CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[believe09]

Gee, you mean it's not normal for a husband to charge his wife rent? <sarcasm>

I am wracking my brain but I am fairly certain there have been posts by the sisters regarding this subject-if memory serves, one sister charged JuM and family expenses when the Michaels family fled some wildfires a few years ago.

Does anyone else remember this go round?

So maybe this is status quo for this family-they charge each other for things most families would simply consider your average every day support of one another.

 

[believe09]

30-2009-00297798-PR-TR-LJC
HARROD - TRUST - TRUST PROCEEDINGS


Hearings:

• 09/17/2012 - (P) TRIAL SETTING CONFERENCE
• 09/19/2012 - (P) TRUST PETITION
• 10/18/2012 - (P) MOTION &#8211; OTHER

Register of Actions:

• 09/12/2012 - PAYMENT RECEIVED BY FOR 68 - SUBSEQUENT PAPERS-PROBATE: MOTION, APPLICATION OR OTHER PAPER REQUIRING A HEARING AFTER THE FIRST PAPER; CERTAIN SUBSEQUENT PETITIONS, APPLICATIONS, OR OTHER OPPOSITION IN THE AMOUNT OF 60.00, TRANSACTION NUMBER 11222533 AND RECEIPT NUMBER 11046425.
• 09/12/2012 - (P) MOTION - OTHER SCHEDULED FOR 10/18/2012 AT 01:30:00 PM IN L72 AT LAMOREAUX JUSTICE CENTER.
• 09/12/2012 - MOTION - OTHER FILED BY BORCHER, PAULA S.; BRADY, ROBERTA D. ON 09/12/2012

https://ocapps.occourts.org/ProbPubv2/Home.do


NOTICE TO ATTORNEYS / PROBATE EXAMINERS NOTES
https://cfapps.occourts.org/calendars/probnotesroot/probnotesv3/30-2009-00297798-PR-TR-LJCM71526001.html

PER MINUTE ORDER DATED 7/25, REQUIRES SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT TO BE FILED.

REVIEWED DATE: 7/18/12, 9/7

REQUIRES VERIFIED SUPPLEMENT STATING THE NAME, ADDRESS, AND AGE, OR WHETHER ADULT, FOR ALL TRUST BENEFICIARIES; SUFFICIENCY OF NOTICE CANNOT BE DETERMINED WITHOUT THIS SUPPLEMENT. (CRC 7.51(D), CRC 7.902).

REQUIRES: 30-DAYS MAILED NOTICE OF HEARING AND COPY OF PETITION TO AFFECTED BENEFICIARIES (INCOME AND REMAINDER). PC 17203/17403/17454.

REQUIRES VERIFIED SUPPLEMENT WITH COPY OF SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT. IF YOU WISH THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT TO BE CONFIDENTIAL, A MOTION PER CALIFORNIA RULES OF COURT TO SEAL THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT MUST BE FILED AND RULED UPON BEFORE THE COURT RULES ON THIS PETITION.

Gitana can weigh in here but the short cut seems to be in order to keep Andrew's walkaway agreement private, they have to file it and then they have to show some CA rule that would apply to sealing the document.

Additionally, it was filed incorrectly. It has to be a motion. It also looks like all affected beneficiaries were not noticed correctly.

Again with the paperwork mistakes on the part of the co conservator attorneys.

I am telling you, these atty's seem to be taking the trust for every single dime they can. I hope that the billable hours for the mistakes are reversed and then re billed when all of the paperwork is filed properly.

 

[Cubby]

What rule would apply to keeping a document secret which could allow one of the parties to defraud investors/mortgage co's in the future? Seriously, had AH walked from a 700,000 plus debt from anyone other than his grandfather, it would have been reported to the big 3 credit agencies and he would not have qualified for the mortage he recently obtained on his current residence.

What liabilities might the co-conservators have for participating in keeping 'secret' information necessary for an investment company/investor to make an informed decision on whether or not one is credit worthy and the risk in an investment?

I really hope LE is working hard behind the scenes looking at this scenario surrounding such secrecy and possible fraud with a fine tooth comb. I don't know how it could not be considered fraudulant, but IANAL.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I am wracking my brain but I am fairly certain there have been posts by the sisters regarding this subject-if memory serves, one sister charged JuM and family expenses when the Michaels family fled some wildfires a few years ago.

Does anyone else remember this go round?

So maybe this is status quo for this family-they charge each other for things most families would simply consider your average every day support of one another.

I am... amazed.

When my niece left her mom's house in a hissy fit, I took her in and kept her for a year. With no charge. It wasn't easy for us, we're quite poor but she's my niece. To me, that is what families do for each other.

