Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #3

[paris_paris]

Hmmm? look at the shadow ...could be a shirtless woman or an elbow.

Maybe. It seems like a strange shot. Like it was taken from a surveillance video. I think it is male... laying on a towel that is too small. Is that a pair of boots beside him?

 

[mimimic]

:0 That is a lot of missing people !! I had to google it today as I was curious why or how it could happen to a person, but this makes it make a little more sense. Unbelievable that it is so many!

“More than 1” is really understating it I think. I feel like there’s at least one per day in each of the 17 divisions.

 

[Inspector_North]

bbm - can you provide a quote or link substantiating that?

I know others have responded, but this is what I was referring to,

"But he also told reporters that Dellen Millard, the last person who called her on her cell, was not interviewed.Is that traditional?
Toronto Police say they did not have the phone records until after Millard’s May 10 arrest in the disappearance and slaying of Ancaster husband and father Tim Bosma."

http://torontosun.com/2013/06/05/cops-delay-in-talking-to-dellen-millard-about-missing-woman-baffles/wcm/1fb27d08-3b44-4550-a4f5-f1228d39461d

 

[Georgeo]

Not sure who you mean by powers that be in relation to cell phone pings? Not sure anything can be changed about the process in compelling private companies to turn over customers’ data.

Not cell phone pings, but text and call records...

 

[mimimic]

Say10 comparing the dog to the last pic he sent...? So still it seems as a comparison. weird gasp! maybe they previously put dog in just to see. Then took it out. sorry thinking out loud./ in type

 

[Woodland]

Not sure who you mean by powers that be in relation to cell phone pings? Not sure anything can be changed about the process in compelling private companies to turn over customers’ data.

It's my impression that cell phone providers and LE have a great relationship - including providers having staff to respond to the requests from LE and prioritizing emergency situations.

 

[winter2017]

Woodland,, discrimination that is it, and it was the same with Laura, they thought because she was involved in drugs had a mental illness that just probably put her file in the garbage, it is typical of the TPS. Laura was moving around but she still stayed at her parent's home >
I have dealt with the TPS and they are terrible, they treat people with mental illness worse and a lot of disabled people. 51 Division one of the worst.
The TTC staff also not good. One person in the Toronto Star today said she was stranded on the TTC had a wheelchair and was ignored by TTC staff for 2 hours treated her life she was a bum.

 

[winter2017]

Andreww, I agree 100% and on social media elsewhere someone claiming to be friends with MM is claiming she has changed her life etc. I do not think she will say much that will be helpful at all. They must have some reason to need to call her.

 

[Woodland]

MM will say absolutely nothing useful. She might admit to seeing Laura but then she'll say she went to her room and heard nothing. LB was gone the next morning and she didn't ask about her. She'll have to describe the conversation during the drive back to Oakville and their stop by the lake, but I highly doubt she saw or heard anything. Its all about protecting her own hide at this point and I am positive that she has been told not to admit to seeing anything incriminating.

Trust you won't mind if this is quoted if she knocks the socks off of people in a positive way?

 

[RandomName479]

BillAndrew - THANK YOU for the timeline......I can follow the texts SO much more easily when they are laid out in order.......a few things that came up for me....

1. Smich (esp) and others seem to be using more than one phone.....several instances of part conversations or him saying "link me at whatever number"
2. DM is a liar.
3. CN was in the picture well before DM and JS split. The lack of morality shouldn't surprise me.
4. I believe DM "stole" LB's phone and checked the serial # and pretended she had left it in his car and he couldn't find it. For some reason it seems that LB had AM's old phone....
5. LB was obsessed with DM and was seeking attention from him (no disrespect to LB)
6. CN was the one who had a major problem with LB. For some reason it seems like LB could push her buttons and get under her skin.
7. I can see where the Crown is getting their "love triangle" (although octagon may be a better term) from
8. This makes me think DM lured LB with an offer of sex and she was killed during some kind of rough sex game......she mentioned she "wanted him to hurt her" and likely felt safe with him.
9. I'm wondering about AM's relationship with LB.....a couple of texts have me thinking there may have been a sexual relationship there....
10. I believe MS was involved in hooking DM up with Isho and getting him the gun, but from the evidence I can't figure out where he was the night of LB's death or if he was directly involved (I have no doubt he is a slimeball and is guilty of murder here)
12. I can't help but wonder if this crew used other means of communicating (FB messenger, Whatsapp, etc)

Again, big thank you to BillAndrew....all MOO.

 

[Tealgrove]

MM will say absolutely nothing useful. She might admit to seeing Laura but then she'll say she went to her room and heard nothing. LB was gone the next morning and she didn't ask about her. She'll have to describe the conversation during the drive back to Oakville and their stop by the lake, but I highly doubt she saw or heard anything. Its all about protecting her own hide at this point and I am positive that she has been told not to admit to seeing anything incriminating.

I'm not convinced that we won't get anything useful from MM's testimony. I think expectations of what she can tell us need to be in place. I don't think any BOMBSHELL admissions are forthcoming that's for sure.

I do believe she can clear up some inconsistencies in the timeline. She can say whether she and MS were at DM's on the night LB was murdered and if anyone else was there. She can confirm or deny MS's whereabouts/movements and either provide alibis or not. She can give us some info on the iPad that people so desperately want explained.

