Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

[huntergerrard]

DM already had a gun for months. He got the Walther at the very least in February. Again, you’re drawing arbitrary lines through events that there is reason to believe are not even connected and calling that obvious. It’s not obvious. We don’t even know when DM and LB got back in communication or who initiated it. From the evidence we have in this trial, she called him first on July 1. Plans heats up on an incinerator after DM breaks up with CN and before he gets back with her. Why? Certainly not obvious!

The idea of incineration for hire is just one thought that could make a 15,000 incinerator make some sense - in Dellen’s head. It doesn’t actually have to be realistic. He’s desperate for a gun in January “cause he’s under pressure and stuff’s gotta start happening”. What pressure? What stuff? Not obvious!

I just had a creeping suspicion that the "another dead deer" text was maybe DM trying to get rid of CN's texting buddy, Boris, but it doesn't add up exactly. Texts about Boris were in June, another dead deer in August.

 

[huntergerrard]

I think the robbery idea is well worth considering, though I think she left a lot of that money at home. Presumably that would have been a relatively spontaneous motive, perhaps even as late as when she showed up at the house with money and electronics. We don’t know what DM could have gleaned in his 23 minute call with her on the 1st though. She seemed to be very open with information and chatty about her life.

If LB thought they were going to Vegas she may have wanted to take some extra spending money to gamble.

 

[arm chair sleuth]

Deleted

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but it is a very well done timeline of the Crown’s case
by CBC’s Shannon Martin:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rial-a-timeline-of-the-crown-s-case-1.4418858


Also a new CBC tab dedicated to the Laura Babcock trial:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/topic/Tag/Babcock Murder Trial


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[huntergerrard]

Snipped by me.

I'm not forgetting the evidence of the peach shnapps incident. Firstly, I wouldn't call it a 'confession', but rather bragging. MS was not trying to remove the pain of a guilty conscience by telling the truth, he was trying to impress much younger teenagers.

Secondly, it happened a long time ago when the witnesses were impressionable kids and stoned. Yes, taken with the date of the recorded video, it does provide strong evidence that Smich's rap song about burning her body was true, but I don't believe it proves he killed her.

Secondly, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that someone like Smich would take delight in using that evil machine to burn the body of his friends victim.

I'll also comment, why would DM need MS to help kill LB? The Bosma plan required an accomplice to drive the Yukon, help move the body, and possibly shoot the victim from behind. Nothing like that was needed when he brought LB home. So again, the assumption that MS must have taken part is lacking proof, I think.

BBM Because DM needed someone to pin it on if things went bad. That's why there seems to be no pictures of DM, only MS. MS has the iPad and the red bag. These are just a few of the reasons, there's likely more.

 

[Satchie]

A couple of things about that. That "joke" is disconnected from the previous comment by time. I would also be surprised if DM is familiar with this lingo of southern states racists and it would be even more surprising for MS to get it. He was in the middle of special ops which doesn't seem time for obscure jokes. Not to mention, that joke would be too clever for DM. He was trying to get a message out in lingo they are very familiar with. IMO
I think this KKK stuff out of the blue is bizarre.

The Ayak password was discussed in in the 2005 best seller Freakanomics, Chapter 2 'How Is the Ku Klux Klan Like a Group of Real-Estate Agents'. DM might also have known it through people he hung out with who thought it was a cool greeting, or movies like Birth of a Nation, or possibly from video gaming with a KKK plot. That MS was clueless about it and Millard just moved on without explaining makes it seem not very important, to me.

July 3, the murder plan is underway:

3:09 pm Millard texts Smich: "back around 6."
3:09 pm Millard texts Smich: "how bout the white & brown paint over the side entrance? no rain there."
3:21 pm Smich texts Millard: "Yea I'm taking a bath first with Marlena."
3:42 pm Smich texts Millard: "I guess u couldn't get drinks."
6:28 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll scoop some heini."
6:28 pm Smich texts Millard: "Kkk my ."
6:39 pm Millard texts Smich: "ayak."
6:42 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ayak?"
6:51 pm Millard texts Smich: "I'll be back in 15 mins, don't be out front."
7:26 pm Millard texts Smich: "present for you at the top of the stairs." (Beer?)
7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash."
7:33 pm Millard texts Smich: "tru. I'm on a mission, back in 1 hr."
7:33 pm Smich texts Millard: "Ok. Let's grab something after. It's all good."

I see no evidence these two were scheming together to murder LB. MS appears to be focussed on scrounging beer and pizza money.

 

[Stratocaster]

And then there was the time Smich volunteered to get the neighbour's dog to test out the BBQ, "LOL".

