AZ - Lori Vallow Daybell charged w/ conspiring to kill ex-husband Charles Vallow and another relative, Brandon Boudreaux, Chandler, Maricopa County #3

[aafromaa]

I'm getting a poll ready that will ask if you feel the state has proven conspiracy to commit murder to the jury in the Daybell case. I'll post it a bit later this afternoon.

I’m not sure I’m ready to answer that poll just yet

ETA…But I did

Can we repeat it when the state rests? I’m really hoping for a bit more from them before they’re done

 

[Love Never Fails]

Perhaps, but I don’t think that scenario really fits, because there was not a lot of blood from Charles found at the scene. I think Charles died relatively quickly (within a couple of minutes max). I do agree that the second shot was used because the first didn’t cause instant death. If Tylee only heard one gunshot, that would mean neither Tylee or Lori were around for the second shot. Who knows? Lori does.

I guess I dreamed it but I thought one of the LE said there was a lot of blood under his chest. Thank you.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I would agree if there was no proof that she planned it (the Nephi reference) and no physical evidence (second shot) speaking against self-defense.

But isn’t that subjective. As far as nephi she could say she was joking or in a bad mood. You are correct it was not self defense. But that all points to Alex and he cannot testify. It doesn’t prove conspiracy. I am hoping for more evidence.
I know she is guilty. But the jury doesn’t know what we know.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I think so far it could depend on whether the jury believes the statements AC & LVD gave on the day it happened. But I think the state has shown that both are unreliable witnesses. So if the jury concludes AC & LVD were lying on that day, then I don’t think it is such a stretch for them to convict of the conspiracy based on the state showing AC was asked to spend the night before with his gun and that AC had previously stated he wished he could kill CV in LVD’s presence and she acted “nonchalantly” about that too just as she did the day of CV’s death.

I do wish they could have gotten texts between AC & LVD leading up to when they decided he would spend the night. I think they said something about them not being able to get them because they weren’t saved in the cloud so they don’t have the texts but do have record of calls between them or something. Can anyone shed any more light on any of that for me?

She is a cold one. But I think the prosecution has to show more.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I’m not sure I’m ready to answer that poll just yet

ETA…But I did

Can we repeat it when the state rests? I’m really hoping for a bit more from them before they’re done

I said no but after tomorrow it may be a Yes!

 

[Megnut]

LVD confirms she knew CV was dead.

How could she know that unless she witnessed the second shot? Is she admitting she learned it from AC, by phone?

Did she alert JJ's school, in case the morning was upsetting to him? Of course not.

I think AC messed up. He wasn't supposed to shoot CV until LVD left.

Because T heard the shot, LVD had to change the narrative. Kept some details, adjusted others.

IMO LVD planned to use T as a witness and as an alibi.

First to witness an argument that LVD started (T wouldn't know that part), then as a witness that Mother of The Year shuffled JJ to safety (somehow it's still CV's fault that JJ is alone in a running car -- but it's LVD who withheld the phone, assuring CV would come back inside, then keeping his phone from him abd ultimately separating him PERMANENTLY from JJ). And still Mother of The Year directs T to go to the car, then she runs out shoeless, as if she's in the sprint of her life.

IMO T was supposed to witness CV, angry (because of his phone), believe that LVD was in danger and be far, far away when CV was actually shot, so 911 could have been called immediately.

AC jumped the gun.

Didn't go down according to plan. So they were forced to improvise.

With a version that makes absolutely no sense.

JMO

 

[Love Never Fails]

LVD confirms she knew CV was dead.

How could she know that unless she witnessed the second shot? Is she admitting she learned it from AC, by phone?

Did she alert JJ's school, in case the morning was upsetting to him? Of course not.

I think AC messed up. He wasn't supposed to shoot CV until LVD left.

Because T heard the shot, LVD had to change the narrative. Kept some details, adjusted others.

IMO LVD planned to use T as a witness and as an alibi.

First to witness an argument that LVD started (T wouldn't know that part), then as a witness that Mother of The Year shuffled JJ to safety (somehow it's still CV fault that JJ is alone in a running car -- but it's LVD who withheld the phone, assuring CV would come back inside, then keeping his phone from him abd ultimately separating him PERMANENTLY from JJ). And still Mother of The Year, directs T to go to the car, then she runs out shoeless, as if she's in the sprint of her life.

IMO T was supposed to witness CV, angry (because of his phone), believe that LVD was in danger and be far, far away when CV was actually shot, so 911 could have been called immediately.

AC jumped the gun.

Didn't go down according to plan. So they were forced to improvise.

With a version that makes absolutely no sense.

JMO

Good post.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Text messages from LVD's prior trial.
There are some between LVD & CD days after CV was shot and killed.
I have no idea what texts/emails/phone calls will be allowed in this trial.
It's not like LVD had a love motive too, eh?

