CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[zwiebel]

Originally posted by Cubby

"We don't know if JeM had a key or if perhaps he left the back door unlocked"

respectfully snipped).
Do you have any idea if that would be normal for that area? I live in a tiny village and that would not be unusual here, but I have only secondhand knowledge from Mr Zwiebel about this area.
Very sorry if your quote comes out wrong Cubby, my computer doesn't seem to work with the automated option.

 

[GrainneDhu]

GrainneDhu, your Grandmother was a brave and generous person, I think.
To simply replace a toilet, sink or tank should not take more than half a day, even taking it easy. Of course if the pipework had problems too that all goes out of the window. You could work all day and still have to return for final fittings. Bathroom could not be used then though so still scratching my head how anyone could walk away from the job.

My grandmother knew my grandfather and said "well, he won't know how to look after himself and here's Anne, a widow for nearly five years, who needs someone to look after." In her mind, it was practical and made two people she loved dearly happy. They married 10 months after my grandmother died and were very happy. Our family was happy because it was clear that they needed each other.

So, the bathroom project I'm thinking of would be where there was no problem with the pipes or anything like that but the sink or toilet itself had been cracked or broken by a heavy weight falling against or on it.

Am I understanding you correctly that such a job would only take about half a day? Just pick up a fitting of the correct size, maybe at a big box hardware store and then put it in place?

 

[neesaki]

I have just recently started reading up on this case, some of the MSM reports and on the threads as well, so apologize for my lack of knowledge as I am still not up to speed.

My thought / question though is regarding this hairdresser: I realize that LE has stated she has been cleared. But am I the only one who finds this person to be somewhat suspicious? Also, is it known if she had a boyfriend?

Do we know if Mr. Harrod had a safe in his home where he kept valuables, cash, etc.? And if so, was it found to be empty or was his stash, if he had one, still there?

As for the local LE, are they really that incompetent (and I know some who really are), or could it be possible that LE is stating that certain people have been cleared, such as the hairdresser, even if they really consider them POI in the case. That is, in order to protect the investigation.

Am enjoying reading the threads, having to scan through some of the information, but am trying to catch up, but they are quite long, lol. Interesting and very sad case, this one, and thanks to anyone who can help out with my questions.

 

[zwiebel]

Originally posted by GrainneDhu

So, the bathroom project I'm thinking of would be there was no problem with the pipes or anything like that but the sink or toilet itself had been cracked or broken by a heavy weight falling against or on it.

So glad your grandfather found happiness and your family were happy too. It is wonderful when it works, isn't it?
As for the bathroom fittings, the only times I've had ceramics break on me is heavy tools being dropped in the tub and basin (twice) and Mr Zweibel once taking a tumble (he's a pretty tall and pretty clumsy guy) and landing with his full weight on top of the basin. Pulled the entire thing clear of the wall and took a few tiles with it. That took a lot of fixing and running around trying to buy tiles that matched and a basin with plumbing that lined up with old one.

 

[zwiebel]

neesaki, I don't know for certain but just going on my experience with older members of my family, Mr Harrod would have liked to have some cash around. And valuables that he might not even have realized were valuable. Also, sadly, I can imagine a stranger taking advantage of an elderly person and an unlocked door and stealing those items. What I just cannot imagine is any reason on earth why that intruder would take Mr Harrod along with the valuables......

 

[believe09]

Thanks for coming onto the thread neesaki. Why would LE state that BL was cleared if she wasnt and yet not mention anything regarding the family I wonder? I am trying to make sense of that strategy from an LE perspective. Better off saying everyone has been cleared or no one I suppose.

Would your guess be that family then has been cleared if BL and her family are the only one's mentioned?

What makes her suspicious in your mind?

 

[believe09]

neesaki, I don't know for certain but just going on my experience with older members of my family, Mr Harrod would have liked to have some cash around. And valuables that he might not even have realized were valuable. Also, sadly, I can imagine a stranger taking advantage of an elderly person and an unlocked door and stealing those items. What I just cannot imagine is any reason on earth why that intruder would take Mr Harrod along with the valuables......

LE has stated that they do not believe a stranger is involved in this disappearance. They released a statement clearing BL and her family...I guess I just assumed their whereabouts must have been completely and fully documented. To my recollection, she and her family were the only non family members associated with Mr Harrod, either by family members (posts on the www) or law enforcement who took the unusual step of stating that they had no role.

