Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[SouthAussie]

\

On the other hand, some foster children are murdered by carers eg. Tiahleigh Palmer.

Tiahleigh Palmer: The 12-year-old murdered by her foster father

Australian Tiahleigh Palmer was killed by her foster father who feared his son had got her pregnant.

www.bbc.com

She ‘vanished’ too.

Isn't the most recent police theory that William may have died in a balcony fall?

It is a big step from a balcony fall to deliberately murdering a child.

imo

Police converge on THREE locations after ‘new evidence’ in William investigation

Police are investigating a new theory seven years in the making.

7news.com.au

 

[Mauig’ma]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> It is difficult to find figures on child cases that potentially fit an abduction scenario and a filicide scenario simultaneously …

Until William’s case is solved we don’t really know which category this case will fit ….and which figures will be most likely correct….and the figures for these 2 scenarios are vastly different…

I did manage to find this research paper on Solved Children’s Homicides that does compare Child Abduction Murder and Child Murder figures and statistics, albeit a USA Study ….

Investigative Case Management for Missing Children Homicides
Christine O. Gregoire
Attorney General of Washington &
U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2HrOXSWPXAxF67OMqbnLSKZG8icGuoDmweuGHJ5VhMlvtv4g_CDcyKAIQ

It makes some interesting points that could be well applied to William’s case.

Thanks for this. Very helpful and informative. More reason to think le are on the right track imo

 

[Chrissy74]

With absolutely no cadaver scent on the property (or in any of the surrounding searches). I would say that abduction is the most likely scenario.

imo

“no cadaver scent of W on the property or surrounding areas” doesn’t point solely to an abduction scenario at all. Cadaver dogs smell death so yes it’s likely W was still alive when he disappeared from the property but his disappearance doesn’t rule out the ff possible involvement. Just like the abduction scenario there is also the scenario “a much more likely one to me” that W was taken from his fgm by the fp that morning and moved on to someone or somewhere else

 

[Chrissy74]

“no cadaver scent of W on the property or surrounding areas” doesn’t point solely to an abduction scenario at all. Cadaver dogs smell death so yes it’s likely W was still alive when he disappeared from the property but his disappearance doesn’t rule out the ff possible involvement. Just like the abduction scenario there is also the scenario “a much more likely one to me” that W was taken from his fgm by the fp that morning and moved on to someone or somewhere else

Only a “snippet” of the ffc walkthrough with police was released to the public. The details or lack there of only SUGGEST a drive took place sometime that morning by Ffc to look for W. But what time was that drive? Why are those significant details withheld? Why wasn’t this drive mentioned and discussed by the Ffc in her interview with police, 60min, LH podcasts? If this drive was what she says it was, simply a drive to look for her missing child why withhold that information?

 

[Warshawski]

The court of public opinion had Lindy Chamberlain convicted for the disappearance of her baby daughter (famous Aussie case). Despite no evidence.
Then a trial sent Lindy to prison for the disappearance. Despite a couple of Coroners, at inquests about the case, finding otherwise.
After 3 years in prison, baby's jacket was found and that proved that Lindy was not responsible. Lindy was released.

Now here we are again, 42 years later, doing similar. imo

I don't know why we always seem to blame the mother. When something happens to a child. Perhaps, as has been posted here before, it is our fears that our own child could be taken if we were a "horrible, negligent" mother like that one. And, of course, we are not.

AFAIK there are multiple situations in which William could have disappeared. Multiple possibilities. Hopefully our current legal practises will require much, much more than divided police opinions.

imo

Death of Azaria Chamberlain

What a dreadful situation that was SA & it must’ve been so traumatic for Lindy & the family.
IMO, there were many people back then who were not just automatically blaming Lindy, particularly those familiar with the habits of dingos. People were desperately searching for little Azaria.

and I don’t think we are just jumping to blaming the FFFC, who police have now suggested is their prime focus. (We’ve all read the multitude of reports on that so surely no need for a Link)

Every imaginable situation/ possibility / person has been sleuthed here on WS over 7 + years, before we‘ve come recently to zeroing in more closely on the activities of the Fosters. And I think the same thing has been done by Strike Force Roseanne‘s various investigating team members & Leaders.

I think it’s only logical that we look closely at ‘mothers’ in these type of situations, if they are with the child at or around the time of the harm / disappearance

Personally, I would like nothing better than to have it proved that William Foster Carers had nothing to do with his disappearance, as the alternative is just so bad on so many levels.

 

[Warshawski]

With absolutely no cadaver scent on the property (or in any of the surrounding searches). I would say that abduction is the most likely scenario.

imo

Hi SA, I thought it was said that the sniffer dogs got no scent of William past the end of the property. I’ve wondered where on the property / in the yard they did find his scent.
i guess they would’ve looked for footprints etc. . William’s & others .

