CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[believe09]

Property Taxes:
Year Value Land Improvements Total Tax
2011 Assessed $186,643 + $235,516 = $422,159 $5,150

This is from Trulia. The purchase price was 719000.00

 

[believe09]

http://www.fha.com/fha_programs.cfm
This is what I found with a quick search online. These are some of the FHA grant programs.

They require the homebuyer to be a first time home buyer, low income or moderate income.

Here is where I am confused- we know AH put 14K down on the house. I see that it is possible he received that money via grant. I see that the down payment requirements for an FHA loan may be 3 percent or 2.25 percent. His down payment was less than both.

If he received down payment grants, would that mean he is a first time home buyer, low income or moderate income?

CNN Money ranked Yorba Linda in the top 100 places to live in 2012. It was ranked 42. (Go Yorba Linda!) The median income, according to their figures, $130,978.00. The average home price was $549,760.00K. (this was a reduction in the average home price from previous years...see 2010 for example.) Average property taxes 4978.00.

link here

What constitutes moderate income in Yorba Linda? Would the moderate income characterization apply nationally for an FHA loan or specifically to a certain area of the country?

If AH didnt pay his mortgage/debt on his house on Windflower, he lived rent free for two years. Wouldnt that money have been available for investment in his new home, I wonder?

Oh right he couldnt remember where he put it. At least at the time of his deposition.

Maybe he made a killing in the stock market with it.

Regardless, he presents a great hypothetical for me. Perhaps all of the CountryWide generated unstable mortgages and the lessons we believed we learned from them actually have been redressed. KWIM? Same old, same old.

Like I said, there has to be a bullet proof way for this transaction to have occurred. He has to be good for the money.

 

[Cubby]

Does anyone recall the yearly taxes on the home AH purchased?

tia

 

[Cubby]

Partial info.....

parking this here.

MIP or monthly mortgage insurance premium on a 675,500 FHA loan is 844.38 per mo. (mortgage insurance is required when putting less than 20% down.)
http://www.anytimeestimate.com/FHA/fha-funding-fee-mortgage-insurance.htm

700,000 at 4% for 40 years. (guessed on the 4% and fixed we do not know the terms of the loan) is 3341.91

http://www.lendingtree.com/mortgage...-calculator-tips/mortgage-payment-calculator/

So we have an estimated ballpark of 4186 per mo without the property taxes. Which could not exceed 31% of one's gross monthly income.


the above is a rough estimate.

What I would really like to know is what the mortgage company knows about the non payment of a previous mortgage for 24 out of the last 36 months (since Bob's disappearance) and how they determined the payment history deemed AH credit worthy. There should be some kind of documentation with the file regarding the mortgage for the home on Windflower which LE should be reviewing. It might provide information which could break this case wide open. LE would be remiss to not review the information and sources of any funds used to purchase this property, as well as sources of info and documentation to secure the loan.

 

[shana]

Does anyone recall the yearly taxes on the home AH purchased?

tia

Zillow provides the following historical information:

Tax History

Year Property taxes Change Tax assessment Change
fewer

2011 $4,036 1.7% $330,385 0.8%
2010 $3,968 3.6% $327,916 -0.2%
2009 $3,829 4.0% $328,696 2.0%
2008 $3,682 0.7% $322,251 2.0%
2007 $3,656 -- $315,933 2.0%
2006 $3,656 2.1% $309,739 2.0%
2005 $3,580 -- $303,666 --

See detail and far better presentation of the table at LINK below.

Also please note that the "Zestimate" (FMV) of the home at the time AH quitclaimed was apx $426k.

LINK

 

[Cubby]

An estimate of what some site says is really meaningless. It's comparable to saying after a car depreciates if one defaults on a loan they only owe the bank the current value of the car. Defaulting on bank and mortgage loans does not work that way.

When a person defaults on a mortgage the amount they owe is based on the amount they borrowed and are in arrears.

What matters here is the amount AH borrowed because if he had borrowed it from a mortgage co, that is the amount the bank would be filing the judgement/foreclosure.

