CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[Angelo]

BBM~~

Agree....IF PB really called the house. Didn't she mention something about LE having trouble verifying that call because her number came up as private?

Here it is.

August 13, 2009 (Daughter PB)

"LE has looked at D's phone records - know because they did not know which phone call was mine, because I came up as private."

 

[zwiebel]

On this site, under the 'How to check the number of a private caller ID' it does say there is a service available to find out the real number behind a call that says private.

I don't know if this technology was available in 2009 though.

http://www.ehow.com/block-cell-phones/

 

[believe09]

I once received a series of strange phone calls in 2005 that came up as private-IIRC I called my service provider and they blocked the caller.

This leads me to believe, fwiw, that LE knows the number the call came from. They could easily get it. I suspect they cant verify who was on either end of the phone....JMO.

This call has always bothered me. If you are leaning towards SIL being involved in this disappearance, PB seems to be implicating herself in some way here. I dont believe Bob answered the phone. My personal belief is that the time line starts much closer to the verified call around 10am.

If you take her words to be true, however, there were definitely multiple trips to and from the house by SIL. If SIL arrived close to the time of the first receipt, his visit to a neighborhood drug store, he had been at Bob's house since at least 9AM. So he worked diligently from 9-after 1130AM, left the house, returned, saw Bob at 130PM (a time when the CL was either already cleaning or already waiting and SIL was letting her in the house), apparently left again...a trip that took some time because his receipt at HD was stamped after 3PM.

So I think I would rather use the framework provided by CL, which means SIL did not see Bob at 1:30PM.

 

[believe09]

So, imo, if SIL didnt see Bob at 130PM, let's look at the initial time line provided by JuM-

Noon or 1PM.

SIL is diligently working from around 9-after 1130AM, PB call happens, SIL leaves and Bob disappears.

Bob disappears without leaving a key for CL, who he knew was coming, without making his bed and without executing many of his customary routines in the morning. Pretty late in the morning, mind you.

So unless Bob was known to be a lay about, he must have been exceptionally tired from the previous day's heated family meeting or possibly feeling unwell. I would think.

He is dressed says SIL, assuming that SIL provided an accurate description of what Bob was wearing. He takes his keys, his wallet, is wearing his glasses (or not-wasnt there media depicting his glasses on the kitchen table?), and he leaves the house without securing the back door, but securing the front door.

The backdoor SIL says he left unlocked. Even though Bob was there when he left.

Now, how do we retro-fit the phantom SUV story? Was this car driving to and from on the wrong side of the street between 9 and after 1130AM? Because that is when SIL had the biggest chunk of time at the house to observe this, and according to the timeline provided by family, Bob was still there.

 

[believe09]

There was some activity this week in the courts regarding the probate case-

https://ocapps.occourts.org/ProbPub...-00297798-PR-TR-LJC&src=case_src_dtl#top_page

Docket Code Filing Date Filing Party

MINUTES FINALIZED FOR (P) MOTION - OTHER 10/18/2012 01:30:00 PM. 10/19/2012

E-FILING TRANSACTION 2151352 RECEIVED ON 10/12/2012 12:14:20 PM. 10/12/2012

REPLY TO OPPOSITION (TO MOTION TO SEAL COURT RECORDS) FILED BY BRADY, ROBERTA D.; BORCHER, PAULA S. ON 10/12/2012 10/12/2012 BRADY, ROBERTA D.; BORCHER, PAULA S. ON 10/12/2012

E-FILING TRANSACTION 2149110 RECEIVED ON 10/04/2012 02:08:27 PM. 10/04/2012

OPPOSITION (TO MOTION TO SEAL COURT RECORDS) FILED BY HARROD, FONTELLE ON 10/04/2012

Looks like it was a pretty quick decision-the hearing was on 10/18/12 at 130PM.

 

[believe09]

The way I am reading this is that there was a motion to seal court records by the co conservators, opposition was filed by Mrs Harrod, there was an opposition to the opposition, a hearing and then a rapid decision.

 

[zwiebel]

So, imo, if SIL didnt see Bob at 130PM, let's look at the initial time line provided by JuM-

Noon or 1PM.

SIL is diligently working from around 9-after 1130AM, PB call happens, SIL leaves and Bob disappears.