11:51 a.m. Message on July 14. Chad to Lori: “I need so badly to just gently kiss you…for hours.” Chad: “It would likely lead to other activities.” Lori to Chad: “Likely or Luckily?” Chad to Lori: “It would likely lead to nakedness.”

cont

DAY 23 | LIVE UPDATES: FBI agent reveals steamy text messages and other evidence found on Lori Vallow Daybell's iCloud accounts - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE LORI VALLOW DAYBELL TRIAL 11:55 a.m. Hart says he found no signs of regret or sorrow in any of the text messages following Charles’ death. We are now adjourning for the day and will be back at 8:30 a.m. on Monday. I’ll break down everything that happened in court tonight at […]

www.eastidahonews.com

 

[Tanager]

Any time I start to worry that the jury will not stitch it all together I think about the video of Charles talking about her delusional state and how worried he is about HER. I think this is the poignant moment that will burn in his credibility with them. He is so earnest and so gentle. It just isn't the portrait that Lori has been trying to paint. The jury knows she has lied to them, and once they sense they are being manipulated, it is really difficult to see her in any other light.

I think this will be punctuated as the last item of evidence, as it is literally the voice of Charles. Or, at least, I hope so.

 

[Nikynoo]

I guess I dreamed it but I thought one of the LE said there was a lot of blood under his chest. Thank you.

There was, but if Charles has been alive for more than a couple of minutes the blood loss would have been more and pooled around the body (not just under it). I must admit, I wonder whether Charles pleaded for help and Alex, well, I don’t want to finish that sentence.
Anyway, First responders testified that they were surprised there wasn’t more blood at the scene, but that could be that they were expecting cpr to have been carried out.

 

[wnk]

If I'm a juror, having heard what has been presented so far, I am thinking to myself:

• LVD invites AC to stay the night knowing CV is to visit the next morning to pick JJ up for school,
• LVD initiates and sustains conflict (grabbing CV's phone and playing keep away from CV with it),
• the conflict draws LVD's teen daughter into the room where the conflict is occurring,
• the conflict escalates to the point that first a bat and later a gun is introduced into the conflict,
• LVD sees that AC has a gun and hears a shot fired by him from that gun,
• LVD leaves the scene of the shooting in the shooting victim's vehicle (and with his wallet and cellphone) with her 2 children-witnesses,
• before she knows if anyone is dead and/or seriously injured and in need of emergency medical treatment,
• before she knows whether the conflict continued in her absence, thus endangering either AC and CV,
• LVD makes phone call(s) to AC while away in that rental car, and
• LVD NEVER CALLS 911 for LE and emergency assistance for either Charles or Alex - not when her daughter comes into the room (thus endangering herself), not when her brother comes into the room with a gun (thus potentially seriously escalating the conflict), not when she hears a shot and allegedly goes outside, not when she departs the scene in a vehicle, not at any time when she is driving around or buying breakfast items at Burger King or flip flops at Walgreen's, not when she takes JJ into his school and likely speaks with others, not when she is driving back to the scene.
• Instead, AC calls 911 at the exact time that LVD arrives at JJ's school where witnesses can attest to LVD being present somewhere other than the room where CV died.
  
  
  And I am thinking this situation has multiple indicators of a set up and the only indicators of a self-defense situation are those coming out of the mouth of the defendant in contrast to the indicators of a set up.

Agreed. Even without knowing anything else about the connected cases, the jury has enough info. (I probably missed some, too, since I've missed quite a bit of testimony)

• LVD had given friends the impression that CV was possessed
  • Not "proof" of conspiracy, but definitely peculiar enough behavior that if I were on the jury, I'd question anything else I heard from her
• LVD went no-contact with CV and JJ for over a month
  • This shows me that (at least at that time) LVD was NOT concerned about JJ's safety around CV, despite JJ's vulnerability as an autistic child
• LVD ensured that AC was present when CV arrived on 7/11
  • This could indicate that she was afraid of CV... except she (supposedly) doesn't bother to make sure he's awake, even though CV was running late?
• LVD claimed that she took CV's phone and was asking him about texts and keeping it from him while "walking" around her home
  • This would stand out to me as inconsistent behavior if she was truly in danger and fearful for her life.
• LVD heard a gunshot and yet left and never bothered to call 911
  • I wouldn't fault a mom from trying to remove her kids from the scene, but calling for help would have been most people's normal response if this was not something they were expecting to happen
• CV's phone, keys, and wallet somehow ended up in LVD's possession
  • This would make me suspicious about her story. You're afraid to have this man in your house, yet you invite him in long enough and he gets comfortable enough that he sets down his wallet and phone somewhere? That's just not something people do.
• AC did not call 911 until 37 minutes later -- after LVD has had a chance to be seen elsewhere (Burger King, Walgreens, JJ's school), acting as if the shooting just happened
  • This is probably the biggest conspiracy red flag for me. Why wait so long? Why lie about how long it's been? There haven't been any other logical explanations presented that would explain this time gap.
• LVD returned to the scene already aware that CV was dead and completely (yes, I will use the word) nonchalant... AND continues to act like this behavior was totally normal
  • This one would bug me an an emotional/gut level
• LVD did not inform CV's family of his death
  • Again, it would bug me on an emotional/gut level as it shows a complete lack of empathy

 

[Nikynoo]

LVD confirms she knew CV was dead.

