CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 1

[cloudajo]

4. Yes, she came every other Monday I think. Bob had told me when we last talked he was having the house cleaned up for Fontelle for when she gets back. He was also having some work done he had been meaning to get around to.

5. I am sure they were. Julie was the closest to Bob of the three daughters.

Thanks. So if the housekeeper came every other Monday, I wonder if she was not originally scheduled to come Monday, July 27th, but Bob called her and told her to come since Fontelle was arriving back that Wednesday. If the SIL didn't know she was coming, he could have thought nobody would be around when he went back to do a final check (I'm just speculating here). As it is, if he left at 2:40 and got back at 3:30, and the housekeeper had been waiting there for a time (rumor it was for 30 minutes), that doesn't leave very much time for someone to go to Bob's and lure him away or do something to him at the house and remove him.

I know you said he was a good man, but sometimes "good" people do "bad" things for one reason or another, and there was a lot of stuff going on with the family.


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• The day he disappeared, Bob was preparing for Fontelle's arrival. He asked his housekeeper to stop by because he wanted the house clean for his new wife, police say.
  [*]Michaels said he returned to the house after 3 p.m. to find the Harrods' longtime maid sitting on the front stoop, saying the door was locked. Bob Harrod talked to the housekeeper on the phone earlier that morning and told her to come.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,7717364,full.story

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html

 

[CA Exile]

Angelo wins the prize. She hit the nail on the head! That is where I am going to start, with Bob and Fontelle. This is what Bob told me. It may differ from what you read in the paper a little. You will see why when you read it.

Bob knew Fontelle back in MO. He was going into the marines and being shipped out to CA. Before he left, he gave Fontelle a ring. I was what some people call a "promise ring". He told Fontelle that if the strain of having a long distance relationship would be too much for her, he would understand. Therefore, he would leave it up to her how the relationship would turn out.
He stayed in Pasadena at Georgia's house. I do not remember how he knew the family, but he did. Apparently someone in the house, don't know if it was a father or brother, wanted Bob and Georgia to get together. Bob never received any of the letters Fontelle had sent him. They were either returned or destroyed or whatever. Bob had thought Fontelle had given up on him.
Meanwhile, Bob got to know Georgia and fell in love with her. They got married, had kids, jobs, mortgages, etc. Fontelle had become a distant memory for him. He went on with his life. At the same time, Fontelle believed the same about Bob. She married, had kids, etc. She went on with her life.
Fast forward to 2009. One day, Fontelle's daughter was messing around on the internet. She asked Fontelle if there was anyone she wanted to look up. She thought about it and said Bob Harrod. She found a Bob Harrod in CA. Fontelle wondered if that was him. Her daughter dialed the number and handed Fontelle the phone. Before Fontelle could do anything, Bob answered.
It turned out they were both widower/widow. They still remembered each other. They talked for hours. She and Bob talked every day for over an hour at a time. Bob invited her out to CA to visit. She agreed.
That was about the time Bob started telling me about her. I was very happy for him. After all those years of taking care of Georgia and their dog, I thought he deserved some companionship. It was especially good that it was someone he already knew. He told me he was worried about what she would expect when she saw him. He was not 20 years old any more. I told him she was not a teenager any more, either. She probably does not expect anything and will be happy with you no matter what. I was right.
I was out of town when she came out. We were in the middle of moving to VA. We had gone there to find a house. When I got back, it was the day before our next lodge meeting. I called and asked if he would go with me. He said he was going to spend the evening with Fontelle. I teased him that he had let a woman come between us. He laughed. He said not only that, he married her. I said, "You old dog!" He had asked her what it would take for her to move out to CA and spend what time they had left together. She replied,"marriage". He agreed and they went and got married. The paper and tv came out and did stories about them.
She needed to go back to MO and get her things and take care of her house and other business. She was coming back on July 29. Meanwhile, Bob was like a teenager, again. I had never seen him so lively. He seemed to be walking on air. It was amazing.
Later he would tell me he had started going back to the doctor. He had neglected his own health for the past several years while taking care of Georgia. He said he wanted to get at least 20 more years with Fontelle. His goal was to live to be 100. I am just sorry he did not make it.

If there are some holes, I am sorry. I am writing this from memory. If you have any more questions, ask away. I will try to answer.

 

[ShowMe]

CA Exile, Thanks for the story.

I would like to know more about the barber and why you didn't see eye to eye with Bob about their relationship. Could you please describe that relationship and what her contact with Fontelle was.

 

[suzyq211]

<snipped>
And now, according to CA Exile in a previous post, Bob had helped support at least 2 of the daughters and had given them money when in need.

Hmm, doesnt sound like a stingy, tightfisted man to me!

 

[CA Exile]

Yes, ShowMe, she was next on the list.

She was Georgia's hairdresser after they moved to Placentia. When Georgia became too ill to go to her salon, she would come to the house and do Georgia's hair. She was also at Georgia's memorial.

