Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[mskrisc]

Can anyone shed some light as to why we are missing so many time & date stamps?


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[MrsThreadgoode]

Woman missing, suspected escort, last known contact a very wealthy man...

Ever think that LE didn't chase after LB because her last known contacts were all men with money?

Hiya Snoop! I am actually furious at the Metro Toronto Police officer(s)who were assigned to Laura Babcock’s missing case. When I see the enormous amount of evidence which could have quickly been uncovered when Shawn Lerner gave so much information to the police. Had they been diligent and begun an investigation immediately, as they should have, DM and MS would have been arrested in no time, and Tim Bosma and WM would still be alive.

The police had ample opportunity ... they simply didn’t think an “escort” with mental health issues who used drugs was worth their time to be diligent and investigate properly. We are all human beings with faults and no matter what deserve the same diligent effort.

I am just sickened by this. Those officers involved in WM’s and Laura’s murders should be deeply ashamed of themselves. They did not perform their jobs. They should definitely be held to account in some way for indirectly allowing the murders of two more people.

The Hamilton Wentworth police and the OPP were outstanding, and immediately got on to Tim’s case tenaciously.

And they wouldn’t have had to if Metro Toronto police had done there jobs. Such a wealth of evidence could have been discovered quickly. My heart and mind are screaming at those officers. (Rant over.)


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[swedie]

I live in a small city of 12,000 and we have one (ugly) tower in the center of town.
The Roger's man that testified said a cell phone has a range of 20 miles.

Yes a range of 20 miles BUT if there is a cell tower closer to the cell phone's location, it will ping off the closest tower. MOO.

 

[Inspector_North]

After seeing the texts between DM and CN in this case, it's almost impossible to believe that CN was that naïve about what DM was doing the night she assisted him in hiding the Eliminator and Toolbox. Dungey's last exchange with CN rings louder and more profound. MOO

'“I deserve you, and you deserve me.”

“That’s what he wrote to you?” asked Thomas Dungey.

“Yes,”replied Noudga.

“Thank you,” said Dungey, “no further questions.”'

 

[Grey-St]

IMO... MS was probably just as involved in the WM murder, but wasn’t charged because LE didn’t have anything against him. Apparently MS wasn’t home that evening and DM was out dinning with MB


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This is very interesting. How do you know this?

 

[Grey-St]

Hiya Snoop! I am actually furious at the Metro Toronto Police officer(s)who were assigned to Laura Babcock’s missing case. When I see the enormous amount of evidence which could have quickly been uncovered when Shawn Lerner gave so much information to the police. Had they been diligent and begun an investigation immediately, as they should have, DM and MS would have been arrested in no time, and Tim Bosma and WM would still be alive.

The police had ample opportunity ... they simply didn’t think an “escort” with mental health issues who used drugs was worth their time to be diligent and investigate properly. We are all human beings with faults and no matter what deserve the same diligent effort.

I am just sickened by this. Those officers involved in WM’s and Laura’s murders should be deeply ashamed of themselves. They did not perform their jobs. They should definitely be held to account in some way for indirectly allowing the murders of two more people.

The Hamilton Wentworth police and the OPP were outstanding, and immediately got on to Tim’s case tenaciously.

And they wouldn’t have had to if Metro Toronto police had done there jobs. Such a wealth of evidence could have been discovered quickly. My heart and mind are screaming at those officers. (Rant over.)


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I couldn’t agree more. It reeks of discrimination and is so very upsetting. I truly believe that after all is said and done, the Babcock family should file a civil claim against the Toronto police. It would be justified.

 

[swedie]

Some of us believe it is a male in black shorts sunbathing.
View attachment 126317
View attachment 126318
View attachment 126319

snipped from [video=youtube;46QwzJZulf4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=198&v=46QwzJZulf4[/video]

Likely MS after one of his nights of indulgences at WM's house. MOO.

 

[Miranda]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/laura-babcock-trial-millard-testify-1.4399071

It's his right as an accused person to sit in the witness box and give his version of events if he so chooses. Usually, that would happen through what's called "examination in chief," where a defence lawyer asks their client questions to allow them to give their version of an event.

An amicus is also sometimes appointed by a judge to assist a self-represented defendant, and that person could theoretically examine Millard — but that hasn't happened in this case so far.

What would likely happen if Millard chose to testify, Crew said, is that the judge would allow him to sit in the witness box and just give his own testimony "more in a narrative fashion instead of the standard question and answer format that you would see if he did have counsel."