Smich had his little posse of high schoolers to manipulate just like Millard had his. And Smich had the MWJ connection. DM had to go though Smich to reach MWJ, according to the texts.

This is isn't an either/or situation. They can both be bad. And they can both be found guilty.

I know I've heard this at the very beginning, but I need reminding how DM and MS were introduced to each other. I believe it was a drug connection hook-up of mutual friend of both?

 

[inbetweendoors]

I know I've heard this at the very beginning, but I need reminding how DM and MS were introduced to each other. I believe it was a drug connection hook-up of mutual friend of both?

Didn't specify a mutual friend, but yes, MS was selling and DM got a 'referral' to buy from him.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

From ABro..

Police found a DVR listed on their search warrant in the closet of Christina Noudga’s bedroom

Now correct me if I'm wrong but the only place I ever saw the DVR mentioned was in the letters, so logic would tell you that cops had read the letters before they confiscated them.

I believe that LE were aware from their search of the hangar that there was a security DVR missing from the hangar, and that is why it was on the warrant, not because it was mentioned in the letters.

MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Yes, you are on the right track. Think about all the people DM had contact with while in jail and that will help you understand how the letters got out of the jail.

Yes, Winter, I do remember this, or something very close to it. I will see what I can dig up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[arm chair sleuth]

When I saw the rap video it looked like MS was reading from a laptop, or was he recording himself while he was being recorded by someone else. Is it possible he didn't write the lyrics and was merely "rapping" them?

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

If you see the house they live in they are not wealthy. If they paid for the very high priced lawyer she had , I don't know how they would have the money to pay for her trips. Unless they are somehow getting money from a source. I think it could be possible the mother of DM is giving her money. Maybe CN knew something about the mother and so to keep her quiet the mother is giving her money. She could be using the assets DM transferred to her to give money to CN. Anything, in this case, is possible, it is such a bizarre case.

Her parents are both chiropractors and own their own business, so even though their home is small. They probably have a fair amount of money saved because of their professions? MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I think the majority of people here know exactly what Smich is all about and what he probably did or didn't do. However, they are not looking at this case with an unbiased opinion and basing that opinion on the evidence that has only been presented in this case. At this point I have little doubt that Smich will be found not guilty, not because he is, but because there just isn't the evidence to prove it.

I respectfully disagree. I believe there is a more evidence against MS in this trial than there was in Tim’s. I believe the Crown has proven its case, and that their summation will tie everything up together cohesively.

I am looking forward to hearing the judge’s charge to the jury.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[tmar]

What would DM gain from a mistrial?
Probably nothing, other than a chance to be in the spotlight again and it would give him something to do for next 5 years. T

Yes Minordetails:
DM craves the spotlight.
There is nothing for him to lose, and with his antics, he'ld consider himself so smart, to purposefully cause a mistrial.
That would be horrid: a further long delay.
The new Judge could possibly not allow certain evidence, to DM's advantage!!!!
:thinking:

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Yes, I guess I'm interested in the question of what can be proven.

When I say 'proved', that includes circumstantial evidence that leads to concluding, beyong a reasonable doubt, that the crime in question was committed.

To me, the comment 'don't be out front', on it's own, isn't sufficient circumstantial evidence of an agreed plan to murder. For one thing, if they had a plan, DM wouldn't need to tell MS that. He could just say 'I'll be there in 15", and MS would know what to do.

We can’t determine what “don’t be out front” means or any of the texts around that time period. So much can be read into them, and they can be subjectively interpreted countless ways. Too much of an enigma to get a definitive meaning from.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

There are still a lot of folks that think there is not enough to find MS guilty of M1. I believe there is. Yes he lived in the house and could have not known what DM was up to. But he did know the homemade incinerator was not for garbage. It was only after it failed that the Eliminator entered the picture with the Pet Cremation business story, yet just days before LB disappeared ......

From Bill's timeline

May 28 4:39 pm Millard sends Smich photos of the homemade incinerator.
May 28 4:47 pm Smich texts Millard: "Do u have any bones for tonight? Or we just putting it together?"
May 28 4:48 pm Millard texts Smich: "I will have something."
May 28 4:48 pm Smich texts Millard: "Tru. And we should try something else as well. Something wet."
May 28 4:49 pm Smich texts Millard: "I'm just sayin. Wet like a pu**y and hard like a d**k."



MS knew! And like the TB trial, both were involved in the plan, and who did the actual murder is not required. The Crown has shown enough before, during, and after activity by both to prove guilty of M1 in my opinion.

I am in full agreement with you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Snipped by me.

I'm not forgetting the evidence of the peach shnapps incident. Firstly, I wouldn't call it a 'confession', but rather bragging. MS was not trying to remove the pain of a guilty conscience by telling the truth, he was trying to impress much younger teenagers.

