby as Mandy says!!). Who knows whether or not Granny, Mum and Dad all had a little help at the end from dear Erin…?

Saying she had bulimia (doesn’t look like she does).

Making up lie about gastric bypass when it could be disproved.

Overestimating her ability to manipulate people and situations.



How she could have done it better

Bought a second dehydrator (with cash) and dumped the first one long before the lunch, the dehydrator in her kitchen would then be clean.

Not posted photos of the death caps.

Thought out and followed through better with the gastric bypass appointment plan.

Showed she cared to the family.

BOUGHT SOME BROWN PANTS!!!!!



Why Erin won’t care if she is found guilty

She may be a closet lesbian (she called it on her own mother) and not mind living in prison knowing that she is going to be remembered long after her death (a narcissists dream come true).

NPD BPD she will just adjust to her environment and find ways to feed her ego.

Again, JMO

"Make sure your relationship with all to be invited is squeaky clean and nicey -nice leading up to the lunch. “It’s the opposite way a cold-blooded calculating person would behave” according to Mandy." Actually, it's exactly the way a cold-blooded calculating murderer would behave: be super-sweet to your targets to lull them into a false sense of security so that they will accept the lunch invitation without suspecting a thing.