Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #79

[drsleuth]

The call from GO to FGM occurred on the morning W went missing. FM had called BS at 9:03 a.m. and left a message. Shortly after, around 9:10 a.m., GO called the FGM home phone and spoke with one of FGM’s daughters. The only daughter present at that time was FM. However, FM does not recall speaking with GO, as she had already informed police in her statements that she was outside with the children at that time. Just minutes after receiving FM’s message, BS attempted to return the call but was unable to get through, as the phone line was engaged.
During her walkthrough, FGM was asked if she had received any phone calls that morning around the time she went outside to join her daughter and grandchildren on the back veranda. She responded emphatically, ‘No, no, no, no, no, no, no.’ Additionally, from FGM’s account during the walkthrough, we know that her other daughter was not at the house the day before W went missing, as FGM provided police with a detailed account of her movements on that Thursday.
Was GO the old man DB mentions in his podcast, who informs police of seeing the fm throw something out of her car or something to that affect?

BBM : That's not correct.

GO said he called on the 11/9/2014 spoke to a female who said was the daughter - told police different daughter not WT FFC. Inquired to do work on 16/9/2014. Said yes that would be fine ( from my notes 23/8/2019)

This was sometime before 5pm as he had an appointment at Port Mac Hospital 5 pm on 11/9/2014

 

[marv hucker]

agree but that wasn't the point of my question. The judge seems to have come to the conclusion that the pressure the FFC was under at the time was unique and extraordinary. I'd like to know what she cited. If the pressure had been that great throughout the whole 6 years, should authorities have placed the child elsewhere. What started out as approx. 8 offences between the couple was boiled down to three of which at present there is no recorded conviction and a good behaviour bond in place. The magistrate who heard the charges gave a longer summary seeming to weigh all the circumstances presented and reported that she was close to making an example of the woman. This all occurred in a year with the house and cars under surveillance. I think it would be a stretch to think that it only began there. The little girl reported to her "safe person" during a break in the police interview that she was scared and that he has anger issues. Those anger issues seemed to be in play since before WT went missing. Can't remember if he was asked at the inquest, what he takes medication for, I know that it came up in police interviews. MOO

I understand what you’re saying
My view is these charges (and the Real Estate stuff) were largely brought to put pressure on FFM - nothing to do with the safety of children.

 

[drsleuth]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/knows-too-much-inmate-of-william-tyrrell-person-of-interest-reveals-bombshell-claims/news-story/4bda571a3ad08aa194bbf2d2a6d3607f

EXCLUSIVE

‘Knows too much’: Inmate of William Tyrrell person of interest reveals bombshell claims​

The cellmate of a person of interest in the William Tyrrell case claims he was given a detailed account of the three-year-old’s death but says police have no interest in learning more.

June 4, 2025 - 6:03AM

Simon Sutherland shared an accommodation block with the person of interest, Frank Abbott, in Sydney’s Long Bay prison between late March and early April this year.

“He just starts talking about it, like it’s nothing,” Sutherland said. “Like, ‘Hey, you know about that William Tyrrell? … I’ll tell you the truth’.”


<modsnip - posting more than 10% is a copyright violation - see link>

 

[drsleuth]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/knows-too-much-inmate-of-william-tyrrell-person-of-interest-reveals-bombshell-claims/news-story/4bda571a3ad08aa194bbf2d2a6d3607f

The details of Abbott’s alleged account are disturbing and unproven, although several parts seem to refer to people, places or things heard in evidence before an inquest investigating William’s disappearance.



I wonder if this refers to a witness from the inquest who said he saw a white Camry Station Wagon parked @ Henry Kendall Reserve @ 11:50 am on the 12/9/2014 who he said was TJ??

 

[SouthAussie]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/knows-too-much-inmate-of-william-tyrrell-person-of-interest-reveals-bombshell-claims/news-story/4bda571a3ad08aa194bbf2d2a6d3607f

EXCLUSIVE

‘Knows too much’: Inmate of William Tyrrell person of interest reveals bombshell claims​

The cellmate of a person of interest in the William Tyrrell case claims he was given a detailed account of the three-year-old’s death but says police have no interest in learning more.

June 4, 2025 - 6:03AM

Simon Sutherland shared an accommodation block with the person of interest, Frank Abbott, in Sydney’s Long Bay prison between late March and early April this year.

“He just starts talking about it, like it’s nothing,” Sutherland said. “Like, ‘Hey, you know about that William Tyrrell? … I’ll tell you the truth’.”

