Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #79

  • #221
He said the theory was she found him dead after he accidentally fell from a balcony.

"Police assert that she must've quickly resolved that if the accidental death were to be discovered she might lose [custody of another child in their care]," he said.

"Police assert that in that frame of mind she placed William in her mother's car and after alerting [a neighbour] to William's disappearance, drove the mother's car down to Batar Creek Road and placed William's body somewhere in undergrowth and then returned [home] to 48 Benaroon Drive and called the police via triple-0."

Mr Craddock said the coroner is obliged to consider findings in relation to reliable evidence.

So the police theory is that she spoke to AMS, (10:40 ) went back to the house, got her mothers keys ( not sure where they thought William was at this time ) drove down to the Cob & co, drove back & had called 000 by 10:56??

Remembering that the MFC arrived approx 10:33-10:35

That's a very tight time frame.

Also happening just before these times is Heather Savage leaving @ 10:37 or 10:38 & LH arriving home @ 10:30-10:35

And @ 10:50 AMS knocks on PS's door, also alerts the Crabb's

Also have FFC knocking on #35 according to AMS.



Is anyone able to find the timeline I did years ago please?
Agreed, the police theory provides such a tight timeframe. .. particularly as she apparently went down to check the bus stop after speaking with AMS at 10.40 am ( over an hour after the timestamp of the iconic photo )

I can’t fathom why they propose that she did the drive After alerting AMS, and not before.
Is it to match the time that the Truck Driver said he saw her ?

Why did no one see her go off in the car ?

She was speaking with AMS & then walked to bus stop - must’ve then gone up to carport and got the car, presume William was already inside.
AMS was knocking on PS door
FF was running around searching

Or was this trip just a decoy - did she tell AMS that she would go for a quick drive ( maybe that was held back from public knowledge) But in fact she had done and earlier drive Before alerting AMS that he was missing.
 
  • #222
If she had moved him their would be forensic evidence in what ever she moved him in you would think?

Unlikely IMO
Not always imo
 
  • #223
I know. I just dont see how she could have found somewhere that good to hide him that he was never found. In such a short rushed time.

She says he was taken, how does she know he was taken? What evidence does she have?

If it were my child i wouldnt rule anything out without evidence. I wouldnt want any stone left unturned

All imo
Now I start thinking again about Ron Chapman who, as I recall, said he heard a vehicle at 10.45 am (by his clock). He went out thinking it was the postie with some plants he’d ordered - only to be confronted by a car being driven like an idiot by a blonde woman. There was a little boy in a Spider-Man suit unrestrained in back seat with his face looking out the window. …. Following behind at speed was another vehicle .

Crabbe’s heard a vehicle that sounded like postie
Chapman heard a vehicle that sounded like postie
 
  • #224
Any evidence police have gathered against William Tyrrell's foster mother is set to finally be presented to a coroner with the resumption of the inquest into the toddler's disappearance.

Frankly, I think whoever has to get up on behalf of NSW Police and present 'any evidence' -- as opposed to theories -- will be mightily embarrassed.

Were there any substantial evidence, my submission is that the ODPP would have already acted on it.
 
  • #225
Hope it was a nice trip :p
But the coming down. I thought the end of the dream was, one of the papers I keep bagging wants to give me a job. No accuracy needed. The humiliation. Hours later: that's not humiliation, it's another delusion of grandeur. Falling, falling.
 
  • #226
  • #227

Today Senior Constable Jost Preis will speak of the methodology used in the 2021 search - eg: how they used GPS to make sure they covered every inch.
Forensic anthropologist Dr Jennifer Menzies will speak of how bones break down and how they are preserved.
If they have time ... additional evidence ... police efforts to identify everyone in the area when William disappeared, use of search dogs, use of cadaver dogs.