Not the Harrod sisters, apparently.

 

[Cubby]

Secret handy man jobs.
Secret time lines
Secret agreements regarding not repaying hundreds of thousands of dollars owed to Mr. Harrod by his grandson.

:censored: and why haven't any arrests been made?

:maddening: :furious:

 

[believe09]

I am... amazed.

When my niece left her mom's house in a hissy fit, I took her in and kept her for a year. With no charge. It wasn't easy for us, we're quite poor but she's my niece. To me, that is what families do for each other.

Not the Harrod sisters, apparently.

That's what families do. I suspect Bob rescued all of his family, financially and otherwise, regularly.

Maybe they just dont like each other. Given what they have sent forth into the www and the lack of action on their part to find Bob, I guess they didnt like him either.

And then there is Mrs Harrod. Moving heaven and earth. What a mess.

 

[Cubby]

:bump:

Back to page one. Still wondering when the disappeared show is scheduled to air.

 

[GrainneDhu]

That's what families do. I suspect Bob rescued all of his family, financially and otherwise, regularly.

Maybe they just dont like each other. Given what they have sent forth into the www and the lack of action on their part to find Bob, I guess they didnt like him either.

And then there is Mrs Harrod. Moving heaven and earth. What a mess.

I'm going to sound like a paranoid nutjob and I probably am one. But just in case...

I hope that Fontelle is too wary to eat any homemade treats brought to her by one of the family members as a peace making gesture.

I probably read too much history but this all reminds me of the Tudor courts of Henry VII and Henry VIII. I am reminded of Katharine of Aragon's famous advice to her daughter Mary: drink only where others have drunk and cut only where others have cut.

And the old maxim that poison tends to be a woman's weapon...

 

[believe09]

I suspect Fontelle is in good hands, but you make a prudent point. By all accounts, at least going by her testimony in the October 31 trial last year for sure, she is very sharp. She is also extremely loving and sincere if you review the media interviews. IMO.

I wonder if there has been a shift a way from the nonsense theories of who dun it by the co conservators? It makes sense to me that after all of this time of supporting some pretty indefensible theories of who took Bob, that the blame may have shifted. Common sense would demand this I would think, but who knows. *shrug*

 

[Allusonz]

Regarding the Disappeared show, once again I am going to urge caution. There have been many cases I have followed in which stories have been aired. They are not always "factually correct".

In the short clip I saw, the cleaning service stated emphatically that Bob Harrod ALWAYS made his bed. I honestly had to scratch my head on this one as there is one thing mine always do and that is change the bed sheets.

We as well know that Bob Harrod spoke to someone "outside" of the family. This means that he was up, awake, and by that time still had not made his bed by 10:00 am which I believe was the approximate time of the phone call.

This now brings into question for me whether Bob Harrod truly made his bed every morning immediately. To play devil's advocate, I actually know people that ONLY make their bed the day/s the cleaning service is suppose to come.


Maybe the fact that she came on a Monday threw Mr. Harrod off his schedule, rather than the other way around! Something here does not make sense!!

Does this not raise questions for the rest here?

 

[Allusonz]

I'm going to sound like a paranoid nutjob and I probably am one. But just in case...

I hope that Fontelle is too wary to eat any homemade treats brought to her by one of the family members as a peace making gesture.

I probably read too much history but this all reminds me of the Tudor courts of Henry VII and Henry VIII. I am reminded of Katharine of Aragon's famous advice to her daughter Mary: drink only where others have drunk and cut only where others have cut.

And the old maxim that poison tends to be a woman's weapon...

Is there any reason to assume that the "family" would poison a lady they barely knew? Fontelle had not even seen Bob in a great many years, yet they married very quickly.

If this was my father would it raise my eyebrows? You bet it would!! I would be checking into her and her family quickly. Then my questions would start as I would assume that as his wife, she would receive his pension money. When I state that NO ONE gets a free pass from me I mean it. There are some colourful individuals peripherally that I believe deserve to be scrutinized deeper.

Not only has it been alluded that AH has committed mortgage fraud, now it is being alluded that the family might poison Fontelle? I feel like I am in the Twilight zone here. You guys must be joking right? If one is not joking is there anything that someone can point me in the direction that this poisoning theory has any merit to it?

Call me confused!

 

[Allusonz]

Let's consider a few hypotheticals, maybe-

If we have someone who has owned a privately financed home that he walked away from yet still resided in mortgage payment free for two years his credit would not be affected by the default...that seems to be a given.

If we assume that this person is employed, his credit score is reasonable because he doesnt have a recent default (in spite of really having a default) and he wants to buy another home. He purchases a home and takes on a jumbo mortgage.