 

[Mauig’ma]

Said a little prayer for lil William this morning. Praying hard for the truth that leads to an arrest and a conviction. Justice is coming William. I can feel it. Just hold on a little while longer and let le finish their job. I’m keeping faith for you sweetheart and I’ll never stop praying for you. God bless you. No matter where you are you’ll be found someday. RIP up high in the sky lil guy. You deserved a much better life. Although I feel you’re in a better place now. God Speed for William today and every day. We miss your rambunctious smile

 

[Mauig’ma]

For all the people who attended the inquest I thank you for the insight from being there. I’d still like to know what everyone who attended thinks with all these new charges and developments in the case. I’m open to hear whatever you guys think. If anything it makes for good arguments and/or agreements while we wait for the foster carers court dates that will shed more information from le and from their latest search. Tyia moo

 

[nightrider17]

I am also curious about the hand injury - how significant - insignificant was it. Was it bleeding and needing a bandaid?, bruised? swollen, gravel rash, scratches? a bite?, was it obvious to others?? Right hand or left hand.

Is it just bad luck that the last person who saw William has injury? MOO

 

[Chrissy74]

I am also curious about the hand injury - how significant - insignificant was it. Was it bleeding and needing a bandaid?, bruised? swollen, gravel rash, scratches? a bite?, was it obvious to others?? Right hand or left hand.

Is it just bad luck that the last person who saw William has injury? MOO

In the Ffc walkthrough there is something in or on her right hand. Bandage or possibly a tissue. Tissue to hide the wound?

 

[Curiouser+Curiouser]

I am also curious about the hand injury - how significant - insignificant was it. Was it bleeding and needing a bandaid?, bruised? swollen, gravel rash, scratches? a bite?, was it obvious to others?? Right hand or left hand.

Is it just bad luck that the last person who saw William has injury? MOO

We were talking about the various ways she said she got the injury a few pages ago. I knew I’d seen another BBM. Here’s two from two books on the subject:

From CO book:
She was with her children, at her mum’s place on a tranquil street in a bush village. She felt at peace. She went on with William, exploring the garden until she fell suddenly, and hurt her hand.
‘It was really slippery, with all the branches that had fallen down,’ she said.
They went inside to tend to the wound but then Lindsay asked them what they had been doing and when her foster mum told her, she said: ‘I want to play Mummy Monsters, too,’ and out they all went again, to play it one more time.

<modsnip - quote from non-approved source>

 

[Warshawski]

We were talking about the various ways she said she got the injury a few pages ago. I knew I’d seen another BBM. Here’s two from two books on the subject:

From CO book:
She was with her children, at her mum’s place on a tranquil street in a bush village. She felt at peace. She went on with William, exploring the garden until she fell suddenly, and hurt her hand.
‘It was really slippery, with all the branches that had fallen down,’ she said.
They went inside to tend to the wound but then Lindsay asked them what they had been doing and when her foster mum told her, she said: ‘I want to play Mummy Monsters, too,’ and out they all went again, to play it one more time.

<modsnip - quote from a non-approved source

which (IMO) her Mother had no recollection of. … such small red patch …. surely not necessitating a bandage, or even as it’s been suggested, a tissue in hand, for protection a few days later.

I can certainly only begin to imagine the stress & trauma that one would be under in such circumstances, and to have to go over it all again (in front of a police interview camera) - omg, I’d need a truck load of Tissues ..

 

[Mauig’ma]

Was the ffc injured hand ever looked at or tested by anyone that day or the days after? I’m going to guess not. Because if they had, maybe this mystery could have very well have been solved sooner by questioning more about how and where it happened exactly. Then there’s dna testing, say a bite mark from William for example. A lot of what happened could have come out by simply questioning ffc injury imo moo

 

[Chrissy74]

Where's William Tyrrell | Ep. 6 | Weeks, Months, YearsYouTube · 10 News First14 Mar 2022

Mfc says
“You gotta get up and go at it again, it’s the only way you win”.

Interesting choice of words.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TGXAXv_4nzo

 

[Mauig’ma]

Where's William Tyrrell | Ep. 6 | Weeks, Months, YearsYouTube · 10 News First14 Mar 2022

Mfc says
“You gotta get up and go at it again, it’s the only way you win”.

Interesting choice of words.

I noticed ffc said she was nervous when they heard about having the inquests. Why would she be nervous. I think I would be overjoyed. Moo

 

[SLouTh]

From a Mother of young children who lives in Benaroon Dr:

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph
“I didn’t hear anything, so if the person who took him came down Benaroon Dr, they did it without panicking or driving fast or taking off like an idiot, because I would’ve heard,” Ms Heslop said.