(paraphrased from your link)
 
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  • #228
Today Senior Constable Jost Preis will speak of the methodology used in the 2021 search - eg: how they used GPS to make sure they covered every inch.
Forensic anthropologist Dr Jennifer Menzies will speak of how bones break down and how they are preserved.
If they have time ... additional evidence ... police efforts to identify everyone in the area when William disappeared, use of search dogs, use of cadaver dogs.

(from your link)
So pretty much more generalised information from experts? I’m more interested in what they did to identify everyone in the area
 
  • #229

In an earlier, separate court proceeding it was revealed that Sergeant Scott Jamieson told the foster mother during a police interview more than two years ago: “We know why, we know how, we know where he is.

“We aren’t guessing, we aren’t bluffing.

“We are saying we know what happened and why it happened and where [his body] is.”


So they were bluffing & under oath IMO

Dan Box is stating in this morning's podcast how police things were said under oath.
In one hearing (I think the NSWCC imo) one detective was asked "Do you know what happened to William" "Yes" "Have you found him?" "No".
Then again in that hearing, same thing ... "Do you know what happened to William" "Yes" "Have you found him?" "No".
Then (same detective at another court hearing - presumably the intimidation one imo) said "Well that was one of our theories".

At around the 18:00 to 19:00 min mark in this morning's podcast ...

 
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  • #230
Thanks SA, I'll just add it all here again, original Post was Feb 28th 2020

Here is my attempt at a Timeline

Taken from evidence I heard, & some from CO's book <modsnip>

Friday 12 the September 2014

06:30
ish : PS goes for his walk

06:00 - 07:00 : kids wake up

07:00 - 07:30 : FFC opens curtains & sees 2 cars between # 31 ( AMS ) & #35 ( Peter's ) houses

07:30 : breakfast & dress etc

08:10 : AMS waves her kids of to school who are at the bus stop on crn Benaroon & Batar Ck Rd. She is standing at her carport.

08:40 : AMS reverses out to take her child to pre-school. Arrives at 9am. Saw no cars parked on the street.

08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )

08:55 - 09:00 : MFC leaves Benaroon drive ( evidence from inquest evidence )

08:50 : PS back from his walk, he stopped for approx 30mins to talk to lady named "Lyn" -the lady from the caravan

09:02 : PS calls Casino hospital where his brother is ( call lasts 22 seconds )


09:03 : FFC calls Bill Spedding from FGM's landline, leaves a message. Call lasted 38 seconds

09:05 – 10:00 ish : ( most of this is from the CO book )FFC gave no direct times in her evidence also

*FFC took WT for walk around garden (Lindsay was inside with FGM),

*were playing “Mummy Monsters” FFC spotted good climbing tree, tried to get WT to climb tree, he was not interested “No mummy, too high”

* FFC noticed 2 cars she saw earlier. FFC sipped & grazed hand.

* FFC said at the inquest they were playing for “ around 5 minutes”

* Went inside to tend to hand, Lindsay asked what they had been doing, she than wanted to play “Mummy monsters” so they all went out again to play.

* Both kids collected leaves & twigs for cards they intended to make for “ Opa’s” grave

* Worked on cards for a while ( I think this might have been when the photos were taken @ 09:37) & than FGM said “ Okay , let’s see your new bikes”

* Both kids raced to carport ( MFC had taken bikes out of car the evening before )

* Kids rode up & down the driveway , only going as far as the road & not over the kerb.

* After a few laps WT suggested they have a race . so they did & took off to the end of the driveway. Lindsay stopped in the middle of the driveway & said “whose that car Mummy?” , FFC looked & saw dark green -grey sedan pull into the Millers driveway & reverse out & leave, she said “ I don’t know , probably the neighbours”

* Kids were than back riding theie bikes , Lindsay lost her balance coming down the driveway & fell into the garden, she was not hurt, WT than decided he would crash his bike into the garden also.

* FGM than said “I think it’s time to put these bikes away”

09:10 : GO calls FGM house ( from CO book )


09:30 - 09:35 : Crabbs arrive home @ 51 Benaroon Drive, did not see any cars on street. Went to toilet, made cup of teaa & sat on back deck.