MS was certainly worried about information she could tell LE. I think we should be expecting some prudent testimony. They wouldn't be calling her as a witness if she didn't add something to the narrative.

MOO

 

[Georgeo]

It's my impression that cell phone providers and LE have a great relationship - including providers having staff to respond to the requests from LE and prioritizing emergency situations.

That is great to hear!

 

[Typhoo1961]

All the money in the world will never be enough , but for Sharlene Bosma to have the money to raise her daughter and probably donate some to the charitable fund for other victims of homicide.

Sharlene has repeatedly said (in an interview with the CBC) that it is not about the money. What she wants is another court to acknowledge what these 's did to her husband and family.

 

[lclabtech]

It's my impression that cell phone providers and LE have a great relationship - including providers having staff to respond to the requests from LE and prioritizing emergency situations.

Wasn’t suggesting there that cell phone providers are uncooperative in emergency situations ie) a missing person who is actively threatening suicide, someone who has called 911 and isn’t able to give the address.

This would be a request for an investigative ping though on a missing adult. It’s my understanding that there’s a more formal process on obtaining that information.

 

[matou]

r.e. MM's testimony in the Bosma trial. We found out about "celebrating" after they got the truck. We found out about DM asking her to wear a fake pregnancy belly (to run drugs or weapons?). We found out DM was treating her like a piece of meat by slapping her butt in front of MS. There is more but I can't remember. I think she will give up some info. JMO

 

[musicaljoke]

Trust you won't mind if this is quoted if she knocks the socks off of people in a positive way?

I think that it would be good to do exactly that. My knee-jerk reaction is to feel that anyone connected to DM and MS is, by association, covered in moral sewer sludge, as though something horrible oozes out of those two , and destroys everyone who gives them more than a passing thought. It would give me, and others like me, hope for humanity to know that this is not the case.

 

[billandrew]

We have vague and conflicting reporting for the evidence on July 3 and 4. Until we get more concrete info, here's my best guess at the timeline of what happened:

• LB is murdered at Maple Gate sometime between July 3 at 7pm and July 4 at 10am.
• In the morning, before 10:43am, DM rolls her body up in the blue tarp and texts MS: "I rolled my first spliff".
• LB's body is loaded into a vehicle (WM's blue-green van perhaps?).
• At 10:43am, they (DM, MS, or both) hook up LB's iPad to DM's computer. They reset it and set it up as Mark's iPad.
• Shortly afterwards, DM and MS leave Maple Gate with LB's body in the vehicle. They take LB's phone, too.
• They drive along the QEW toward MS's house in Oakville.
• As they drive over the Credit River in Mississauga, MS tosses LB's phone over the bridge into the water. This bridge is quite close to Indian Grove in Mississauga. I'm guessing they tossed LB's phone because that's also what they did with Bosma's phone, and also "if you go swimming you can find her phone".
• (Edit to add: some reports said they pinged along Lakeshore Rd, so they could have taken a detour to toss her phone in the lake rather than the river)
• From Maple Gate to Indian Grove is about a 15-20 minute drive, so if they departed shortly after resetting the iPad, they could have reached Indian Grove "around 11am", the approximate time that LB's phone last pinged.
• After tossing LB's phone, DM dropped MS off at his mom's house in Oakville.
• DM then continued on to his hangar and then the farm, eventually stashing LB's body in the barn. I'm curious why he stopped by the hangar. Someone else had to be there, as evidenced by the photo of him working on the plane (the photo was taken on DM's phone but it's not a selfie). Meanwhile, LB's body was in the back of DM's vehicle? Hm...

Any thoughts?

Also, I'm guessing that DM's text to MS on July 3: "I'll be back in 15 mins. Don't be out front," refers to going to pick up LB from Kipling Station. This could be revealing that DM and MS have a plan of some sort, and DM is bringing LB to Maple Gate and doesn't want her to know that MS is there too.

 

[Woodland]

I think that it would be good to do exactly that. My knee-jerk reaction is to feel that anyone connected to DM and MS is, by association, covered in moral sewer sludge, as though something horrible oozes out of those two , and destroys everyone who gives them more than a passing thought. It would give me, and others like me, hope for humanity to know that this is not the case.

On the surface DM and crew were not the type most here would invite to Sunday dinner, however that does not, and imo should not mean the crew are the lowest of the low. Why are they wandering through life and looking up to the likes of DM? Many reasons that most will not give another thought towards imo.

If I was the Crown for this case and thought MM had important info that would put DM and MS away (and that she was not involved), I would have offered her the best damn drug rehab Ontario has to offer - or beyond if that's what it would take. Maybe it was offered and maybe she took it - we don't seem to know - from MSM that is.

Fwiw and imo - continuing to run down the crew only keeps them at the level they already think they deserve and, keeps LE thinking that the less they can do in this regard is OK by those that pay their salary. I like solutions - not continuous problems.

 

[musicaljoke]

I wonder if MM witnessed MS and DM loading the Eliminator. She was likely asked to stay in the truck while the two "talked to the girl outback". Would she wait in the truck for over an hour? I guess we will find out.

 

[Grey-St]

I wonder if MM witnessed MS and DM loading the Eliminator. She was likely asked to stay in the truck while the two "talked to the girl outback". Would she wait in the truck for over an hour? I guess we will find out.

IIRC it sounded as though DM did not want her there. She very well could have not tagged along.