 

[Cubby]

Ok if based on the above tax info, a payment on a 700,000 loan would roughly be about 4400 per month incl. piti. And that, if/for an FHA loan can not exceed 31% of the borrowers gross mo. income.

 

[shana]

An estimate of what some site says is really meaningless. It's comparable to saying after a car depreciates if one defaults on a loan they only owe the bank the current value of the car. Defaulting on bank and mortgage loans does not work that way.

When a person defaults on a mortgage the amount they owe is based on the amount they borrowed and are in arrears.

What matters here is the amount AH borrowed because if he had borrowed it from a mortgage co, that is the amount the bank would be filing the judgement/foreclosure.

I don't disagree; however, the information I posted from Zillow re the subject property is accurate and the data ascribed to Trulia in post #121 is not.

LINK

Also re post #127, keep in mind that only $610k of the new loan was funded at origination.

~jmo~

 

[Cubby]

I was refering to minimizing the amount AH financed from his grandfather. IIRC, according to AH's deposition he had mortgaged 700K plus with his grandfather. He stopped making those payments immediately upon his grandfathers disappearance. If Bob was a bank ( and not family ), the bank would be entering a judgement based on the 700K plus. Not what the property has depreciated to in todays value.

If Bob was a regular bank and not family, non payment of a mortgage for 24 out of the last 36 months, which was turned over to the bank this spring would disqualify someone from closing on a mortgage when AH did this spring or early summer, iirc, year in 2012.

Gotta run and get the kiddo from school. BB later.

 

[Allusonz]

Because per PPD they are persons of interest in the homicide investigation of Bob Harrod. Per rule of WS, discussing them as persons of interest is acceptable.

I don't believe what shana is trying to state is being understood here.

It was Fontelle's lawyers, in a legal filing, using legalese that this was stated.

 

[Allusonz]

I wonder if the co conservators provided a statement to the lender as well.

I don't believe this was required and will post my thoughts on this later. My pooperedness sets in quick

 

[Allusonz]

OK, 14k is around 2 percent but my math was never good-so there are circumstances where virtually the entire loan is financed via an FHA loan and you can put even less than 3% down?

I am on my way to CA. Get a home with no collateral or downpayment perhaps, and dont worry about your repayment history lol.

One truly needs to check into the various incentives that CA enjoys.

Technically, one would not even have to come up with any money for a down payment.

This is only one incentive. There are many more.

 

[Allusonz]

http://www.fha.com/fha_programs.cfm
This is what I found with a quick search online. These are some of the FHA grant programs.

They require the homebuyer to be a first time home buyer, low income or moderate income.

Here is where I am confused- we know AH put 14K down on the house. I see that it is possible he received that money via grant. I see that the down payment requirements for an FHA loan may be 3 percent or 2.25 percent. His down payment was less than both.

If he received down payment grants, would that mean he is a first time home buyer, low income or moderate income?

CNN Money ranked Yorba Linda in the top 100 places to live in 2012. It was ranked 42. (Go Yorba Linda!) The median income, according to their figures, $130,978.00. The average home price was $549,760.00K. (this was a reduction in the average home price from previous years...see 2010 for example.) Average property taxes 4978.00.

link here

What constitutes moderate income in Yorba Linda? Would the moderate income characterization apply nationally for an FHA loan or specifically to a certain area of the country?

If AH didnt pay his mortgage/debt on his house on Windflower, he lived rent free for two years. Wouldnt that money have been available for investment in his new home, I wonder?

Oh right he couldnt remember where he put it. At least at the time of his deposition.

Maybe he made a killing in the stock market with it.

Regardless, he presents a great hypothetical for me. Perhaps all of the CountryWide generated unstable mortgages and the lessons we believed we learned from them actually have been redressed. KWIM? Same old, same old.

Like I said, there has to be a bullet proof way for this transaction to have occurred. He has to be good for the money.

Believe I am going to jump off your post as I believe there is some information which is incorrect so I am going to present a what if scenerio.

The GS, from a business stand point had earned some equity in the home he had been paying the mortgage on. If this was me, I would as well want some form of acknowledgement as to the contributions I had made. The conservators wanted payment and in the beginning where was he to pay it to? The trust? Fontelle since she was contesting it? I don't know but what I do know is that I am not going to walk away from something which I have some equity in. I believe that is the crux of the agreement between the conservators.