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )

10:00 -10:30ish :

FGM put kettle on ( after being outside with the kids riding the bikes ) ( from CO book )

Kids had now moved to the back deck , after teas made both FFC & FGM sat outside on deck.

Lindsay emptied the pencil container, & a dice rolled out, played dice game where Lindsay would jump the amount of times that the dice landed on.

WT came over & played as well, he soon got bored & than decided to play another game “ Daddy Tiger” , he pretended to be Daddy Tiger , he crawled around on the ground for a bit , playing at being a Tiger, He was running around roaring , in his Velcro sandals & spiderman suit .

He asked Lindsay if she wanted to play too, but she was concentrating on making her card, so William carried on without her , jumping of the deck , roaring & coming back again. He jumped of the deck , ran around the side of the house roared…………….than silence

10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.


10:05 - 10:15 : Detective Laura Beacroft thinks this time could be when WT went missing

10:10 - 10:15 : Laidlaw thinks this could be the time WT went missing

10:19 : MFC has script filled at chemist

10:20 : PS & MS left café to walk across to school

10:00 - 11:00 : Geoff Owen at Kendall Community centre paying for his advertising

10: 30 : MFC sent text, be back 5 minutes using Siri function on his phone.

10:30 : FFC noticed all quite, can see WT, can't hear WT, starts looking for him

10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go

10:35 - 10:45 : Lydene Heslop arrives home from grocery shopping. Saw man on mower, saw no cars

10:37 - 10:38 : Heather Savage leaves for bingo

10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house.

10:41 : PS calls x-ray place ( short call )


10:45 : Ron Chapman looks at his clock on the wall, it's 10:45, he than sees the 2 cars

10:50 : AMS knocks on PS door, PS leaves to start searching.

10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.

11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job

11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up their driveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen a little boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard. Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car & drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a child who had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.

Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting bins out etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for the Miller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Miller parked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.

11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive

11:30 ish : Inspector Aldridge arrives

11:30 - 11:45 : PS back from search

12:19 : Parts delivered to BS house for FGM washing machine ( other parts delivered Thus 11/11/14 )

12:30 : Snr Cnt Tim Williams arrives ( Land & Search Co-Ordinator )

"lunchtime" : Paul Berg arrives ( SES )

12:45 : Snr Cnt Wendy Hudson arrives ( was on an ADO ) with her 2 sons

13:00 : Greg & Regina Newton arrive @ PS's ( as per his testimony )

13:15 - 13:30 : GN & RG arrive at PS's ( heard in evidence by Craddock in PS's testimony )

14:26 : PS called FGM house from his mobile

16:36 : PS call to Casino hospital


Feel free to add or correct . It's not complete.......
Extracted and Underlined/BBM:
10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.

I think that whether, or not, the FM had her Mobile phone with her when she drove in the FGM Mazda would have been known by Rosann;
.... At the time of her saying that she didn't, it might not have been important ... as it has now become ... to be able to prove that it was her in the vehicle witnessed by the truck driver.
 
  • #231
Today Senior Constable Jost Preis will speak of the methodology used in the 2021 search - eg: how they used GPS to make sure they covered every inch.
Forensic anthropologist Dr Jennifer Menzies will speak of how bones break down and how they are preserved.
If they have time ... additional evidence ... police efforts to identify everyone in the area when William disappeared, use of search dogs, use of cadaver dogs.

(paraphrased from your link)
I came across Jost Preis name on a previous inquest witness list provided by Dr Sleuth. Can't find the post now but I think it was a list from 2019. He must've also been involved in the 2018 forensic search.
 