If there were no strangers involved and BL is cleared, I would think that the choices are pretty limited.

You know what confuses me to a degree? Any discounting of the fact that the night before Bob's disappearance he was engaged in a heated exchange with his family about his estate. One subject specifically mentioned by PPD PIO in MSM was that he intended to add his wife to his estate planning.

And then poof he disappears the next day on the watch of his SIL-was SIL at the contentious family meeting?

I mean, not just the next day, but the next morning.

 

[zwiebel]

believe09, that's a timeline even I can understand.

 

[Cubby]

Originally posted by Cubby respectfully snipped).
Do you have any idea if that would be normal for that area? I live in a tiny village and that would not be unusual here, but I have only secondhand knowledge from Mr Zwiebel about this area.
Very sorry if your quote comes out wrong Cubby, my computer doesn't seem to work with the automated option.

I don't live in Mr. Harrod's neighborhood, so I don't know if he would leave the door unlocked or not. Nor do I know if it is normal for the residents in his neighborhood to leave doors unlocked or not.

No worries about the quote.

FWIW, we don't know who locked the front door. Was it Bob or the SIL?

 

[Cubby]

The timeline changes from 11am to 1:30pm. Strange.

Quote:
Harrod was last seen by his son-in-law, Jeff Michaels, around 1:30 p.m. on Monday. Harrod, a former contract manager, sent Michaels to Home Depot, but when Michaels returned, Harrod was no longer in the house, said Loomis.

"His receipt showed that he paid for his items after 3 p.m.," Loomis said. "He thinks he was at Home Depot for 45 minutes to an hour, so given 15 minutes or so of driving time, you're looking at 1:30."

Later the timeline changes to JeM leaving for the Home Depot between 2:30 and 2:40.

Quote:
"Loomis said police will start looking today at surveillance tapes "to see if people close to him were where they said they were."


I wonder what the surveillance tapes showed. Did JeM spend only a few minutes at the Home Depot? Just enough time to get a receipt?

http://www.ocregister.com/news/harro...is-family.html
__________________

BEBM. Maybe after reviewing surveillance LE determined the hair dresser was where she said she was and the son in law was not.

 

[believe09]

I don't live in Mr. Harrod's neighborhood, so I don't know if he would leave the door unlocked or not. Nor do I know if it is normal for the residents in his neighborhood to leave doors unlocked or not.

No worries about the quote.

FWIW, we don't know who locked the front door. Was it Bob or the SIL?

Good point.

 

[believe09]

believe09, that's a timeline even I can understand.

Regardless of which side of this case you land on, zwiebel, I really like your posting style...it makes me wonder if you are a writer. (forgive the personal remark please...I hope it doesnt offend.) :blushing:

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, believe 09, I used to be a writer before a certain person managed to get me moving houses and countries every two years, and always into houses falling down around my ears and hundreds of years old (remind me and I'll tell you my scarey cellar stories sometime).
But you have me spot on with just a few posts and so wherever you lead on this case from now on, I'm gonna follow!

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have just recently started reading up on this case, some of the MSM reports and on the threads as well, so apologize for my lack of knowledge as I am still not up to speed.

My thought / question though is regarding this hairdresser: I realize that LE has stated she has been cleared. But am I the only one who finds this person to be somewhat suspicious? Also, is it known if she had a boyfriend?

SBM

Knowing that she started making home visits to do Georgia Harrod's hair before she died, I don't find either the person or the relationship suspicious.

My father is within a week of the same age that Bob would be (sadly, I don't think Bob has been celebrating any birthdays since he disappeared). I've seen how attached my parents were to their long time cleaning lady. When she had to quit due to arthritis (they'd basically grown old together, she was only about 15 years younger than they were), they gave her a huge bonus. One thousand dollars for each year she'd cleaned their house. Since she'd been doing it for over 30 years, that was quite a bonus.

It isn't hard to imagine that Bob's contacts with her were more pleasant than his contacts with his daughters.

My memory is terrible but I think I recall that the BL is married and that both she and her husband had been cleared by the PPD.

When the co-conservators took her to court, the judge ruled that they had not succeeded in proving a single element against her and he ordered them to pay her legal fees (which is quite a rebuke from a judge).