From this point going forward, how does this work for him? No down payment needed. It has to be some kind of collateral he has available to him. Maybe a previously owned home that is now owned by family. Maybe a document that pledges him a certain share of an estate in the future?

Cubby, would that previously owned home value or asset have to equal the amount of the new mortgage? Or come close? If it is a pledged asset kind of mortgage, that is.

We need Gitana. Maybe she has some insight here as well.

Why is it assumed that AH committed fraud to obtain his mortgage? I am honestly being serious here. His grandfather is missing which means EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE is being looked at whether one chooses to believe that or not, including the BL with the alibi as I did note that Bob Harrod had contact with at least one individual known to her. The only thing that would be accomplished by committing fraud on a new mortgage would be to land oneself in trouble with the bank, which I am not seeing any indication that this is occurring.

If one were to commit mortgage fraud that would be like saying "Here I am", "Come look at me", and is a sure way to get the attention of LE quickly so what would be the motive behind that?

There are some common types of mortgages:

1. Using 20% as a down payment;
2. FHA mortgages in which the down payment is significantly lower;
3. There is the 80, 10, 10 mortgage where the 80% is the first mortgage, 10% is a second mortgage, and 10% is the down payment.
4. There is the mortgage where 100% of the mortgage is loaned.

These are just a few and there are many more. I have not even touched on when banks offer incentives, usually in the form of a lower interest rate, to bring clientele to their bank.

I have often used combinations of the above when purchasing space for business entities. In answer to your next question of why, I do this for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it is simply the fact that I don't wish to take a huge chunk of money out of an operating cash flow. Other times, for tax reasons, it allows a greater degree of tax incentives/write-offs.

The first thing I am certain everyone will do is state "well you need 3.5% down" on an FHA loan when I know for a fact that these percentages can fluctuate. As well, it depends on which mechanisms I choose to use which will ultimately determine my "down payment". I as well broker these dealings out to make sure that I get the best possible scenerio. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of the down payment. I determine what I would like to put down then I broker it out.

I have seen nothing which would indicate that fraud has been committed by AH and these allegations are troubling to me as it appears no one is looking outside of the family when there are indeed others that should be looked at.

Once again call me confused!!

 

[Allusonz]

I believe it was back in June that documents were obtained through FOIA.

I have yet to see these documents and I must ask why?

Since I see that one of my posts dealing directly with the fact that the marital home could of possibly been part of the trust cannot be found at the moment, I am now going to go on the basis that in fact it was part of the trust until someone can show me proof otherwise.

I seriously have to ask if there is a full moon. Where are these out to lunch hypothesis coming from? Is there anything to back up these assertions?

 

[Cubby]

I think it is a fair QUESTION, and question is what it is, that anyone can walk away from a 700,000 mortgage and within a a few months turn around and get approved for another one. Please don't turn questions into accusations.

I am a formerly licensed realtor. I gave it up upon being a single parent due to the evening and weekend hours. Knowing what I know about AH's payment history, or lack of on his mortgage I would consider him unable to qualify and I would send him to a loan officer for a pre-approval expecting confirmation he did not qualify.


FHA loans are far less strict than conventional loans and in order to qualify for a FHA loan a borrower has to have 12 months clean credit. That means no late rent or mortgage payments for 12 months, no late payments of any kind for 12 months.

We know from AH's own words in his deposition stopped making mortgage payments immediately upon Mr. Harrod's disappearance. We know he had a mortgage note that was still a financial obligation until a few months prior to purchasing his current home How then did he qualify for his current mortgage?

If LE has stated the motive in this case is money, should they then not pursue this area when people other than Mr. Harrod have access to his, not their, money to investigate that avenue?

No stone left unturned. LE should explore each and every area to uncover ANY and ALL possible wrong doing in this case. Wrong doing can occur with Mr. Harrod's money now that it is no longer in his control.

 

[Allusonz]

I think it is a fair QUESTION, and question is what it is, that anyone can walk away from a 700,000 mortgage and within a a few months turn around and get approved for another one. Please don't turn questions into accusations.

I am a formerly licensed realtor. I gave it up upon being a single parent due to the evening and weekend hours. Knowing what I know about AH's payment history, or lack of on his mortgage I would consider him unable to qualify and I would send him to a loan officer for a pre-approval expecting confirmation he did not qualify.


FHA loans are far less strict than conventional loans and in order to qualify for a FHA loan a borrower has to have two years clean credit. That means no late rent or mortgage payments for two years. We know from AH's own words in his deposition he did not make mortgage and/or rent payments for the full 24 months immediately preceeding his obtaining his current mortgage. How?

Do we know he did not have a clean credit rating?