  • #232
Dan Box is stating in this morning's podcast how police things were said under oath.
In one hearing (I think the NSWCC imo) one detective was asked "Do you know what happened to William" "Yes" "Have you found him?" "No".
Then again in that hearing, same thing ... "Do you know what happened to William" "Yes" "Have you found him?" "No".
Then (same detective at another court hearing - presumably the intimidation one imo) said "Well that was one of our theories".

At around the 18:00 to 19:00 min mark in this morning's podcast ...

So could they be charged with lying to NSWCC?
 
  • #233
  • #234
  • #235
Before the proceedings began on Tuesday morning, counsel assisting the court Gerard Craddock SC told the court that as the foster mother was leaving court on Monday, “somebody started hurling abuse at her”.

The court was also told that it’s believed that the person also used the female foster carer’s name.

The woman cannot be named or publicly identified due to a non-publication order and any breach could represent contempt of court.

“Obviously, there’s no place for that in suitable society at all,” Mr Craddock said.

“It’s particularly regrettable in the circumstances of this case.”

He asked Ms Grahame to remind those seated in the public gallery that everyone before the court was afforded fairness.

“I’m very, very disappointed, Mr Craddock, to hear that,” Ms Grahame said.

“This sort of behaviour must not occur … I’m just disturbed by this sort of behaviour.”

 
  • #236
ive often wondered if the police theory of william falling from the balcony was because they suspected fm responsible for his death but suggested it to her as an accidental fall rather than an angry push, so she was more comfortable confessing
 
  • #237
Before the proceedings began on Tuesday morning, counsel assisting the court Gerard Craddock SC told the court that as the foster mother was leaving court on Monday, “somebody started hurling abuse at her”.

The court was also told that it’s believed that the person also used the female foster carer’s name.

The woman cannot be named or publicly identified due to a non-publication order and any breach could represent contempt of court.

“Obviously, there’s no place for that in suitable society at all,” Mr Craddock said.

“It’s particularly regrettable in the circumstances of this case.”

He asked Ms Grahame to remind those seated in the public gallery that everyone before the court was afforded fairness.

“I’m very, very disappointed, Mr Craddock, to hear that,” Ms Grahame said.

“This sort of behaviour must not occur … I’m just disturbed by this sort of behaviour.”

I just don't know how anyone would ever think that behavour is helpful in any way
 
  • #238
Before the proceedings began on Tuesday morning, counsel assisting the court Gerard Craddock SC told the court that as the foster mother was leaving court on Monday, “somebody started hurling abuse at her”.

The court was also told that it’s believed that the person also used the female foster carer’s name.

The woman cannot be named or publicly identified due to a non-publication order and any breach could represent contempt of court.

“Obviously, there’s no place for that in suitable society at all,” Mr Craddock said.

“It’s particularly regrettable in the circumstances of this case.”

He asked Ms Grahame to remind those seated in the public gallery that everyone before the court was afforded fairness.

“I’m very, very disappointed, Mr Craddock, to hear that,” Ms Grahame said.

“This sort of behaviour must not occur … I’m just disturbed by this sort of behaviour.”

In no way am l shocked by that. Im pretty sure l could guess exactly who it was too. There’s a handful of people that turn up to simply harass the FM. Disgusting behaviour
 
  • #239

From your link ... sounds as if Robyn Ross will be the/a participant for SFR. Probably the former SFR, as it says 'was part of'. Unclear in what capacity.


The court is also scheduled to hear from dog handlers Senior Constable Matthew Gates and Senior Constable Adam Aitken, as well as Sergeant Robyn Ross who was part of Strike Force Rosann.

Also .... Professor Olley said if William had been dumped in a creek around the search area, his body would have been caught up in one of the dams.
 
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  • #240
In no way am l shocked by that. Im pretty sure l could guess exactly who it was too. There’s a handful of people that turn up to simply harass the FM. Disgusting behaviour

Apparently, according to this article, Coroner Grahame issued a warning in her court ... saying that she issues a stern warning to please behave in an appropriate manner. Maybe she is going to take action if something like that happens again.

 

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