GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #17

[drsleuth]

Re only taking a few things with you.

I have lost count of the number of times I went somewhere that was indoors and realised it was too cold and I hadn't taken a cardigan or jacket with me.

Some of those times I ended up coming down with something after feeling too cold for two long.
Some of those times I was sick for days afterwards.

Just your phone, keys and sunglasses is not enough for everyone, no matter the weather.

Some of us like to be prepared. And EP was carrying stuff for not only herself but her children as well.

Everybody is not the same as everybody else.
Something we might do doesn't mean that everybody has to do the same thing and act the say way.

Tootsie we are talking about a hospital. Where blankets are supplied as well as food , water, medications power & even moble phone charger's or access to phones ( often that staff buy for patients as we get sick of being abused for people who don't have charge on their phone - like it's the staffs fault)

Do you think that Erin leaving hospital was the right thing to do in this situation ??

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Carrying face masks around is still quite common. Even more so in 2023.
Hospitals sometimes still ask you to wear them. GP medical practises as well.

There are even some businesses around here that like you to wear one.

It started with Covid.

 

[Marg944]

“Rogers reminds the jury of CCTV they have seen from Patterson stopping at a service station during this trip and entering the bathroom for 9 seconds.

Patterson testified that she entered the bathroom to dispose of the tissues she used to clean herself up.

“If she really did have diarrhoea in the bush ... it would take more than nine seconds of cleaning herself up or at a minimum to wash her hands,” Rogers says.

She says the jury should reject Patterson’s evidence that she entered the bathroom because she had diarrhoea on the side of the road.”

Erin Patterson mushroom trial day 32 – as it happened

This blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

 

[drsleuth]

Carrying face masks around is still quite common. Even more so in 2023.
Hospitals sometimes still ask you to wear them. GP medical practises as well.

There are even some businesses around here that like you to wear one.

It started with Covid.

At least they are very light weight.

Not sure what face masks have to do with this thread thou........

 

[SilentHill]

Why on earth would she put the dog poo bag in her handbag? Where are you getting this from, do you have a source?

I don't have time to dig through the thread right now but I'm fairly certain that was in her own testimony. Realistically what's the alternative here, that she just threw it in the car and her son never noticed? I very much doubt that IMO

 

[Monstradamus]

Why on earth would she put the dog poo bag in her handbag? Where are you getting this from, do you have a source?

Edited to add link.

Are you assuming because the dog poo bag isn't mentioned in the reporting it must have been in her handbag?


'CCTV footage from a Caldermeade BP station, about 70km southeast of Melbourne, was played to the jury, depicting Ms Patterson entering the store shortly after 3.20pm on July 30, 2023.

Wearing a grey long-sleeved top and white pants, with a black handbag slung over her shoulder, Ms Patterson gets out of her red MG car and visits the bathroom for nine seconds.'

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-phone-placed-in-vicinity-of-loch-outtrim-after-death-cap-sightings/news-story/6a9bc1f64a75656a29128c1d186cafc7

It was mentioned in this article.
About half an hour into the trip, Ms Patterson said she pulled over on the South Gippsland Hwy and ran into the bushland to relieve herself.

“I cleaned myself up with tissues, put them in a dog poo bag and put them into the handbag,” she said.

Earlier in the trial, the jury saw CCTV footage from a BP service station in Caldermeade, where Ms Patterson stopped and visited the bathroom for 9 seconds before buying items and leaving.

“I put the dog poo bag with the soiled tissues in the bin,” she said.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-mushroom-cook-set-to-return-to-witness-box-for-third-day-of-giving-evidence/news-story/3a869e4f6e5e7449cd22c99c9c021b4a

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think 9 seconds to toss a bag in a bin and wash your hands is not out of the question, especially if your kid is in the car waiting.

Re the handwashing. When out for a meal, using the restroom recently, when it came to washing my hands I thought I wonder how fast I can do this and do an ok job.

Then I tossed the paper towel in the bin. It took me all of 10 seconds.

Edited to say that I am a bit OCD when it comes to washing my hands and I wash them for all kinds of reasons apart from using the toilet.

I wash my hands after I've touched clothes going into the washing machine.
I wash them after I've emptied the robot vacuum cleaners or the normal vacuum
I wash them if I've touched raw chicken or the bag it was in.
I wash them if I touch the kitchen bin even slightly
I wash them for no particular reason "just in case"

So for my test on how fast I could wash my hands properly, my inspiration was Superman and it's amazing how fast I could do it and still feel that the washing was up to my high standard

 

[Two SCents]

I don't have time to dig through the thread right now but I'm fairly certain that was in her own testimony. Realistically what's the alternative here, that she just threw it in the car and her son never noticed? I very much doubt that IMO

I edited and added a source to my reply to Jake.