As a former real estate agent, I am sure there have been times where you have used portions of your commissions in order to "make the deal work". This is often not reflected on various documents....

Actually, I don't even have to ask, I know this has happened to me personally in deals where I refused to budge any further yet we were very close. The real estate agents on both sides made up the difference.

 

[Cubby]

The SIL and JuM previously lived in the home next door to Bob. They were well aware Tuesday was the regular standing appointment the cleaning lady had to work in Mr. Harrod's home. She was not expected Monday.

We know the SIL was in Bob's home prior to his disappearance. Perhaps an argument ensued which Mr. Harrod was unable to make his bed. After all there were some kind of repairs, which if innocent and not related to the crime of Mr. Harrod's disappearance, would not need to remain secretly hidden 3 years later.

And we only have one confirmed trip to Home Depot AFTER Bob was discovered missing. Why hasn't the sil stated where he was between 10 am and Noon'ish the day Mr. Harrod disappeared?

We have NO proof Mr. Harrod scheduled any work done in his home by his son in law. Not one shred of proof. No notes and we know from the trial minutes with the hair dresser Mr. Harrod was an avid note taker.


Personally, my belief is was Bob was going about his Monday, probably after having stayed up late the Sunday evening he argued with his family over his money. He was expecting the housekeeper but surprised by his SIL's visit. The rest is history.

I have no reason to believe disappeared will have any enormous errors. Disappeared obtains LE approval after production and prior to airing, iirc. There is no need to put out there that the entire disappeared episode is going to be a fully fictional account of the events leading up to and surrounding Mr. Harrod's disappearance, although I am sure his daughters, SIL and grandson would love for the public to believe such.

 

[Cubby]

Do we know he did not have a clean credit rating?

As a former real estate agent, I am sure there have been times where you have used portions of your commissions in order to "make the deal work". This is often not reflected on various documents....

No, I never used any of my own funding to make the deal work. That was against licensing law and I was not willing to go to prison or lose my livelyhood over making the deal work in any illegal fashion.

In fact, there was one deal I had to formally - in writing - remove myself as the buyers representation due to some very shady and illegal attempts in obtaining a mortgage commitment. It was not worth prison, hefty fines or anything of the likes for me.

 

[Cubby]

Mortgage funding requires documentation which demonstrates payment of rent or mortgage. Cancelled checks, bank statements..... paperwork. Hard copies.

hmm.

 

[Allusonz]

The SIL and JuM previously lived in the home next door to Bob. They were well aware Tuesday was the regular standing appointment the cleaning lady had to work in Mr. Harrod's home. She was not expected Monday.

We know the SIL was in Bob's home prior to his disappearance. Perhaps an argument ensued which Mr. Harrod was unable to make his bed. After all there were some kind of repairs, which if innocent and not related to the crime of Mr. Harrod's disappearance, would not need to remain secretly hidden 3 years later.

And we only have one confirmed trip to Home Depot AFTER Bob was discovered missing. Why hasn't the sil stated where he was between 10 am and Noon'ish the day Mr. Harrod disappeared.

We have NO proof Mr. Harrod scheduled any work done in his home by his son in law. Not one shred of proof. No notes and we know from the trial minutes with the hair dresser Mr. Harrod was an avid note taker.


Personally, my belief is was Bob was going about his Monday, probably after having stayed up late the Sunday evening he argued with his family over his money. He was expecting the housekeeper but surprised by his SIL's visit. The rest is history.

I have no reason to believe disappeared will have any enormous errors. Disappeared obtains LE approval after production and prior to airing, iirc. There is no need to put out there that the entire disappeared episode is going to be a fully fictional account of the events leading up to and surrounding Mr. Harrod's disappearance, although I am sure his daughters, SIL and grandson would love for the public to believe such.

My question truly was very simple.

If Bob Harrod ALWAYS made his bed immediatly, why had it not been made by 10:00 am when the phone call that is acceptable to all involved as it came from outside of the family?

 

[Cubby]

My question truly was very simple.

If Bob Harrod ALWAYS made his bed immediatly, why had it not been made by 10:00 am when the phone that is acceptable to all involved as it came from outside of the family?

Perhaps it was made and an altercation ensued on the second floor in and near the bedroom in the process of disappearing Mr. Harrod which messed up the bed after it was made earlier.

Do keep in mind daughter JUM, in her own words, stated she went to her fathers house to "change the linens" the day following his disappearance. Why was she so interested in getting those linens out of the home?

I mean, do we really believe Mr. Harrod could not afford his own linens or that his own wife would have not chosen decor for their home to her tastes?

About this time, iirc, daughter JUM was also posting about how vodka gets vomit and such out of rugs. Hmm.