I did not actually meet her until after Georgia's death. She would still come over to Bob's house frequently. Bob was mostly bald and did not need his hair cut that much. I knew something had to be going on. I do not know what or how far it went. We rarely talked about her.
When I met her was when she was having trouble with her truck. Bob asked me if I would take a look at it. I was glad to. We went over to her shop. She told me she had been to a dealership and they diagnosed it and gave her an estimate. I took a look at it and offered her to go to my mechanic for a second opinion. It was less than a quarter mile from her shop. I called my mechanic and told him the whole story. He said he would be glad to take a look. She gave me a free haircut. I needed one anyway. Bob and I left. She never took it. She just wanted to hear what she wanted to hear. So she went and had it fixed. I later heard Bob had paid for it.
I have this curse or blessing depending on how you look at it. I am a good judge of character. Unfortunately, it is bad character. Some people just give me a bad feeling. Most of the time, when I tell someone I am dismissed as being negative. The curse comes in where I am right 99.9999% of the time. When everyone else finds out it is too late. Someone has already been taken advantage of or hurt. Generally, I do not tell anyone anymore except my wife.
With this lady, it was pegged all the way. She sent off bad vibes all around. She seemed very strange to me. I told Bob how I felt. I told him I figured he was giving her money. Only later did I find out it was a lot of money. I told him," I am not you son or grandson. I am your friend. So, I can say this. I do not mean to tell you what to do with your time or money. You earned it so you can give it to whoever you want to. But, I do not like her and I think she is taking advantage of you. I have a really bad feeling about her." He quietly thanked me for my opinion. After that we agreed to disagree and did not talk about her any more. This happened all before Fontelle came into the picture.
When Fontelle came out to visit Bob, she met the hairdresser. She and Fontelle got into a shouting match. Apparently Fontelle spelled the end of the gravy train for her. I would later found out Bob was giving her money as late as early July, after he married Fontelle.
When Bob disappeared, she became my first suspect. I believed she was crazy enough to do it. My theory was she or someone she knew had been watching the house. When they saw Jeff leave, she knew Bob would be alone. They could easily lure him out into a car and drive off. Bob apparently liked and trusted her. Then, take him out to the desert and make him disappear. When Fontelle moved back permanently, I do not think she would allow Bob to be married to her and carry on with this woman. Since then, she has been "cleared" by the Placentia PD. For all that is worth. She and Fontelle have become "friends". I do not like it, but there is nothing I can do about it. Fontelle knows how I feel. The choice is hers to make. THIS IS MY OPINION. I HAVE NO FACTS TO BACK THIS UP. I CAN NOT PROVE ANY OF IT. My second idea will come later.

 

[cloudajo]

It’s my understanding from reading that in CA, a person is presumed dead if not seen or heard from for a continuous period of 5 years. An exception to this period of time might be made by the court if the person was exposed to “imminent peril” and fail to return, like a plane crash (e.g. Steve Fossett, the multimillionaire adventurer, was declared legally dead in Illinois five months after his disappearance while flying over the Nevada desert). A person would petition the court to declare a missing person dead, and the petitioner has the burden of producing evidence to show this presumption. Also that they took the appropriate steps to locate the missing person, e.g. engaging the services of an investigator…

Does anyone know if this is correct then?

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California Evidence Code Section 667
667. A person not heard from in five years is presumed to be dead.
California Probate Code Sections 12401, 12402, 12406
12401. In proceedings under this part, a person who has not been seen or heard from for a continuous period of five years by those who are likely to have seen or heard from that person, and whose absence is not satisfactorily explained after diligent search or inquiry, is presumed to be dead. The person's death is presumed to have occurred at the end of the period unless there is sufficient evidence to establish that death occurred earlier.
12402. Subject to the provisions of this part, the estate of a missing person may be administered in the manner provided generally for the administration of estates of deceased persons.
12406. (a) At the hearing, the court shall determine whether the alleged missing person is a person who is presumed to be dead under Section 12401. The court may receive evidence and consider the affidavits and depositions of persons likely to have seen or heard from or know the whereabouts of the alleged missing person. (b) If the court is not satisfied that a diligent search or inquiry has been made for the missing person, the court may order the petitioner to conduct a diligent search or inquiry and to report the results. The court may order the search or inquiry to be made in any manner that the court determines to be advisable, including any or all of the following methods: (1) Inserting in one or more suitable newspapers or other periodicals a notice requesting information from any person having knowledge of the whereabouts of the missing person. (2) Notifying law enforcement officials and public welfare agencies in appropriate locations of the disappearance of the missing person. (3) Engaging the services of an investigator. (c) The costs of a search ordered by the court pursuant to subdivision (b) shall be paid by the estate of the missing person, but if there is no administration, the court in its discretion may order the petitioner to pay the costs.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=evid&group=00001-01000&file=660-670
http://law.justia.com/california/codes/prob/12400-12408.html
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2253/what-happens-when-someone-legally-dead-shows-up-alive
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1578874/Missing-millionaire-Steve-Fossett-declared-dead.html
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[Fairy1]

I've always suspected the hairdresser - even after she was "cleared." But I always wondered what the motive would be as Bob is no good to her unless he's alive to write checks!

Now she's cozied up to Fontelle, huh? That's creepy.