I am not understanding why everyone is thinking only in terms of an FHA mortgage so I made a what if scenerio which I believe explains the GS's payment of the $14,000 and some odd dollars.

Please note that I used some of the incentives available in CA. From a business perspective, paying the FHA an insurance figure that high has never made sense to me thus I have always steered away from it.

This is only a WHAT IF:


Conforming Loan $719,000
35,950 (5%)
21,570 (CMF 3% Grant which does not require repayment that can go towards a down payment)
N/A
2% (HARP 2)
337 (Taxes/Month 4036)
2525 (Mortgage)
30 Yr (Amortisation)

2,862


FHA $719,00
$21,570 (3)
N/A (CMF)
850 (FHA Insurance)
2% (Harp 2)
337 (Taxes/Month 4036)
30 Yr (Amortisation)

3,764

35,950 - 21,570 = 14,200 GS contribution everyone is questioning.


If this was me, I would not be going with a FHA mortgage in this situation.

 

[Allusonz]

Regarding the date of the quitclaim.

I am of the belief that the aunts wanted the back payments, Fontelle was contesting, the GS wanted something back from what he put in, I believe that this was a very unusual situation, I believe that the agreement would of had to of been approved by a judge, and this is why the quitclaim occurred on the date it did.

 

[shana]

fwiw, I encourage everyone following this discussion to re-read AH's depo.

His answers to several questions shed a clear light on the financial arrangements between him and his grandfather (the Family Trust) and how they affected the reconveyance/quitclaim, etc.

There was a Settlement; altho afaik, it remains confidential at this time and we are not privy to its terms (rightly so, imo).

~jmo~

 

[Allusonz]

fwiw, I encourage everyone following this discussion to re-read AH's depo.

His answers to several questions shed a clear light on the financial arrangements between him and his grandfather (the Family Trust) and how they affected the reconveyance/quitclaim, etc.

~jmo~

Dang Shana I have to read it again? :angel:

Your right I probably should lol and I will!

 

[believe09]

Regarding the date of the quitclaim.

I am of the belief that the aunts wanted the back payments, Fontelle was contesting, the GS wanted something back from what he put in, I believe that this was a very unusual situation, I believe that the agreement would of had to of been approved by a judge, and this is why the quitclaim occurred on the date it did.

But the agreement was presented at trial on 10/31/2011. Why the quitclaim in April of 2012?

 

[shana]

Dang Shana I have to read it again? :angel:

Your right I probably should lol and I will!

LOL, I know! My eyes are crossing. And, probably like you, this is not just a first re-read.

This time I made a list of the Exhibits complete with strikeovers, once they were re-designated but still out-of-sequence. If only I had the time, I'd breakdown the entire depo to a fraction of its pages such that further review would not be so taxing.

~imnsho~

 

[believe09]

Now when they had the hearing in July, the judge set a pre trial for the secret agreement because she was sceptical (my word) that there was a law that applied to an agreement between parties in a probate matter being sealed from the general public. There isnt a patent at stake here. So the matter regarding the sealed agreement is now set for trial. At least if I am interpreting the recent hearing notes correctly.

Why seal it? Andrew is an interested party, all other matters in the case are unsealed. Who is the agreement being hidden from? The depositions are public, the hearing notes, the judgements, the trial notes, I cant help but be curious about what is in the agreement. Arent you guys?

The co conservators pursuit of Andrew for the debt stopped at phone calls and letters.


I cant help but believe that the one who loses here is Bob and the assets he built over a very long life, which should have been an even longer one now that he Hs finally found the happiness he was seeking with the woman he loved.

 

[believe09]

Regarding the date of the quitclaim.

I am of the belief that the aunts wanted the back payments, Fontelle was contesting, the GS wanted something back from what he put in, I believe that this was a very unusual situation, I believe that the agreement would of had to of been approved by a judge, and this is why the quitclaim occurred on the date it did.

Fontelle was contesting the back payments :waitasec:?