<modsnip - posting more than 10% is a copyright violation - see link>

So someone else (besides FM) did see a vehicle on the street.

" ...... and a separate witness has told us she saw a station wagon with fogged up windows on the road that day."


And FA's self-reported "clearing" as a POI doesn't seem too firm. What vehicle was FA using to go 'check the mail' in another town?

Abbott also claimed to have been in a different town on the day itself “to go to this guy’s house to check his mail”, said Sutherland.

This contrasts an account given by Abbott on recorded prison phone calls, tendered to the inquest, where he claimed a bank transaction proved he was somewhere else at the time.

(from your link)

 

[Chrissy74]

BBM : That's not correct.

GO said he called on the 11/9/2014 spoke to a female who said was the daughter - told police different daughter not WT FFC. Inquired to do work on 16/9/2014. Said yes that would be fine ( from my notes 23/8/2019)

This was sometime before 5pm as he had an appointment at Port Mac Hospital 5 pm on 11/9/2014

I disagree DrSleuth. There was some confusion about this in earlier threads but it can now be confirmed that the other daughter wasn’t at fgm house on the 11th and we know this from fgm walkthrough. We also know from her walkthrough that a call was made to her home that morning.

 

[drsleuth]

I disagree DrSleuth. There was some confusion about this in earlier threads but it can now be confirmed that the other daughter wasn’t at fgm house on the 11th and we know this from fgm walkthrough. We also know from her walkthrough that a call was made to her home that morning.

This is what GO said at the inquest. I was there. I have it documented in my notes.

Weather this is true or not is another thing re the "other" daughter.

There was another call by GO on the morning of the 12/9/2014, that was not answered.

What you stated was:

"The call from GO to FGM occurred on the morning W went missing. FM had called BS at 9:03 a.m. and left a message. Shortly after, around 9:10 a.m., GO called the FGM home phone and spoke with one of FGM’s daughters. The only daughter present at that time was FM"

BBM : You said that the call that mentioned another daughter ( not the FFC ) was on the morning of 12/9/2014 which is NOT correct.

 

[drsleuth]

So someone else (besides FM) did see a vehicle on the street.

" ...... and a separate witness has told us she saw a station wagon with fogged up windows on the road that day."


And FA's self-reported "clearing" as a POI doesn't seem too firm. What vehicle was FA using to go 'check the mail' in another town?

Abbott also claimed to have been in a different town on the day itself “to go to this guy’s house to check his mail”, said Sutherland.

This contrasts an account given by Abbott on recorded prison phone calls, tendered to the inquest, where he claimed a bank transaction proved he was somewhere else at the time.

(from your link)

Yes SA

Seems FA has given various accounts of where he was on the 12/9/2014 including:

• Crushing cardboard boxes @ the Top Takeaway shop in Wauchope ( came out in cross examination by FA of JA & also the protected witness ) - my notes from the inquest

• Withdrawing pension money from his bank ? where ( protected witness , but this would have been Thur 11/9/2014 ?)

• Was with daughter & they went to the Uniting church ( MP testimony ) Pastor helped paedophile get bail, William Tyrrell inquest told

• Abbott also claimed to have been in a different town on the day itself “to go to this guy’s house to check his mail”, said Sutherland. ( from today linked article above ) https://www.news.com.au/national/cr...s/news-story/4bda571a3ad08aa194bbf2d2a6d3607f

 

[SouthAussie]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed (personalizing)>

This is what @drsleuth reported back on 28th Sept, 2021, from inquest notes. Not a 'new version'. We have all known about the Thursday call from GO to one of FGM's 'daughters' for a long time. I have even speculated that it could have been a daughter-in-law. A son's wife.



"Yep it was a Mazda 626.

Just looking back on GO's evidence.........

Some statements made by Mr Craddock:

