VERDICT WATCH Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #16 *Arrest*

[Deleted member 363451]

I've thought about that, but I don't think it would have been possible to hide such a concentrated mushroom taste in something that doesn't contain mushrooms. Unless it was Beef Stroganoff? But even then, it would have made the individual portions harder to control, which is why she went this way IMO.

I think that she got some sort of sick pleasure in letting the lunch guests think that they were getting a special meal that she'd gone to a lot of effort in cooking...

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I am worried.
Thought a result within 48 hours.
If, 'not guilty, Ep's life is ruined, anyway: doubtful reputation'. YIPPEE.
If guilty, YIPPEE, for family and other victims, knowing she is locked up.
If a retrial, EP will create more lies, and create some type of questionable evidence.
So worried.
Hope EP's money has dwindled, BUT I heard this may be a 'pro bono' case.
Hope not.

BUT, we don't know, if EP is guilty or not.
MOO.

BBM
There's soooo much information to sort through that, if given the weight it deserves, should take a lot of time to dissect. It may also depend on who the foreperson is, they may be a stickler for doing things by the book, carefully and methodically. What would be worse is if the jury came back in record time with a verdict that Erin could then say was rushed through and couldn't have been a fair discussion and ask for a retrial. (Not sure if that's a thing, but it seems to make sense to me.)

 

[Woolly]

I've thought about that, but I don't think it would have been possible to hide such a concentrated mushroom taste in something that doesn't contain mushrooms. Unless it was Beef Stroganoff? But even then, it would have made the individual portions harder to control, which is why she went this way IMO.

And harder to blame store bought ingredients or a foraging accident if things went south (as they obviously did). Can you imagine this trial if the meal had not contained mushrooms but all the other evidence remained the same? IMO, that would be an easy guilty verdict.

Now would the doctors have figured it out if the victims didn’t report eating mushrooms? I don’t know. I think they still would have, but it would have been later on, perhaps at autopsy. Maybe no more leftovers to test at that point, etc.

 

[SouthAussie]

Something to keep in mind ....


"Should they not reach a verdict on Friday, the jury may continue its deliberations into Saturday. However, they have discretion about how long they sit for on that day."

Erin Patterson mushroom trial: Jury fails to reach verdict on day five

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO,
I think that's a bit of a "with the benefit of hindsight" question. The answer may be clear, providing you already believe the prosecution have proven their case and that she is guilty.

If someone is contemplating whether Erin is guilty or not, personally, I don't think the fact that she made BW for her guests makes a difference either way.

I see your point though, if guilt is already in mind, it would be a pretty good choice of dish to hide them. Though mushroom soup may have worked. I think they could be hidden in mushroom gravy. Probably many options really.

I personally think that beef wellington was chosen for a couple of reasons:

1. Can make single serve portions
2. A layer of pastry over the toxin would contain the toxin to an adequate degree

A layer of pastry over the toxin would also stop any possible pungent smell from the "smelly" mushrooms

imo

 

[LinasK]

I saw a comment on another forum which seems so simple, but yet, it is quite profound in drilling down into whether this was intentional. "Why didn't she make roast chicken?".

Because you don't need mushrooms to make roast chicken???

 

[LinasK]

It's the only real recipe I can think of where you can hide mushrooms with an ammonia smell. Unless it was chicken and mushroom pies, or something. IMO

Oh like what we call Chicken Pot Pie?

 

[Bats]

I personally think that beef wellington was chosen for a couple of reasons:

1. Can make single serve portions
2. A layer of pastry over the toxin would contain the toxin to an adequate degree

A layer of pastry over the toxin would also stop any possible pungent smell from the "smelly" mushrooms

imo

Ahh yes, the single serve portion part. Got me there. Mushroom soup wouldn't work would it... haha

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Because you don't need mushrooms to make roast chicken???

If she had have used chicken she probably would have blamed it on Colonel Sanders.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

The mushroom murder trial continues with jury deliberations | 7NEWS​

 

[potr]

I don't see how they can get past 1. Yes she killed them, deliberately and intentionally.... not proven beyond reasonable doubt.

i think thats 2

 

[Lisa4]

It's the only real recipe I can think of where you can hide mushrooms with an ammonia smell. Unless it was chicken and mushroom pies, or something. IMO

One of the ladies reportedly told someone that afternoon prior to falling ill that the meal had been delicious.

Apparently fresh deathcaps taste delicious.

Just a theory here. Possibly the dried powdered mushrooms lost the "bad" smell on being heated and added an element of tastiness?