 

[GrainneDhu]

Originally posted by GrainneDhu

So glad your grandfather found happiness and your family were happy too. It is wonderful when it works, isn't it?
As for the bathroom fittings, the only times I've had ceramics break on me is heavy tools being dropped in the tub and basin (twice) and Mr Zweibel once taking a tumble (he's a pretty tall and pretty clumsy guy) and landing with his full weight on top of the basin. Pulled the entire thing clear of the wall and took a few tiles with it. That took a lot of fixing and running around trying to buy tiles that matched and a basin with plumbing that lined up with old one.

So a physically cracked or broken sink could take anywhere from 4 hours to several days to replace and finish up.

Good to know because never having done any bathroom remodelling, I had assumed it would take quite a long time to replace, say, a toilet tank. But if things happened to just break the fixture and not any of the wall or tiling, it sounds like it would just be a matter or removing the old, cracked or broken one and putting a new one of the proper size in place.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I don't live in Mr. Harrod's neighborhood, so I don't know if he would leave the door unlocked or not. Nor do I know if it is normal for the residents in his neighborhood to leave doors unlocked or not.

No worries about the quote.

FWIW, we don't know who locked the front door. Was it Bob or the SIL?

Cubby, you have quite a record in these threads for Bob of making a chill run down my back.

Makes all the sense in the world that JeM was the one who locked the door but I'd never thought of it.

 

[believe09]

Oh, believe 09, I used to be a writer before a certain person managed to get me moving houses and countries every two years, and always into houses falling down around my ears and hundreds of years old (remind me and I'll tell you my scarey cellar stories sometime).
But you have me spot on with just a few posts and so wherever you lead on this case from now on, I'm gonna follow!

Yikes the pressure!!

I am all about scary cellar stories, and I love houses that are hundreds of years old. I have had my fill of new construction cookie cutter, lol.

It is lovely to have Bob's case get some new eyes. Be forewarned, we have sleuthers here who have their fingers on every facet, every link...they are amazing. Bob has some serious advocates. At the end of the day it is all about him.

 

[shana]

Apart from the re-enactment seen on the clip of the "Disappeared" preview, is there any other source (preferably verifiable) which states that JeM was repairing Mr. Harrod's toilet?

As a homeowner in SoCA much like Mr. Harrod, I have repaired or have had repaired several toilets over the years. I know, as I suspect he did too, when to call the plumber.

One would typically NOT haul a new heavy porcelain fixture up the stairs to replace a broken one. As well, the local home improvement stores are not likely to have in-stock at any given day a replacement toilet of the proper specs let alone design (perhaps color too, if relevant).

IF JeM had been doing minor plumbing repairs, my first thought would be a leak or a running faucet/toilet, all of which can be easily remedied by a DIY person if so inclined.

Think "small projects" as has been suggested here. A new toilet is a bigger project. Even re-seating one with a broken seal is not a typical homeowner fix.

Also to add: This was not the only bathroom available for use in the home (for those pondering why JeM would leave the task unfinished overnight, if he did).

~jmo~

 

[cloudajo]

According to daughter RB, JeM helped Bob and Georgia with handyman work for >30 years. And daughter JuM posted on her community forum several times about the renovations JeM had done on their house. So JeM had experience.

Good question on whether it was a job well done. Was it?

Interesting that over 1 year after Bob disappeared, RB said she still didn’t know what repairs JeM performed.

---------------------
August 28, 2010: My BIL has ALWAYS helped Mom and Dad throughout the last 30 plus years with handyman work. It has always been that way.

August 29, 2010: I don't know exactly what repairs my BIL had performed but knew he intended to return the next day to finish them up as the police had the note he left for Dad on the kitchen counter.

 

[shana]

Thanks for the input, cloudajo!

Like you, I've also read that JeM was helpful for many years with home repairs to his PIL. Good on him!

I would not think that such experience would include a 2-man job (hauling a heavy plumbing fixture upstairs), and so my questions above still stand.

And IF he had been doing handyman work for 30+ yrs as you say, how would RB know his Punch List for that one particular day?

I would guess that over the 3 decades, JeM's work had been at least satisfactory; otherwise, Mr. Harrod would not have asked him again and again. Based on their history, I don't see a valid reason to question the quality of his work on that particular day. Heck, I don't even know why this is a question for us to wonder about!

~jmo~