CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[cloudajo]

Just a collection of some info...

• Bob said he had no plans to go anywhere that day. He was left home alone for a short period during a trip to the store for some parts, just before the housekeeper was due. She got no answer at the door, when she arrived. (August 2, 2009 – Daughter RB)
• And he said that will be fine, I will be here, and Jeff is coming and he’s gonna to take care of a couple of things in the house before Fontelle comes. (April, 2012 – Agnes on Disappeared)
• Bob always was home when I went over there, or if, him and Georgia, they would always always tell me if they would not be home, and they put a key in the mailbox. But it was a very rare occasion that they were not home. (April, 2012 – Agnes on Disappeared)
• He walked very slow. He would walk around the neighborhood a couple of times a day and then once after about ten or so at night. (July 26, 2010 – Friend PE)
• There was a report that my BIL saw the type of car that the POI drives go by my Dad's house very slowly and then pull over on the wrong side of the street. (August 11, 2009 – Daughter PB)
• Heard from BIL that a car matching the description of hers was seen earlier that morning. (August 12, 2009 – Daughter PB)
• Fontelle said Jeffrey saw a black Chevrolet Tahoe drive slowly past 522 Carnation a few times over a 10 minute period. She said nobody saw Robert leave his home at 522 Carnation, but they suspect he got into the black Tahoe and left the area. (July 28, 2009; Time of Report 0022 - Missing Person Report)
• I told him right away that, you know, that where Bob is, because he’s not answering the door. And Jeff was just asking me, “Are you supposed to be here today?” I said, “Yeah, Bob knew that I’m coming today.” (April, 2012 – Agnes on Disappeared)
• Michaels told police he thought Bob Harrod may have retired for a nap, and said he let himself and the maid in the back door. (October 8, 2009 – OC Register)
• Bob had left the house, but his car is still in the driveway. It was assumed he probably went for a walk as he was known to do. Bob never returned. (August 2, 2009 – Daughter RB)
• Michaels told the housekeeper his father-in-law might have gone to visit a neighbor, police say. (February 2, 2010 – LA Times)

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/02/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03/2
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5447341&postcount=60

 

[believe09]

Just a collection of some info...

• Bob said he had no plans to go anywhere that day. He was left home alone for a short period during a trip to the store for some parts, just before the housekeeper was due. She got no answer at the door, when she arrived. (August 2, 2009 – Daughter RB)
• And he said that will be fine, I will be here, and Jeff is coming and he’s gonna to take care of a couple of things in the house before Fontelle comes. (April, 2012 – Agnes on Disappeared)
• Bob always was home when I went over there, or if, him and Georgia, they would always always tell me if they would not be home, and they put a key in the mailbox. But it was a very rare occasion that they were not home. (April, 2012 – Agnes on Disappeared)
• He walked very slow. He would walk around the neighborhood a couple of times a day and then once after about ten or so at night. (July 26, 2010 – Friend PE)
• There was a report that my BIL saw the type of car that the POI drives go by my Dad's house very slowly and then pull over on the wrong side of the street. (August 11, 2009 – Daughter PB)
• Heard from BIL that a car matching the description of hers was seen earlier that morning. (August 12, 2009 – Daughter PB)
• Fontelle said Jeffrey saw a black Chevrolet Tahoe drive slowly past 522 Carnation a few times over a 10 minute period. She said nobody saw Robert leave his home at 522 Carnation, but they suspect he got into the black Tahoe and left the area. (July 28, 2009; Time of Report 0022 - Missing Person Report)
• I told him right away that, you know, that where Bob is, because he’s not answering the door. And Jeff was just asking me, “Are you supposed to be here today?” I said, “Yeah, Bob knew that I’m coming today.” (April, 2012 – Agnes on Disappeared)
• Michaels told police he thought Bob Harrod may have retired for a nap, and said he let himself and the maid in the back door. (October 8, 2009 – OC Register)
• Bob had left the house, but his car is still in the driveway. It was assumed he probably went for a walk as he was known to do. Bob never returned. (August 2, 2009 – Daughter RB)
• Michaels told the housekeeper his father-in-law might have gone to visit a neighbor, police say. (February 2, 2010 – LA Times)

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/02/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03/2
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5447341&postcount=60

What parts? Is that a question she didnt ask either?

 

[believe09]

Thank you for this, Cloudajo-you are quite amazing.

 

[believe09]

If we, from a distance, seem unsure about the description information given to LE by the people on the ground who last saw him standing in front of him, I think we have to go back to the unmade bed and what Bob might have been wearing (and why) when JeM arrived.

So if searchers or hikers are out and about, there is little chance of spotting a hat, keys, a wallet, glasses etc if they werent with him.