Some foods do smell bad but taste great. Vegemite anyone?

 

[Two SCents]

i think thats 2

Sorry, I didn't phrase that clearly.

1. The lunch guests were killed
2. Was it deliberate?
3. Did she intend to seriously harm or kill?

1. is obvious. 2. and 3. is where I imagine the jury are having in-depth discussions. If they get past 2. (which might not be possible) and look at 3. this could be where reasonable doubt comes into it IMO

 

[Warshawski]

I don't see why the kids can't have been asked to a greater degree of specificity about what they were fed. They must know exactly how their food looked and the surviving victim knows what the BW looked like.

To my recollection the son said he was fed meat cut in cubes that tasted delicious. Also the children would surely have known, in what way was this food prepared - was it something reheated or was it something freshly cooked and did you see mummy in the kitchen getting it ready.

JMO MOO

Imo the Son said he ‘cut the meat into cubes & ate it’

I think at some stage EP said she cut it into cubes. … who knows.

 

[SouthAussie]

Sorry, I didn't phrase that clearly.

1. The lunch guests were killed
2. Was it deliberate?
3. Did she intend to seriously harm or kill?

1. is obvious. 2. and 3. is where I imagine the jury are having in-depth discussions. If they get past 2. (which might not be possible) and look at 3. this could be where reasonable doubt comes into it IMO

I think #2 is the sticking point. Because if the jury decide it was deliberate, it would flow on that she intended to seriously harm or kill them and that she knew what she was doing.

If they decide it was not deliberate, 3 and 4 fall away.

imo

 

[Warshawski]

I would like to hear from an expert testifying as to the likelihood of seepage from DC toxins into the meat of a BW to disprove the leftovers theory. And also more about how quickly and violently ill one would be after ingesting even just a teeny tiny amount of DCs.
I would also like the police to go back further into EP's online history.
And I would really like them to find Phone A, the lunch dishes and cutlery, and the Tupperware container.
Does anyone know if police were able to get any information from Phone A (aside from noting the sim was used to make 2 phone calls after the police search), without the actual physical phone/sim card?

Without the handset / phone, Police are still able to get call & ping data from the network.

However, many apps store data on the phone, so they won’t have chat logs, browsing history, photos, any contacts not stored on sim, or other information that could be useful

MOO

 

[Susjay]

I am not thinking a long delay is necessarily going to be a NG outcome. Just that they are being thorough.

At one time, I did think there was a chance of a quick verdict, but when I thought about the sheer length of time and volume of material this trial has involved, I realised that was unlikely.

This is a high publicity trial so that also could add to the level of in-depth thoroughness they wish to achieve?

Personally, I would have to be triplely certain I was 100% settled and satisfied at every point that I had no reasonable doubts left.

Are they allowed to take material to their rooms and keep working on it alone in-between times?

Agree, I think Lisa is correct, I would want to be able to say - to myself more than anyone - that I gave this decision my best attention and analysis. That it was the best decision that I could make at that time.

 

[Porky1]

It is unprecedented in Australia in modern times for a born-and-bred Aussie to serve foraged mushrooms to others. I would say that must be because we all know from an early age (even if only a vague idea) that there's a huge risk.

Any cases that have involved the cook sharing them have been immigrants.

I disagree. You are generalising and in foodie circles, it’s not correct.

If I lived in an area where I could forage, I still would as I did as a child. I don’t think it’s unprecedented if you’re a foodie. Even in Sydney, there are autumnal expeditions in the mountains and ACT.

Born and bred Aussie country girl but a city dweller most of my adult life. I knew what was safe but our varieties weren’t as varied as the cooler areas.

I’d serve them but I also tell my guests that they were foraged

 

[katydid23]

SOOOOOO, looks like no decision until next week?

 

[Warshawski]

I believe that is the very first question they have to answer before they can move on to the next:




View attachment 599576

IMO :

#1 - it is already admitted that the lunch caused the death, and she has agreed that she put DC mushrooms in that meal

# 2 is the key question

EP says she accidentally put the DC in the meal

The Prosecution case is that EP deliberately put the DC in the meal

If the Jury’s answer to #2 is Yes, then imo that provides the answers for the end result,

I’m convinced that EP is clever & capable researcher, therefore I have no doubt that she was aware of DC mushrooms and of their death-causing toxicity.

Therefore IMO one would only add DC to someone’s meal with the intention to get rid of them permanently.


MOO
JMO