 

[winter2017]

Junebug67, what is weird, that DM killed his father himself? DM is a natural born killer. He is wired to be a killer. I doubt there is anyone he would not kill. People are natural born killers and that is what he is.
I also think MS had violent instincts and hooking up with DM allowed him to be able to do what was natural to him. Both are natural born killers.
I just wish our justice system would have the death penalty there is no good to keep them alive, they are worthless excuses for human beings.

 

[winter2017]

Grey-St., I feel the same way. The work the Hamilton police did was outstanding. I hope that the Babcock family can pursue a civil lawsuit against the Toronto police. They did nothing even with a witness going to them with some evidence.
The Bosma family and I hope once the trial is over the Babcock family will win lawsuits against DM. Even though he thought he could shelter his assets by signing over to mother I hope that will not be allowed and both these families take all the money he has. That will be further justice and DM is left penniless. That would be what DM deserves.

 

[winter2017]

Ms Sherlock, MS I believe actually enjoyed killing. He got some kind of kick out of killing. He had smiles in the photos of him by the eliminator and after the murder of Tim Bosma he was at the wedding of sister and looked happy. Probably he is a psycho path like DM.
I doubt he has any remorse, he cleaned up his appearance for the trials and probably from coaching by the lawyer

 

[swedie]

And if the missing person is of adult age, police will not tell you where they are, if they do find them. Privacy and all that jazz. No matter if the person is an addict, and not functioning mentally, trust me. Been there with a family member.

But LE did pick LB up once that we know of and took her to the hospital. IIRC her mother or father called LE to make this happen claiming she was mentally unstable. Apparently LE did have some background information on LB which went back before the missing person's report was filed. In all honesty, I personally don't think we should criticize LE before we have all the facts.

How do we know they didn't contact DM or anyone else connected to her, the escort business or men she was servicing? We don't. Did LE contact DM and he gave them some and bull story as he did with SL, making LB appear as a very troubled young lady into drugs and escorting (which we know she was, and perhaps LE knew that long before her disappearance also), and DM stressed he had suggested to LB she should get help, that he tried to help her but couldn't get through to her about the dangers she was putting herself in...sounding sincere to LE. What more could LE do other than to get a search warrant for all of DM's properties and his electronics looking for evidence. Seems pretty steep when they really had no real indication other than her phone records in which he could have easily explain away with lies, about how she had called him looking for a place to stay, drugs, just wanting to talk to someone, asking for money, rides, or a million other things. Some people make great liars and DM is one of them. They only thing LE had to go on was DM was the last person to have contact with her via cell phone.The fact that other people who knew LB, claimed to have spoken to her or seen her after July 4th, pretty much indicated to LE DM was not the last person to have had contact with he...if they were questioning people. Shall we put LE on the back burner until we get the facts? ALL MOO.

 

[swedie]

If MM renamed the iPad it will tell us a lot about how honest her testimony will be.

I have to question if it was MM. Wouldn't she have been with DM and MS on the way back to Oakville when DM dropped MS off? Why would she stay at DM's? Perhaps CN did the job of renaming the ipad. JMO.

 

[swedie]

The name of the Ipad and when it was changed or who changed it doesn't matter. Based on the photos and things that happened with it right after the alleged LB murder show that MS and MM had it in their possession. Some how I doubt MM is taking bikini selfies and saving them on DMs Ipad.

Weellll it does matter to some. Because I think it's important to know who else was in the Maple Gate house while LB was being murdered. Apparently it's looking like DM was not alone in the house with her. Who all was there? MM, MS, CN? MOO.

 

[Coldpizza]

Good morning. Friendly reminder no court today.

The trial is not sitting on Monday and will resume Tuesday at 10 a.m.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/babcock-trial-day-14-1.4396243

 

[andreww]

Knew what? That Mark was given an iPad in exchange for doing a job? Because seems Millard was constantly flipping people little gifts here and there. Money, weed, red bags etc

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I wonder what prompted the text where Smich tells Millard that he didn't buy the iPad, Millard had given it to him? Was Millard trying to collect on what he thought was a debt?

 

[mimimic]

With regards to WM, perhaps all we will see is a single text or two from DM to an unknown-explaining something about his father and his habits or what door to use etc.

 

[jash]

<snipped>

However, I do remember a text from DM to MS stating he needed to “call the police back”. Does anyone remember when this occurred and can anyone speculate what it may have been about?

It was just a few days (3 or 4?) before WM committed 'suicide'. Was there a case involving one of DM's tenants around that time, perhaps?

Didn’t DM claim/report a break in at Maple Gate? Wasn’t there some inference through the TB trial that one or more of the handguns was stolen in that claimed event? I mean this in reference to the call to police.