Secondly, it happened a long time ago when the witnesses were impressionable kids and stoned. Yes, taken with the date of the recorded video, it does provide strong evidence that Smich's rap song about burning her body was true, but I don't believe it proves he killed her.

Secondly, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that someone like Smich would take delight in using that evil machine to burn the body of his friends victim.

I'll also comment, why would DM need MS to help kill LB? The Bosma plan required an accomplice to drive the Yukon, help move the body, and possibly shoot the victim from behind. Nothing like that was needed when he brought LB home. So again, the assumption that MS must have taken part is lacking proof, I think.

MOO. They were tied at the hip, and they were thrill seekers, who committed many thefts and crimes together. And then, together, deliberately, their acts escalated to include murder, and it is readily apparent that they BOTH enjoyed it immensely. If not, the murders would have stopped after one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Inspector_North]

MOO. They were tied at the hip, and they were thrill seekers, who committed many thefts and crimes together. And then, together, deliberately, their acts escalated to include murder, and it is readily apparent that they BOTH enjoyed it immensely. If not, the murders would have stopped after one.

Agreed! Thrill seekers moving on to the next level of ruthless thrills. MOO

From Bill's timeline


Mar 8 3:44 pm Smich texts Millard: "Did you ever hear the expression 'don't trust anybody'????"
Mar 8 3:44 pm Smich texts Millard: "They took out the last part of the sentence: 'Except for me'!!!"
Mar 8 3:44 pm Smich texts Millard: "Lol."
Mar 8 3:46 pm Millard texts Smich: "Yes, they took that part out."
Mar 8 3:47 pm Smich texts Millard: ""
Mar 8 3:47 pm Smich texts Millard: "I love you my ."
Mar 8 3:47 pm Millard texts Smich: "Much love cracker."
Mar 8 5:14 pm Millard texts Smich: "How ruthless are you willing to be to make $$?"
Mar 8 5:16 pm Millard texts Smich: "I have some ideas, but it's next level stuff. We'll talk about this weekend. I know you need income."
Mar 8 5:21 pm Smich texts Millard: "I gotta do something. Or else I'm screwed."

 

[Inspector_North]

Agreed! Thrill seekers moving on to the next level of ruthless thrills. MOO

From Bill's timeline


Mar 8 3:44 pm Smich texts Millard: "Did you ever hear the expression 'don't trust anybody'????"
Mar 8 3:44 pm Smich texts Millard: "They took out the last part of the sentence: 'Except for me'!!!"
Mar 8 3:44 pm Smich texts Millard: "Lol."
Mar 8 3:46 pm Millard texts Smich: "Yes, they took that part out."
Mar 8 3:47 pm Smich texts Millard: ""
Mar 8 3:47 pm Smich texts Millard: "I love you my ."
Mar 8 3:47 pm Millard texts Smich: "Much love cracker."
Mar 8 5:14 pm Millard texts Smich: "How ruthless are you willing to be to make $$?"
Mar 8 5:16 pm Millard texts Smich: "I have some ideas, but it's next level stuff. We'll talk about this weekend. I know you need income."
Mar 8 5:21 pm Smich texts Millard: "I gotta do something. Or else I'm screwed."

If you remove some of the noise, the ruthless sinister progression emerges. MOO

May 4 2:24 pm Millard texts Michalski: "If you could keep me updated on where Laura goes out to, that'd be of use to me."
May 4 - Millard texts Smich: "let's get to work, got some empires to build."
May 16 10:53 am Millard texts Schlatman: "Soon I'm going to want you to put together a home made incinerator."

 

[Grey-St]

Agreed! Thrill seekers moving on to the next level of ruthless thrills. MOO

From Bill's timeline


Mar 8 3:44 pm Smich texts Millard: "Did you ever hear the expression 'don't trust anybody'????"
Mar 8 3:44 pm Smich texts Millard: "They took out the last part of the sentence: 'Except for me'!!!"
Mar 8 3:44 pm Smich texts Millard: "Lol."
Mar 8 3:46 pm Millard texts Smich: "Yes, they took that part out."
Mar 8 3:47 pm Smich texts Millard: ""
Mar 8 3:47 pm Smich texts Millard: "I love you my ."
Mar 8 3:47 pm Millard texts Smich: "Much love cracker."
Mar 8 5:14 pm Millard texts Smich: "How ruthless are you willing to be to make $$?"
Mar 8 5:16 pm Millard texts Smich: "I have some ideas, but it's next level stuff. We'll talk about this weekend. I know you need income."
Mar 8 5:21 pm Smich texts Millard: "I gotta do something. Or else I'm screwed."

*sigh* To be a fly on the wall at the titty bar...