CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[zwiebel]

Still don't know if street parking is permitted, but people do. Both sides of the street.

Sun rose at 6am and set at 19.58 on 26/27 July 2009.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I might have missed this somewhere, but is it possible someone spent the night at Mr. Harrod's after the heated family meeting?

Wow. That would really open up the timeline.

I think it would depend on who spoke to Bob on the phone at about 10 am on Monday. All we know is that it was a non-family member.

 

[GrainneDhu]

What time is sundown in California in late July?

27 July 2009 Sunset 7:56 pm PDT

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

 

[GrainneDhu]

No worries, believe09.

It does matter- I get hung up on this issue all the time. It's so important to know the physical and emotional state of missing persons, but hard to do that without violating their privacy. An elderly individual with bad knees who left on foot, well, that's info that's really important to know from a SAR standpoint. So are any medications he may have been on. But PPD should have all of that info (whether it's accurate or not?)

Your question turned on a little light for me.

The first reason given for Bob's disappearance was that he was showing signs of mental impairment, detectable only by his family and not his family doctor.

Then the reason changed to Bob getting cold feet due to his marriage to Fontelle.

And I suddenly realised why the story changed. Why it had to change. As you pointed out earlier, a missing person who has some form of mental impairment should be an immediate emergency call out for SAR. And I would be willing to bet that having SAR all over the house that evening was the last thing Bob's offspring wanted.

So a quick change in story was needed to justify not pushing for an emergency call out.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This has been on my mind for quite some time now, and I'm not sure if I'm overthinking it (good possibility, lol) but vehicle parking at the residence and the business with the linen. Mr. Harrod's car being parked where it was, the vehicle in the garage- and all of the stuff in the garage that prevented access- and the meeting the night before which must have involved parking of other vehicles- sticks in my head.

I really think maybe we should look at who went home that night vs anyone or any vehicles- or both- who may have stayed?

I thought the Sunday meeting took place at AH's house. I don't have a source, though.

Boy, I'd love to canvass AH's neighbours as to whether they noticed any vehicles parked in his driveway or on the street near his house that night.

 

[believe09]

I thought the Sunday meeting took place at AH's house. I don't have a source, though.

Boy, I'd love to canvass AH's neighbours as to whether they noticed any vehicles parked in his driveway or on the street near his house that night.

Maybe one of his ex neighbors would be willing to reach out and share.

 

[Cubby]

Still don't know if street parking is permitted, but people do. Both sides of the street.

Sun rose at 6am and set at 19.58 on 26/27 July 2009.

Now this parking thing has me wondering....
In my area daytime street parking is permitted, but in order to park on the street overnight the vehicle must have a village vehicle sticker. I wonder if overnight street parking in Placentia is limited to residents with a vehicle sticker or not.

While looking for info on overnight parking, I found the following map which has street sweeping info and trash pick up info for Placentia.

http://www.placentia.org/index.aspx?NID=133

 

[Cubby]

According to the street sweeping map, Bob's home on Carnation falls in the Monday Street Sweeping and Wednesday Trash area, provided the current map was in effect when Bob went missing.

Street Sweeping occurs EOW. I wonder if the Monday Bob disappeared was one of the street sweeping days, and at what time the street sweeper went down Bob's street. I hope that's an avenue LE pursued closer to the time Bob disappeared. The driver might have seen something, or possibly seen Bob's driveway empty in the morning when work was allegedly being done. The mail carrier, UPS/FedX could also have testified whether a vehicle other than Bob's was in the driveway between 10:00am and noon.

Trash was on Wednesday. I wonder what was left curbside, or what might have been removed from Bob's property entirely, aside from the linens.

 

[Oriah]

Your question turned on a little light for me.

The first reason given for Bob's disappearance was that he was showing signs of mental impairment, detectable only by his family and not his family doctor.

Then the reason changed to Bob getting cold feet due to his marriage to Fontelle.

And I suddenly realised why the story changed. Why it had to change. As you pointed out earlier, a missing person who has some form of mental impairment should be an immediate emergency call out for SAR. And I would be willing to bet that having SAR all over the house that evening was the last thing Bob's offspring wanted.

So a quick change in story was needed to justify not pushing for an emergency call out.

Ahh.. yup.