Let's run for a moment with the possibility that Bob was in some kind of nightwear or leisure wear that maybe didnt contain pockets-I wonder what a 3 year exposure to the elements might have done to them? And what if searchers should be looking for slippers not shoes??

 

[zwiebel]

I'm sure LE has a call log.
I was kind of wondering two other things, just to pry into that post a little more. The physical location of phone(s) in the Harrod residence- cause I kind of want to know where it/they could be heard ringing from and answered in time before a call went to VM or an answering machine- and also, if any incoming calls were from different providers than the Harrod's home phone, kwim?

As for Mr. Harrod's present location- I agree (minus the three+ year time factor which could allow for a lot of movement.) And sadly, it doesn't even typically matter if one is or is not in the habit of killing someone- they're usually dumped close to the origination of their last seen location.

Thing is with Mr. Harrod...I don't think many of us trust the veracity or honesty of the last seen report. Phone call, maybe. But not last seen.

I was thinking Bob might also have had a phone in his bedroom, bearing in mind his first wife had a long period of illness and may have been confined to bed. I suppose it is possible there was just one if it was cordless, but even then, if it was left upstairs with Georgia, Bob would have had to rush upstairs if the call was for him. I'm going for at least two.

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you for this, Cloudajo-you are quite amazing.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[zwiebel]

What parts? Is that a question she didnt ask either?

Ah. It would be nice to know which parts but I am so glad you pointed that out because parts are good enough for me. Parts are not tools - they're replacements for something old/broken. So there was waste to dispose of after all.

 

[zwiebel]

Apologies in advance for boring everyone about repairs again. My only excuse is, as believe09 pointed out, the devil is in the details.*

It's not scientific but I do feel the CL is honest, straightforward, had absolutely nothing to do with Bob's disappearance and would have had been pretty familiar with the details of his house. So it seems reasonable to assume Disappeared may well have got the information about the toilet being replaced direct from her, or via LE. That means there WAS waste.
If there was a toilet to be disposed of, I know a bit about that (4 in the last year alone).
You do not need two people to carry one (it's a struggle but I can do it and I am very small).
They do not fit into a pocket.
They do not break that easily.
They can cause nasty little or big cuts on a person's face or hands when smashed up.
Breaking one up inside the home is really difficult - you need a hammer or you need to drop it on a hard surface, like the bathroom tiles. Either way, you make a lot of noise, a lot of mess, and probably do a bit of damage to yourself and the home in the process.

If a person wants to dispose of it correctly at an attended dump site, or they have their own container by the house, no problem - it goes in whole.

I have never and will never dump illegally (love wildlife almost as much as dogs) but I can tell you one thing; an intact toilet attracts attention. People notice and remember a toilet out of place where they might ignore say, a paint tin. I've seen passers by smile when they pass by my dumpster because there's a toilet sitting on the top. They just look comical out of place.

So if you wanted to dump a toilet illegally and didn't want it to be noticed you would have to either:
1:Smash it with a hammer and scatter it, making a lot of noise.
2ut is somewhere really remote and hidden from sight (so difficult though because as I said before, they stick out like a sore thumb and do not decompose.
3:Combine both solutions - drop it from a height (a cliff/ridge/ mountain road?) so it drops out of sight and breaks/scatters at the same time.
IMO only, when Bob's body is brought home, no such waste will be found with him. Not too far away maybe; on the way, or way back, from where his body is located. But not with him. That would be the action of a fool. I think the person who did this to Mr Harrod is many things, but not a fool.

 

[Oriah]

Thank you for this, Cloudajo-you are quite amazing.

I'm seconding Cloudajo's awesomeness.

I looked up the phone in the video. Looks like they were sold in three packs, so now forgetting about jack situation and moving on to electrical outlets lol. I'm gonna guesstimate base in kitchen with answering machine, charger and phone in living room, and third charger and phone in bedroom? Complete speculation on my part. however- if that was hypothetically the case- I wonder which phone was last answered or spoken on before Mr. Harrod disappeared.

 

[zwiebel]

I'm seconding Cloudajo's awesomeness.

I looked up the phone in the video. Looks like they were sold in three packs, so now forgetting about jack situation and moving on to electrical outlets lol. I'm gonna guesstimate base in kitchen with answering machine, charger and phone in living room, and third charger and phone in bedroom? Complete speculation on my part. however- if that was hypothetically the case- I wonder which phone was last answered or spoken on before Mr. Harrod disappeared.

Sounds good to me, I'm happy to go with that. And finally (excuse me, my natural position is five minutes behind everyone else) I think I see where you are going with this.

Is the technology available to figure which handset was answered when? I have no idea.