Bob disappears without leaving a key for CL, who he knew was coming, without making his bed and without executing many of his customary routines in the morning. Pretty late in the morning, mind you.

So unless Bob was known to be a lay about, he must have been exceptionally tired from the previous day's heated family meeting or possibly feeling unwell. I would think.

He is dressed says SIL, assuming that SIL provided an accurate description of what Bob was wearing. He takes his keys, his wallet, is wearing his glasses (or not-wasnt there media depicting his glasses on the kitchen table?), and he leaves the house without securing the back door, but securing the front door.

The backdoor SIL says he left unlocked. Even though Bob was there when he left.

Now, how do we retro-fit the phantom SUV story? Was this car driving to and from on the wrong side of the street between 9 and after 1130AM? Because that is when SIL had the biggest chunk of time at the house to observe this, and according to the timeline provided by family, Bob was still there.

Remind me where the 1.30 time came from? It is sooooo hard to keep up with this timeline.
ETA: I tend towards the CL times - she was working, had prearranged her visit, and she has had the courage and decency to participate in a TV programme to state what she knows.

 

[zwiebel]

The way I am reading this is that there was a motion to seal court records by the co conservators, opposition was filed by Mrs Harrod, there was an opposition to the opposition, a hearing and then a rapid decision.

If the motion to seal was denied, does that mean the documents will be publicly available? Hope so, though even if they're not it is interesting to know that one party wanted them sealed.

 

[Oriah]

This motion to seal. Sigh. All such a waste of time and resources that could be used trying to find Mr. Harrod.

But anyway- the 'private' call issue. There are a ton of different ways and means a phone # can be made to appear as 'private' on a caller ID service- and also, it depends on the receiving phone service as well, as to how it appears on the caller ID.
Many people think that by subscribing to a service (*67 is a service of the service, as are the phone companies 'private #' services) that the location of the caller or the actual number assigned to the private call cannot be traced.
Not true.
Is true, as believe09 pointed out, that it can be difficult to ascertain who made and received the call unless it was set up to be recorded.

Can someone refresh my memory as to whether or not LE had to subpoena phone records specifically from different providers? What about emergency response? TIA if anyone knows.

 

[zwiebel]

believe09, if we accept PB's version (called after 11.30) and the CL's version (arrived at 12 as JeM returned), does that mean Bob is supposed to have disappeared in a what, 15/20 minute window while JeM was out of the house?

 

[zwiebel]

Oriah, I don't know if it is just me being a little crazy but I get a real feeling that the motion to seal and that kind of contemptuous? facebook page are aimed at WS - that the family are more concerned with preventing people here from getting any info, than they are with finding Bob. But maybe that's just my mind running a little free because this case is so unique in many ways.

As for the subpoena, I cannot recall reading anything about that so think the information is not available.

 

[zwiebel]

Just had to let you know, Angelo, that Mr Zwiebel has just pointed out that Pomeranian dogs originally came from round our way - Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (which means 'this side of Pommern'). It just looks so sweet, and I know why it has a thick coat now!
They live to around 16 years of age max, so I guess in those last years in Placentia a short walk was all it needed, but I have been speculating about the time before that. I just wonder if there was someone who walked Bob's dog on a regular basis - maybe someone close to him who had dogs of their own?
As I said before, dog walkers can get to know their surroundings really well. And they often stick to regular routes. Depending on the temperament of their pet, they might seek out secluded places, or walks where dogs could roam free, off leash. I think it's an area worth exploring, especially if dogs are involved......I LOVE dogs!

 

[zwiebel]

Duh, Mr Zwiebal's just also pointed out a Pomeranian was one of only three dogs to survive the sinking of the Titanic. He is so full of unnecessary facts - I'm officially withdrawing my invitation for him to join now!

 

[suzyq211]

Duh, Mr Zwiebal's just also pointed out a Pomeranian was one of only three dogs to survive the sinking of the Titanic. He is so full of unnecessary facts - I'm officially withdrawing my invitation for him to join now!

lol!!!

 

[zwiebel]

Have just realized if I go back and check the timeline and media links thread properly, I can get a lot of answers myself, without bothering other people! Thank you for all the work you put in there, Cubby and Angelo.

 

[Angelo]

So, imo, if SIL didnt see Bob at 130PM, let's look at the initial time line provided by JuM-

Noon or 1PM.