• Heron's Creek / Logans Crossing 4 minutes from Kendall
• GO kept a diary when making appointments
• Had contact with FGM in 6/14 re plumbing ( fixing tap washers etc )
• Contact with FGM again Mon 8/9 to repair some decking ( assessed job on same day )
• FFG only peron at house that day , went home did quote, phone later that day with quote
• on Thur 11/9/14 spoke to a female who said was the daughter ( told police a different daughter to FFC ) This has never made sense to me
• Inquired to do work on the Tues 16/9/14
• On friday 11/9/14 5pm attended appoint @ Port Macquarie hospital ( GO said he couldn't remember & asked was it in his diary )
• From his statement attended cancer support meeting ( above appointment )
• Woke on Friday 12/9/14, went to Kendall community centre to pay for advertising in the Kendall chronicle ( 10-11 am )
• Went into hospital @ Port Mac 18/9 for surgery, was in hospital 6 days ( was on waiting list for surgery & had no set date )
• Familiar with FA. lived in same area in a caravan up the Rd ( Heron's Creek Rd )
• Was aware FA was a " jack of all trades" & GO did same sort of jobs
• GO said he didn't have anyone organise anyone to do any of his jobs while he was in hospital & didn't have any jobs booked.
• Questioned about FA doing work for him, had no confidence in his work
• GO said FA lived in a caravan 1/2 km down the Rd than was kicked out , than lived in caravan next door to GO ( 16 Misty Way )
• When the coroner asked " Do you do work together?"in realtion to FA, Go replied " Not really , nothing worth mentioning , put it that way )
• Had Mazda 626
• Eventually fixed FGM deck on 10/10/14
• Evidence seemed to end early @ 15:26 ( when we usually sat till 16:00 )

Thread 57, post 388

 

[drsleuth]

This is what @drsleuth reported back on 28th Sept, 2021, from inquest notes. Not a 'new version'. We have all known about the Thursday call from GO to one of FGM's 'daughters' for a long time. I have even speculated that it could have been a daughter-in-law. A son's wife.



"Yep it was a Mazda 626.

Just looking back on GO's evidence.........

Some statements made by Mr Craddock:

• Heron's Creek / Logans Crossing 4 minutes from Kendall
• GO kept a diary when making appointments
• Had contact with FGM in 6/14 re plumbing ( fixing tap washers etc )
• Contact with FGM again Mon 8/9 to repair some decking ( assessed job on same day )
• FFG only peron at house that day , went home did quote, phone later that day with quote
• on Thur 11/9/14 spoke to a female who said was the daughter ( told police a different daughter to FFC ) This has never made sense to me
• Inquired to do work on the Tues 16/9/14
• On friday 11/9/14 5pm attended appoint @ Port Macquarie hospital ( GO said he couldn't remember & asked was it in his diary )
• From his statement attended cancer support meeting ( above appointment )
• Woke on Friday 12/9/14, went to Kendall community centre to pay for advertising in the Kendall chronicle ( 10-11 am )
• Went into hospital @ Port Mac 18/9 for surgery, was in hospital 6 days ( was on waiting list for surgery & had no set date )
• Familiar with FA. lived in same area in a caravan up the Rd ( Heron's Creek Rd )
• Was aware FA was a " jack of all trades" & GO did same sort of jobs
• GO said he didn't have anyone organise anyone to do any of his jobs while he was in hospital & didn't have any jobs booked.
• Questioned about FA doing work for him, had no confidence in his work
• GO said FA lived in a caravan 1/2 km down the Rd than was kicked out , than lived in caravan next door to GO ( 16 Misty Way )
• When the coroner asked " Do you do work together?"in realtion to FA, Go replied " Not really , nothing worth mentioning , put it that way )
• Had Mazda 626
• Eventually fixed FGM deck on 10/10/14
• Evidence seemed to end early @ 15:26 ( when we usually sat till 16:00 )

Thread 57, post 388

Thanks SA

 

[Chrissy74]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
I definitely remember that post thanks DrSleuth and your reporting of it during the inquest.

• Who used the term "other daughter"? Was it just a description used by Lia, or did GO say those words in his evidence (which would mean he knew there was more than one daughter in FGM's family)? Did he specifically say in his evidence that the person he was talking to "wasn't FFC"? This is what I have in my notes "spoke to female who said she was the daughter, told police was a different daughter, wasn't WT's FFC". This is what Mr Craddock put to GO I think.

GO phoned fgm home on the day W went missing at 9:10am. That’s a very specific time. Fgm details her events from the day before and doesn’t mention anything about anyone being at her home the day before, which confirms the call was made on the 12th. Detectives also question fgm about receiving any calls prior to going out on the veranda, which confirms police were aware a phone call was made to the house. The only daughter at the house on the 12th was the fm.
DrSleuth fgm walkthrough wasn’t released until after the 2020 inquest. Her walkthrough provided a lot more details that were able to clear up some of the confusion and discrepancies.
My opinion, which I believe are the facts, going by all the information we now have is the same as I stated in my previous post.



Eerie comments William Tyrrell's foster mum made after he vanished

 

[butterstick]

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/new-claim-that-william-tyrrell-person-of-interest-took-that-little-boy-250km-away-from-where-he-went-missing/news-story/ab4d914abf205ae8c5bfde81e5002933

New claim that William Tyrrell person of interest ‘took that little boy’ 250km away from where he went missing​

....