How could she know that unless she witnessed the second shot? Is she admitting she learned it from AC, by phone?

Did she alert JJ's school, in case the morning was upsetting to him? Of course not.

I think AC messed up. He wasn't supposed to shoot CV until LVD left.

Because T heard the shot, LVD had to change the narrative. Kept some details, adjusted others.

IMO LVD planned to use T as a witness and as an alibi.

First to witness an argument that LVD started (T wouldn't know that part), then as a witness that Mother of The Year shuffled JJ to safety (somehow it's still CV fault that JJ is alone in a running car -- but it's LVD who withheld the phone, assuring CV would come back inside, then keeping his phone from him abd ultimately separating him PERMANENTLY from JJ). And still Mother of The Year, directs T to go to the car, then she runs out shoeless, as if she's in the sprint of her life.

IMO T was supposed to witness CV, angry (because of his phone), believe that LVD was in danger and be far, far away when CV was actually shot, so 911 could have been called immediately.

AC jumped the gun.

Didn't go down according to plan. So they were forced to improvise.

With a version that makes absolutely no sense.

JMO

That is a very good point. But perhaps Alex told her during their phone call that Charles was dead?

ETA from Nate’s live updates
At 7:50, the (Charles) device leaves the area (Loris House). At 7:52, Alex calls Lori’s phone. Alex calls Lori again at 8.06.

 

[tealrose]

So she bought TWO pairs of flip flops at Walgreens?

One to wear... and where did the other pair go? Still in the car? Or were they for Tylee?

And there was only the one pair inside the house by the door.

Did they both run out of the house without shoes?

Or was that maybe concocted so she could cover throwing away either her or Tylee's shoes?

This nonsense bothers me almost as much as anyone believing that AC really died of natural causes.

 

[Megnut]

There was, but if Charles has been alive for more than a couple of minutes the blood loss would have been more and pooled around the body (not just under it). I must admit, I wonder whether Charles pleaded for help and Alex, well, I don’t want to finish that sentence.
Anyway, First responders testified that they were surprised there wasn’t more blood at the scene, but that could be that they were expecting cpr to have been carried out.

And believed it was a dynamic shot, self-defense, in the midst of physical chaos.

Which it wasn't IMO.

CV was caught off guard. Executed center mass. Second shot once he was downed.

Crime scene doesn't match LVD's account. At all. No credible dialogue. No credible action.

JMO

 

[Love Never Fails]

I watched Lauren’s lunch podcast on Hidden True Crime. She doesn’t think the guilt/innocence is cut and dried. She thinks too that the questions from the jurors were maybe doubting police. She doesn’t know of course. She just couldn’t come to a conclusion of what jurors are thinking now.

 

[Tricia]

I’m not sure I’m ready to answer that poll just yet

ETA…But I did

Can we repeat it when the state rests? I’m really hoping for a bit more from them before they’re done

Absolutely. You can change your vote

 

[legalmomma]

Live Updates:

LIVE UPDATES: Detective, cell phone expert testify on day 6 of Lori Vallow Daybell's trial - East Idaho News

Lori Vallow Daybell is on trial in Maricopa County, Arizona, on one charge of conspiracy to commit the murder of Charles Vallow, her fourth husband. Nate Eaton is live in the courtroom with updates. Please excuse any typos. Times listed below are in Mountain Standard Time, so they are an hour...

www.eastidahonews.com

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

They're back in session.

 

[Izzylizzy]

 

[iamshadow21]

So she bought TWO pairs of flip flops at Walgreens?

One to wear... and where did the other pair go? Still in the car? Or were they for Tylee?

And there was only the one pair inside the house by the door.

Did they both run out of the house without shoes?

Or was that maybe concocted so she could cover throwing away either her or Tylee's shoes?

This nonsense bothers me almost as much as anyone believing that AC really died of natural causes.

The other pair was for Tylee.

I believe it's in the probable cause statement, this MSM article suggests that.

Police release information on investigation that led to charges against Lori Vallow in the murder of her former husband | CNN

Details of the investigation leading to the charges against Lori Vallow in the death of her former husband show he feared for their children's safety, police say, citing a mental health petition Charles Vallow filed.

www.cnn.com

MOO