SIL is diligently working from around 9-after 1130AM, PB call happens, SIL leaves and Bob disappears.

Bob disappears without leaving a key for CL, who he knew was coming, without making his bed and without executing many of his customary routines in the morning. Pretty late in the morning, mind you.

So unless Bob was known to be a lay about, he must have been exceptionally tired from the previous day's heated family meeting or possibly feeling unwell. I would think.

He is dressed says SIL, assuming that SIL provided an accurate description of what Bob was wearing. He takes his keys, his wallet, is wearing his glasses (or not-wasnt there media depicting his glasses on the kitchen table?), and he leaves the house without securing the back door, but securing the front door.

The backdoor SIL says he left unlocked. Even though Bob was there when he left.

Now, how do we retro-fit the phantom SUV story? Was this car driving to and from on the wrong side of the street between 9 and after 1130AM? Because that is when SIL had the biggest chunk of time at the house to observe this, and according to the timeline provided by family, Bob was still there.

BBM~~~~

I have always had the impression JeM would not or could not provide a description of what Mr. Harrod was wearing when he disappeared. Of course JeM has never spoken openly and given the public a description of what Mr. Harrod was wearing when last seen by him.

Notice that daughter RB uses the words may and might.

August 13, 2009(Daughter RB)

"Dad may have been wearing a pinkish/red stone masonic ring and a thin gold wedding band. May have been wearing white Reebocks type shoes, thin white knee-hi socks, white polyester pants, white belt, and an unknown color shirt over a white V-neck undershirt. Dad would have had a light colored hat to protect his head from the sun."


August 30, 2010(Daughter RB)

"I wanted to describe the type of clothing I thought Dad might have been wearing and to share our suspicion of the barber lady. At this point I did not know that Fontelle had already told them all about the BL when she made the report."

 

[zwiebel]

And once again, I can think of no good reason why RB wouldn't have simply picked up the phone and ASKED her BIL what her father was wearing.
I can think of some bad reasons though....

 

[cloudajo]

Have just realized if I go back and check the timeline and media links thread properly, I can get a lot of answers myself, without bothering other people! Thank you for all the work you put in there, Cubby and Angelo.

No worries, the timeline is all over the place. Times Bob was last seen range from ~10AM to 2:40PM per information we have access to, which is outlined here:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9


The first report, the Missing Person Report written by the PPD on July 28, 2009, said Bob was last seen at 11:00AM. The information was provided to the PPD by Fontelle, who received it from JuM.

July 28, 2009
Missing Person Report
Time of Report: 0022

[snipped]

Fontelle said on 07-27-2009 at approximately 2100 hours (Pacific time) she was contacted by her daughter in law, Julie Michaels, who told her that Fontelle’s husband (Julie’s father), Robert Harrod, had not been seen since approximately 1100 hours on 07-27-2009. Fontelle said Julie told her that Julie’s husband, Jeffrey Michaels, had been at Robert and Fontelle’s home (522 Carnation) on 07-27-2009 at approximately 1100 hours.

Fontelle said Jeffrey saw a black Chevrolet Tahoe drive slowly past 522 Carnation a few times over a 10 minute period. She said nobody saw Robert leave his home at 522 Carnation, but they suspect he got into the black Tahoe and left the area.

[snipped]

July 30, 2009
Placentia Police Department website

Robert Harrod was last seen at his residence on July 27, 2009 at 1100 A.M. in the city of Placentia. When a family member returned to the house at approximately 1:00 P.M., Harrod was gone.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6994844&postcount=3http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6994844&postcount=3
http://placentia.org/index.aspx?NID=129

 

[cloudajo]

And once again, I can think of no good reason why RB wouldn't have simply picked up the phone and ASKED her BIL what her father was wearing.
I can think of some bad reasons though....

You would think right?

It might go something like this: "J, this is very important so we can get the word out. What exactly was Dad wearing when you last saw him?"

 

[cloudajo]

Yes....Which would account for this strange statement:


August 11, 2009
(Daughter PB)

"I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m."

Yeah, this post in general is strange. Almost as strange as daughter JuM posting that when Bob went missing, she called the local hospitals and coroner's office, then went down the hill to Bob's house to get the house ready, linens changed for Bob and his new wife.

Uh huh.