The first thing that came to my mind was that DM had lost his license in or around October 2012. I don't believe we ever learned why.

 

[swedie]

How did it get in their possession though? Several pieces of information over both trials suggest DM gave it to them, and at one point Smich even had to point out to Millard that he hadn’t bought the iPad from him, it had been given. I mean WHAT does that mean? If it is the spoils of a murder they both planned and committed, why does DM have such authority over this iPad? It’s just hard to understand the dyamic right now.

My apology for the graphic content.
Presumably DM pick LB up at the station, brought her back to WM's house on Maple Gate. Perhaps MM and MS were already there and they all sat around drinking and doing drugs. At some point DM may have taken LB to a bedroom suggesting to be intimate with her and instead murdered her. Or did they OD her and DM took her up to a bedroom while she passed away so they didn't have to watch her die. I've heard it's not a pretty sight...sorry. I don't think we will ever get the truth even from MM. She will deny knowing anything about LB's death if it happened on her watch. And maybe she didn't honestly know what was going on. Had DM murdered her in the bedroom where he replaced the mattress, he may have left her there for hours where she let bodily fluids. Maybe she was violently ill on the bed from a drug OD which is typical.

LE seem to imply a gun was used, but why was there no indication of a bullet passing through her body, such as through the floor, which would have been evident during the investigation. There would have been shrapnel also. There is no way to repair damage like that. DM would have had to replace the floor AND the box spring. Had he replaced the flooring, LE would have found evidence in the basement ceiling above the bedroom. Perhaps they did find this evidenc and we just haven't heard it yet. Example being: TB's murder, the bullet passed through him and shattered the window. I'm not so sure DM would have wanted to make a mess to clean up when there were other ways to go about it. With his father's alleged murder, he had to make it appear as a suicide...what easier way than a gun. It would have been very hard to get his dad to drink that much alcohol and if he poisoned him, that would show up in toxicology reports. The other thing is, is I don't think they wanted MM to know, therefore a gunshot wouldn't have been hard to miss the sound of one by MM. And where was WM through all of this? Personally I think this was all hush hush between DM and MS. BUT if it was CN who set up the ipad July 4th, when did she arrive at the house? Too many questions unanswered still. Answers we may never get. ALL MOO of course.

 

[Woodland]

But LE did pick LB up once that we know of and took her to the hospital. IIRC her mother or father called LE to make this happen claiming she was mentally unstable. Apparently LE did have some background information on LB which went back before the missing person's report was filed. In all honesty, I personally don't think we should criticize LE before we have all the facts.

How do we know they didn't contact DM or anyone else connected to her, the escort business or men she was servicing? We don't. Did LE contact DM and he gave them some and bull story as he did with SL, making LB appear as a very troubled young lady into drugs and escorting (which we know she was, and perhaps LE knew that long before her disappearance also), and DM stressed he had suggested to LB she should get help, that he tried to help her but couldn't get through to her about the dangers she was putting herself in...sounding sincere to LE. What more could LE do other than to get a search warrant for all of DM's properties and his electronics looking for evidence. Seems pretty steep when they really had no real indication other than her phone records in which he could have easily explain away with lies, about how she had called him looking for a place to stay, drugs, just wanting to talk to someone, asking for money, rides, or a million other things. Some people make great liars and DM is one of them. They only thing LE had to go on was DM was the last person to have contact with her via cell phone.The fact that other people who knew LB, claimed to have spoken to her or seen her after July 4th, pretty much indicated to LE DM was not the last person to have had contact with he...if they were questioning people. Shall we put LE on the back burner until we get the facts? ALL MOO.

BBM - imo, this really narrows the scope for TPS where missing persons are concerned.

TPS could have had much more than LB's phone records, if they chose to go that route. What did LE do by Christmas 2012 (6 months after she had not been heard from) when LB was still off the grid? Her banking records, health card activity etc should have been checked at some point during that time frame - and beyond. That's where a search warrant would have been prudent.

To suggest the only option for LE in any jurisdiction has is to go from a phone record to a search warrant for the property/phone records etc for a last known contact seems like critical thinking is not required on their part. Jmo.

I'm looking forward to DM's trial for the murder of his father - when TPS arrived at the house to investigate a report of a suicide, did they know that DM was the last known contact in the still missing LB? If so, what should have happened at that point where LB was concerned? Or did it not come up in that investigation due to no one taking an official report from LB's parents or SL? It's likely the answers to these crucial questions will never be answered other than in a civil suit.

The questions still linger with no answers, and what happens in an investigation into the next LB?