 

[CA Exile]

I guess if she could not have him, no one would. She just struck me as unstable and I told everyone who asked about that. But, that does not mean she had anything to do with it. Everyone keeps telling me she is in the clear.

 

[Fairy1]

I guess if she could not have him, no one would. She just struck me as unstable and I told everyone who asked about that. But, that does not mean she had anything to do with it. Everyone keeps telling me she is in the clear.

So are you saying you believe she wanted Bob and not just his money? I thought she was married.

I just wonder if LE looked at all of her friends when they looked at her. She could easily have paid someone else.

 

[ShowMe]

<snipped>
And now, according to CA Exile in a previous post, Bob had helped support at least 2 of the daughters and had given them money when in need.

Hmm, doesnt sound like a stingy, tightfisted man to me!

Thinking out loud:
If,as Exile says, Bob supported two of his daughters,
which two daughters and why would they deliberately cut off their cash cow? If he is murdered by them, they get nothing. If the trust is tied up, they get zip for a long long time. In conservatorship, I believe courts dictate and review or supervise periodic reports of the flow of money, so they would be caught. Either way, they loose. Was Bob really supporting his adult daughters or just helping them? Surely the police have access to all of the financial information to back up such claims he made to Exile.
Blood is thicker than water and many families are known to help each other out from time to time, while some families end up supporting their ageing parents too, so I don't see this as odd at all. So much of what Exile is writing was already written about but deleted. Were the deleted posts disparaging or honest, about the man only they knew best. This is what I mean when I think of newly surfacing questions after reading his posts.

IMHO: Exile's posts change my opinion of everything that has been said, posted, and published to date.
Having his shared insight, I do not believe the daughters hurt their father or lied about the character of their father. There may be much more that they did not say.
I do not believe Fontelle had a hand in his disappearance either, eventhough objecting in court to what was written before her, without having contributed a dime. Though suspicious, I don't see her hurting the man she fantasized about since pre-teen days.

I highly suspect any perifially connected persons who might not have been knowledgeable of laws of probate, which differs from state to state.
It has been said that the barber borrowed money from Bob. I assume she might not have expected to ever repay, but Exile can enlighten us best about this character and why he felt differently about her than Bob. Was it that after marriage, Bob requested repayment of the loans and angered her enough to take action? If polygraphed, people pass polygraphs all the time, some who are later proven pathological liars. This method is not proven to be completely dependable technology.

Why do Fontelle's family not bring her back to living with them? That is curious to me. If she had her own money, why would she want to stay so far away from her family?

Every family has its own internal dynamics and it is difficult to get enough fact from newspapers to satisfactorily answer these types of questions for me, so the questions continue to hover about unanswered and the posts I read have become stale and very repetitive.
I have renewed hope that Ca Exile can contribute some additional insight, not about the fairy tale but about reality and the cast of characters he seems to know something about.
Meanwhile, Bob is missing and I pray the police are doing all in their power to thoroughly investigate and find him, bring him home, so he can answer the questions that no one else is able or willing to answer.
Any new newspaper articles without current police input falls flat intellectually.

 

[Fairy1]

CA Exile - you mentioned Julie and Jeff's son moved into the neighborhood at some point. Did he have a good relationship with Bob? Was he helpful to Bob around the house?

 

[CA Exile]

Bob and his grandson were very close. He is a good guy as well. He is also a member of the lodge. I am sure he joined because of Bob. He has a wife and kids as well. I believe Bob had a big hand in him getting the financing to buy his house. I like him. I do not know him that well. He works a lot in computers. He travels for work a lot as well.

Fontelle is a very intelligent and headstrong woman. She married Bob. She feels as his widow, she is entitled to the house and its furnishings. If she were to go back to MO, the daughters would clean that house out. She would not get anything. After 59 years meeting the man you plan to spend the rest of your life with, would you go back across the country and pretend it all did not happen? I wouldn't. Plus, I do not think her family can "make" her do anything. She is there more on principle than anything.

At the point of his disappearance, Fontelle had little to gain. Bob had already said he was going to put everything in both their names and add her to his stuff when she returned from MO to CA. Yes, he told me that. Why in the world would she have anything to do with his disappearance before he did all that. If she was going to do anything, would it not be after all the papers were signed and she would legally be entitled to it. That would just be dumb. Fontelle is NOT a dumb lady. You see what she is going through now.

The hairdresser had no intention of paying Bob back. He was 80 years old. She figured he would at least pass on before anyone asked about the money. And since there were no signed papers, what could they do?

Keep them coming.

 

[suzyq211]

Hi Paul.

Do you know what kind of vehicle the SIL drove, and what his occupation was?

 

[CA Exile]

Last I saw, They had a Mercedes SUV and a Honda pickup. I do not remember what Jeff did, to be honest. Julie worked in the medical field. I do not know if she still worked after they moved or not.

 

[Cubby]

mod note:

I'm going to open a new thread for Bobs case in a few minutes.... So hang on or finish any posts here so when the thread is closed after the new one is opened no one loses any posts.

bbs

 

[Cubby]

Thread #2 for Bobs case has been opened.

Please continue here:

CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - Part 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community