“That’s pretty good luck. Especially at 10.30am on a Friday when there should only be one kid on the street, which is mine.”

I have often wondered about this concept, that was raised in the research paper…., with regards to Benaroon Drive that morning …. What did people see.??


Unknowing Witnesses

Unknowing witnesses are witnesses that saw some aspect of the crime, but at the time did not realize that they were witnessing part of the crime or potential abduction. It was discovered that in 40 percent of the cases there were "unknowing" witnesses.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2HrOXSWPXAxF67OMqbnLSKZG8icGuoDmweuGHJ5VhMlvtv4g_CDcyKAIQ

 

[SLouTh]

I also thought this aspect of the research was particularly interesting ….and warrants going back to the beginning of the case to re look at it again and again …

The potential for contact with anyone who may physically be around some aspect of the murder, crime scene, or body disposal site is critical to investigations. The evidence shows that the police had "contact" with the killer about some aspect of the case--before he became the prime suspect--in more than one-third (34%) of the cases. The police often do not realize or know that they have come this close to the killer, and probably early in the investigation, when many names are being recorded, interviews are being done, canvassing is taking place, records are being searched, tips are being received, and so on. Police need to know and recognize this in conducting the investigation of a child abduction murder--the killer's name may be in the possession of investigators in a substantial proportion of cases, and early in the investigation.

Surprisingly, the data show that the killer's name became known--in any way, not necessarily even as the "suspect"--very early in the course of most of the investigations of child abduction murder. In almost one-third (30%)* of the cases, the killer's name came up immediately. In a majority (51%) of the cases it appeared within 24 hours. In three-fourths (74%) of the cases it emerged within a week.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2HrOXSWPXAxF67OMqbnLSKZG8icGuoDmweuGHJ5VhMlvtv4g_CDcyKAIQ

 

[SLouTh]

We were talking about the various ways she said she got the injury a few pages ago. I knew I’d seen another BBM. Here’s two from two books on the subject:

From CO book:
She was with her children, at her mum’s place on a tranquil street in a bush village. She felt at peace. She went on with William, exploring the garden until she fell suddenly, and hurt her hand.
‘It was really slippery, with all the branches that had fallen down,’ she said.
They went inside to tend to the wound but then Lindsay asked them what they had been doing and when her foster mum told her, she said: ‘I want to play Mummy Monsters, too,’ and out they all went again, to play it one more time.

<modsnip - quote from non-approved source>

A lot has been spoken about regarding the hand injury…. And we can all cite a case where a perp has had an injury, but does anyone know where to find the actual statistics on such an occurrence???
I have tried to find this statistic, but so far no luck …
TIA

 

[Curiouser+Curiouser]

A lot has been spoken about regarding the hand injury…. And we can all cite a case where a perp has had an injury, but does anyone know where to find the actual statistics on such an occurrence???
I have tried to find this statistic, but so far no luck …
TIA

I have not I'm afraid. I remember Gerard Bayden Clay with the scratch marks on his face though. Nasty.
<modsnip>This Nov 2021 article has 18 seconds of the FFC talking to the reporter. The image we've been discussing is taken from this video. She definitely has a tissue in her right hand. I can't see any injury at all, it's all so blurry, but maybe I'm missing something.
abc.net.au article

 

[Warshawski]

I also thought this aspect of the research was particularly interesting ….and warrants going back to the beginning of the case to re look at it again and again …

The potential for contact with anyone who may physically be around some aspect of the murder, crime scene, or body disposal site is critical to investigations. The evidence shows that the police had "contact" with the killer about some aspect of the case--before he became the prime suspect--in more than one-third (34%) of the cases. The police often do not realize or know that they have come this close to the killer, and probably early in the investigation, when many names are being recorded, interviews are being done, canvassing is taking place, records are being searched, tips are being received, and so on. Police need to know and recognize this in conducting the investigation of a child abduction murder--the killer's name may be in the possession of investigators in a substantial proportion of cases, and early in the investigation.

Surprisingly, the data show that the killer's name became known--in any way, not necessarily even as the "suspect"--very early in the course of most of the investigations of child abduction murder. In almost one-third (30%)* of the cases, the killer's name came up immediately. In a majority (51%) of the cases it appeared within 24 hours. In three-fourths (74%) of the cases it emerged within a week.

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/201253NCJRS.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2HrOXSWPXAxF67OMqbnLSKZG8icGuoDmweuGHJ5VhMlvtv4g_CDcyKAIQ

As was the case with the Daniel Morcombe investigation.