 

[Oriah]

Sounds good to me, I'm happy to go with that. And finally (excuse me, my natural position is five minutes behind everyone else) I think I see where you are going with this.

Is the technology available to figure which handset was answered when? I have no idea.

I don't think your natural position is five minutes behind, zweibel! Quite the opposite in fact.

Yes, cordless phones have memory (think speed dial and phone books and caller ID etc- these are all things that are stored on the phone- and often on the network) and it can be retrieved in several different ways.

Clearly I am still on my phone kick!

 

[zwiebel]

I don't think your natural position is five minutes behind, zweibel! Quite the opposite in fact.

Yes, cordless phones have memory (think speed dial and phone books and caller ID etc- these are all things that are stored on the phone- and often on the network) and it can be retrieved in several different ways.

Clearly I am still on my phone kick!

Thank you so much....trying to live up to your praise now; if this information was available it could have important implications, couldn't it? Not only when, but WHERE a call was answered?

 

[zwiebel]

Sorry, just to make sure I'm there....so a phone call at say 11.30, answered downstairs because Bob was up and about because his SIL was there working, that would seem fine. A call around 11.30, answered from the bedroom, especially the bedroom adjoining the bathroom being repaired, ummmmm? You might think that a little unusual, being as Bob found it pretty hard to get around and would probably have pretty much stayed downstairs once he was up, until it was time to go to bed?
Am I anywhere near, or have I just proved I'm ten minutes behind everyone else rather than five? Lol!

 

[Cubby]

Speculation: It's possible the toilet tank cover was used as a weapon. Or Bob was pushed into the toilet hard enough to break it............. Probably in his pajama's shortly after the SIL arrived.

I'm really anxious to see what new information is made public when the disappeared show airs.

 

[zwiebel]

Speculation: It's possible the toilet tank cover was used as a weapon. Or Bob was pushed into the toilet hard enough to break it............. Probably in his pajama's shortly after the SIL arrived.

I'm really anxious to see what new information is made public when the disappeared show airs.

Oh no Cubby, oh no. I didn't think of that, it never occurred to me. That is such a terrible, terrible picture.
I know something awful; deadly has happened to Bob. I just really, really, wish it could be some random, crazy stranger. Thinking of his terror is bad enough, thinking of his terror and the utter betrayal he would have felt at the same time is so horrible. And I know how those things break. I know how heavy they are. I don't know how anyone could do that and carry on with any sort of life worth living after. You would have to go at least a little mad because nearly all your humanity would be lost in an act like that.

 

[Angelo]

Speculation: It's possible the toilet tank cover was used as a weapon. Or Bob was pushed into the toilet hard enough to break it............. Probably in his pajama's shortly after the SIL arrived.

I'm really anxious to see what new information is made public when the disappeared show airs.

I agree and now the "signs of a struggle" are masquerading as "home repairs"!

 

[zwiebel]

I agree and now the "signs of a struggle" are masquerading as "home repairs"!

Oriah was really nice about me but she was wrong you know, because I wasn't here yet - not with toilet parts, not like that. There would just have to have been so much blood. Those ceramics can cut like glass you know, just when you are breaking them....if you were hit on the head.....
If LE suspected this at the time, they should have done forensics. They would have found something.

 

[believe09]

I agree that forensics would have shown something, and may have. OC Sheriff's CSI processed the house, a second look undoubtedly-wasnt that in 2011 folks? We are talking state of the art, sophisticated well financed OC Sheriff's CSI. There is something there, I feel quite sure. We were positive at the time of the visit. Actually it was a local neighbor who tipped us off, if I recall correctly. One of Bob's neighbors, I mean. In any case, in spite of the house being in the hands of family until Fontelle returned, I am sure they got what they expected from the house.

 

[Cubby]

Personally, I suspect Bob was pushed hard and landed on the toilet breaking it. Possibly cracking the toilet so it leaked and needed replacing, but not necessarily shattering the toilet into pieces.

I think this occured while Bob was getting ready for his day, after speaking with the CL about 10.

I also suspect the SIL used a wheel barrel to get Bob out the back and around the side of the home closest to the garage and then into the truck. After bringing Bob and whatever materials he disposed of, he arrived back to fix the materials he broke to find the CL waiting......

That, imo, is why he was questioning the CL if she was supposed to be there. Having a witness placing him at his FIL's, he knew he needed a receipt so made the trip to HD obtaining the 3pm ish receipt.

all jmo of course.

 

[believe09]

I hate to speculate on what injuries Bob might have received-there is no question in my mind that he was terrified and likely put up a good fight. He was a Marine. He had lived a long life and seen many things. He was in full possession of his faculties, and in spite of his bad knees, I believe he likely went down swinging.

At least two people know for sure-Bob and his attacker.