Wouldn't it be great if we could see the CCTV, then we would know exactly?

 

[Kalanit]

I think 9 seconds to toss a bag in a bin and wash your hands is not out of the question, especially if your kid is in the car waiting.

After explosive diarrhea squatting in the bush?? Brought on by supposed gastro?? Then touching half a dozen public food areas and the cashier station?? Wow.

 

[Yh5r]

Erin supposedly pooing by the side of the road and the 9 second bathroom visit seems to be blown out of proportion imo.

Even if Erin did have diarrhoea, it doesn’t convince me that it was caused by ingesting death caps. Diarrhoea can have many causes, anxiety after poisoning your lunch guests could be one.. Compared to the severe symptoms experienced by her lunch guests, having just diarrhoea (while still being able to go about her day) seems almost trivial. So, whether she had it or not doesn’t suggest guilt or raise reasonable doubt in my mind. MOO

 

[Two SCents]

It was mentioned in this article.
About half an hour into the trip, Ms Patterson said she pulled over on the South Gippsland Hwy and ran into the bushland to relieve herself.

“I cleaned myself up with tissues, put them in a dog poo bag and put them into the handbag,” she said.

Earlier in the trial, the jury saw CCTV footage from a BP service station in Caldermeade, where Ms Patterson stopped and visited the bathroom for 9 seconds before buying items and leaving.

“I put the dog poo bag with the soiled tissues in the bin,” she said.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/erin-patterson-trial-mushroom-cook-set-to-return-to-witness-box-for-third-day-of-giving-evidence/news-story/3a869e4f6e5e7449cd22c99c9c021b4a

OMG!! I hadn't seen that, thanks Monstradamus. I hope it's not misreporting.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I reliased re my experiment that the things we do can be done a lot faster than we usually do and still be done thoroughly.

 

[LadyL]

I can't speak on all hospitals, but it just so happens my son spent two days in a private hospital in Sydney last week. I sat with him for most of that time and had to duck back to my accommodation and get a warmer jacket because it was cold in the room.

I stand by my belief that she did not go to the hospital expecting to stay. My belief is supported by evidence she had Simon cancel their daughter's ballet rehearsal which was to be Monday evening.

You could speculate about why she had two bags and what was in them, but at the end of the day we simply don't know.
Imo

if she wasn't expecting to stay, why would she have Simon cancel the rehearsal?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think a lot of people don't wash their hands properly after using a toilet.

 

[Two SCents]

if she wasn't expecting to stay, why would she have Simon cancel the rehearsal?

She had him cancel the rehearsal once she was told she was staying.

 

[Monstradamus]

I think 9 seconds to toss a bag in a bin and wash your hands is not out of the question, especially if your kid is in the car waiting.

Re the handwashing. When out for a meal, using the restroom recently, when it came to washing my hands I thought I wonder how fast I can do this and do an ok job.

Then I tossed the paper towel in the bin. It took me all of 10 seconds.

And did you time how many seconds it took for you to walk to and from the sink from outside the bathroom? There's no way she washed her hands in that short space of time, imo.

 

[SilentHill]

I think a lot of people don't wash their hands properly after using a toilet.

That would include yourself if you think washing your hands in 10 seconds is doing a thorough enough job. How to wash your hands

 

[JBowie]

no. you never find out anything other than their verdict and they can never talk about it

That is the law in Oz, Britain and some other countries.

In the USA it's open slather. Jurors can and do appear on TV shows, give interviews, write books, etc. (IMO that can make the process a circus.)

 

[MrJ]

I'd rather think about a potential verdict arriving today than about toileting hygiene habits

 

[LadyL]

Unsafe verdict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Unsafe verdict​

In the context of a jury trial, the term unsafe verdict refers to a judicial finding that a jury's guilty verdict should be overturned.

Unsafe in this context means that the verdict or conviction was not based on reliable evidence and is likely to constitute a miscarriage of justice.

In most common law jurisdictions, people convicted at jury trial are allowed to have the evidence and transcript of their trial reviewed by an appellate court.

Verdicts can be found to be unsafe for either legal or factual reasons.

Unsafe verdicts by jurisdiction​

Australia​

Criminal appeals made on the ground that the jury's guilty verdict was unsafe and unsatisfactory have been some of the most controversial legal cases in Australia. Both the Lindy Chamberlain case, as well as the appeal that led to the acquittal of George Pell were appeals made on the unsafe verdict ground before the High Court.

Authoritative cases on the unsafe verdict ground in Australia include M v The Queen, and Pell v The Queen. The currently applied test is whether the guilty verdict was "open to the jury" to be satisfied of the accused's guilt beyond reasonable doubt
A finding of guilt by the jury will only be disturbed if the court makes a finding that the guilty verdict was not open to the jury.

what does 'open to the jury' mean?
we don't have those terms here