So Ms Bulley comes forward, a decade later, to report an unknown or unnamed person once spoke to her, and he said he heard second hand from another person that he thought FA was responsible.

Ms Bulley said she called the police to tell them. She missed a return call. She rang again and left a voice message but never heard back. So she evidently gave up, exhausted.

At that time we all knew there were thousands of bits of information the police were trying to contend with and they had some hot leads, they probably had to make decisions on where to point their focus.

But yes, they should have followed up on that voice mail. They probably had thousands of similar voice mails, given at the time there was an ACA-led Pedo Panic going on (maybe rightly, I don't know).

Myself, if I thought this story had any gravity, I'd walk into a police station to give a statement. Especially because she knew FA was in jail for being a Child Rapist, and especially because she knew the information (supposedly) came from his brother. I'd follow up with the man who said it, if he was a regular customer, and get him to go to the police as well, if he had any conviction in his second hand story beyond bar talk.

But I guess sitting on a voicemail for a decade is somewhat better than telling a traffic warden out your car window as you drive past him.

As for the articles assertion "A second person has come forward about a William Tyrrell person of interest, and police again never followed it up" - yes sure. I'm just wondering if these events of "coming forward" aren't half-hearted, and we should consider that in these newspaper opinion pieces.

Still, it's got WT back into the news, if nothing else.

 

[FromGermany1]

How many lies and inconsistencies from the ff, during an investigation, are “not worth the mention”? Some? All?
In an investigation, nothing should be ruled out or dismissed prematurely—every detail matters. Especially the details in the last known digital evidence of W on the day he disappeared. As well as all other evidence obtained during the course of the investigation. The placement of the fgm slippers does not align with her walkthrough statement. Why were her slippers at the top of stairs as if she was in a hurry to go after W and her daughter? Why was fgm last memory of W Bouncing out of his skull? Why was it deathly silent when Fgm went looking for fm? Why was the back patio where it all happened? Why didnt fgm help look for W when she realised he was missing? She didn’t look inside the house while waiting for fm just in case he snuck back inside without anyone seeing him nor did she look anywhere outside the house while walking towards her neighbour who she saw standing on the road. She didn’t panic when she saw her daughter come back and say she was going to call police, she instead went back to the house because she thought she wasn’t needed and was concerned in parts about her washing machine and floorboards. Is that normal behaviour from a grandmother who’s 3yo grandson has gone missing on her property?
It makes complete sense for investigators to be focusing on the fm and fgm.
While the evidence may not meet the threshold for legal prosecution, it overwhelmingly points toward their involvement.

Enlarged by me
Still it seems, FGM/FM knew, there would happen something in the morning at that special time. Not for nothing the family visit was brought forward for one whole night, they all arriving in the evening of the Sept 11th instead of the morning of Sept 12th.
All were laying in wait: these 2 women AND the accomplice/s in his/their maybe station wagon on the street. Little W had been thoroughly prepared with his red-blue Spiderman suit as an identification mark.
What they were waiting for, had to happen, before FD would have returned from his "errands" (which he did either for his alibi or rather because of his uninvolvement).
Little sis on the deck, for God's sake, wasn't allowed to notice anything (and that worked just fine).

Important farewell photos were taken at the fastfood restaurant and on the deck at grandma. Afaik, no photo was taken in and around their new car, ie. during diaper change, which would also have been a memory for little W's book.

FA or/and TJ are the men, who I would connect .... ETA: A wash.mach. operator (well-known to FGM) could be considered as an "inconspicuous" mediator (via phone) between the 2 parties.

MOO and speculation and all that. My thoughts today.

 

[SouthAussie]

Myself, if I thought this story had any gravity, I'd walk into a police station to give a statement.

Apparently, some don't do that around there. Ronald Chapman didn't either.

This seems to be a long running issue. When FA allegedly murdered Helen Harrison, he first said he was with one of his brothers at the time. His brother was never interviewed, as per the podcast.

There have been too many people that say the same thing in that area. "I told the police this, they never interviewed me, they never called back".

imo

 

[drsleuth]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
I definitely remember that post thanks DrSleuth and your reporting of it during the inquest.

• Who used the term "other daughter"? Was it just a description used by Lia, or did GO say those words in his evidence (which would mean he knew there was more than one daughter in FGM's family)? Did he specifically say in his evidence that the person he was talking to "wasn't FFC"? This is what I have in my notes "spoke to female who said she was the daughter, told police was a different daughter, wasn't WT's FFC". This is what Mr Craddock put to GO I think.

GO phoned fgm home on the day W went missing at 9:10am. That’s a very specific time. Fgm details her events from the day before and doesn’t mention anything about anyone being at her home the day before, which confirms the call was made on the 12th. Detectives also question fgm about receiving any calls prior to going out on the veranda, which confirms police were aware a phone call was made to the house. The only daughter at the house on the 12th was the fm.
DrSleuth fgm walkthrough wasn’t released until after the 2020 inquest. Her walkthrough provided a lot more details that were able to clear up some of the confusion and discrepancies.
My opinion, which I believe are the facts, going by all the information we now have is the same as I stated in my previous post.



Eerie comments William Tyrrell's foster mum made after he vanished

No it wasn't Lia.

BBM : No it doesn't IMO

Mr Craddock was reading quite abit from GO's statement eg "from your statement "etc ( Go couldn't remember alot )

Could GO have given a false statement, yes he could have I suppose.

But going by evidence tendered at the inquest a call was made to the FGM's house on the 11/9/2014

As to the FGM's walkhru, I believe only part of it has been released publicly

 

[marv hucker]

So Ms Bulley comes forward, a decade later, to report an unknown or unnamed person once spoke to her, and he said he heard second hand from another person that he thought FA was responsible.

Ms Bulley said she called the police to tell them. She missed a return call. She rang again and left a voice message but never heard back. So she evidently gave up, exhausted.

At that time we all knew there were thousands of bits of information the police were trying to contend with and they had some hot leads, they probably had to make decisions on where to point their focus.

But yes, they should have followed up on that voice mail. They probably had thousands of similar voice mails, given at the time there was an ACA-led Pedo Panic going on (maybe rightly, I don't know).

Myself, if I thought this story had any gravity, I'd walk into a police station to give a statement. Especially because she knew FA was in jail for being a Child Rapist, and especially because she knew the information (supposedly) came from his brother. I'd follow up with the man who said it, if he was a regular customer, and get him to go to the police as well, if he had any conviction in his second hand story beyond bar talk.

But I guess sitting on a voicemail for a decade is somewhat better than telling a traffic warden out your car window as you drive past him.

As for the articles assertion "A second person has come forward about a William Tyrrell person of interest, and police again never followed it up" - yes sure. I'm just wondering if these events of "coming forward" aren't half-hearted, and we should consider that in these newspaper opinion pieces.

Still, it's got WT back into the news, if nothing else.

From listening to the later episodes of Witness it was clear that police not following up was a widespread pattern.

People would report things - by whatever channel - and police would simply not follow up.

I see what you’re saying about some of these reports coming through strange pathways **but** some other tips were called in to Crimestoppers afeer appeals for info, some were statements made in person at police stations, some were sworn statements passed as evidence at other trials/inquest etc.

The common thread is they weren’t followed up, or weren’t followed up effectively.

It seems like a very haphazard operation.

 

[Lemony]

The coroner investigating William Tyrrell’s disappearance will consider new evidence if provided by detectives, following a series of explosive reports by news.com.au.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/nsw-coroner-will-consider-new-evidence-if-provided-by-detectives-following-newscomau-investigation/news-story/b5752dcede8a5f7388273a454abce775

 

[drsleuth]

DBM duplicate

 

[SouthAussie]

The coroner investigating William Tyrrell’s disappearance will consider new evidence if provided by detectives, following a series of explosive reports by news.com.au.

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/nsw-coroner-will-consider-new-evidence-if-provided-by-detectives-following-newscomau-investigation/news-story/b5752dcede8a5f7388273a454abce775

If police fail to investigate “relevant information”, a senior lawyer involved in the inquest said a complaint could be made to the NSW Police Force Commissioner or the watchdog dealing with police misconduct.

A spokeswoman for NSW Police, Erin Bouda, said “details [of the new evidence] remain unclear” and “its relevance to the case cannot be determined” but said Abbott “has been thoroughly investigated."

(from your link)

 

[Wexford]

If police fail to investigate “relevant information”, a senior lawyer involved in the inquest said a complaint could be made to the NSW Police Force Commissioner or the watchdog dealing with police misconduct.

A spokeswoman for NSW Police, Erin Bouda, said “details [of the new evidence] remain unclear” and “its relevance to the case cannot be determined” but said Abbott “has been thoroughly investigated."

(from your link)

BBM
They said that about a lot of people, then went back on it. I'm starting to wonder just how many mistakes have been made in that department and at what cost?