From a SAR standpoint...those very rapid, specific, and conflicting statements mean something to me. I mean, if you get called out a day or two after someone with a disability of any kind (as opposed to within a few hours) whether it be for health issues, mobility, age, dependency, whatever- either someone didn't notice (which unfortunately happens a lot) or someone noticed and then freaked out, or knew what was going on to begin with and has info on that individuals' last seen description. mvhoo, of course.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Ahh.. yup.

From a SAR standpoint...those very rapid, specific, and conflicting statements mean something to me. I mean, if you get called out a day or two after someone with a disability of any kind (as opposed to within a few hours) whether it be for health issues, mobility, age, dependency, whatever- either someone didn't notice (which unfortunately happens a lot) or someone noticed and then freaked out, or knew what was going on to begin with and has info on that individuals' last seen description. mvhoo, of course.

I am left almost speechless.

People with disabilities often have much more restricted social lives than someone of the same age/gender who is able bodied. It is a logical extension that if someone has a very limited social life, then it is likely to take longer for that person to be missed.

I have been convinced for a long time that the CL's change of routine threw off whatever planning had been done. And that her own life was probably in danger that day, even though she didn't know it.

But why weren't the police jumping all over these conflicting statements?

And I still can't get past the description of Bob being dressed all in white. <shiver>

 

[believe09]

The white thing bothers me as well. There is no question that Oriah and zwiebel have chipped away at one of the big issues in this case-why the change in the circumstances of the disappearance. Maybe why the change in timeline as well, fwiw.

I am starting to be a fan of the 28 hour statement which puts Bob disappearing shortly after his phone call. Or before.

Well then for sure PB never spoke with her father. That is disappointing if that is the case, because if she made a statement to that effect to LE and per her sister's words Bob disappeared earlier, PB is obstructing the investigation.

If the black SUV is fictitious, well then that is some more obstruction. As is the cold feet, dementia story. Oops, I forgot the last seen in...as in Bob's clothes.

At least the FICA case is a useful learning tool-in florida that might get you 4 separate charges of misleading investigators. AND a bill for what the dept spent looking for Bob when all along one or more knew right where he was.

I wonder how some obstruction charges might impact that civil case...

This is all hypothetical of course. This is based upon an assumption that springs from the ex parte motion filed by Mrs Harrod's attorney-the ex parte indicates there was a conspiracy.

 

[Cubby]

Human Skeletal Remains Found Near Whitewater Adobe East of Cabazon

Human skeletal remains were discovered Thursday near the Whitewater Adobe and Union Pacific railroad tracks, between Highway 111 and Interstate 10 east of Cabazon in the San Gorgonio Pass, a police sergeant said.
It was not clear how the person died or how long ago, and investigators could not determine the deceased person's gender.

http://banning-beaumont.patch.com/a...itewater-adobe-east-of-cabazon#photo-12379874


Placentia, CA to Whitewater Adobe Park - Google Maps

 

[zwiebel]

According to the street sweeping map, Bob's home on Carnation falls in the Monday Street Sweeping and Wednesday Trash area, provided the current map was in effect when Bob went missing.

Street Sweeping occurs EOW. I wonder if the Monday Bob disappeared was one of the street sweeping days, and at what time the street sweeper went down Bob's street. I hope that's an avenue LE pursued closer to the time Bob disappeared. The driver might have seen something, or possibly seen Bob's driveway empty in the morning when work was allegedly being done. The mail carrier, UPS/FedX could also have testified whether a vehicle other than Bob's was in the driveway between 10:00am and noon.

Trash was on Wednesday. I wonder what was left curbside, or what might have been removed from Bob's property entirely, aside from the linens.

And going by JuM's post, where she says she had only been home a few hours on Friday 31st July, it looks like she was in Placentia on Wednesday 29th July to put the trash out.

 

[Cubby]

It looks like it is just short on an hours drive between White Water Adobe Park in Palm Springs where skeletal remains were found, and Running Springs.

It could be me, but is there one of those funky triangles in this map of all three places?


http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=P...9JDEJ5Q&oq=running+springs,+ca&t=h&mra=ls&z=9

 

[zwiebel]

Human Skeletal Remains Found Near Whitewater Adobe East of Cabazon

Human skeletal remains were discovered Thursday near the Whitewater Adobe and Union Pacific railroad tracks, between Highway 111 and Interstate 10 east of Cabazon in the San Gorgonio Pass, a police sergeant said.
It was not clear how the person died or how long ago, and investigators could not determine the deceased person's gender.

http://banning-beaumont.patch.com/a...itewater-adobe-east-of-cabazon#photo-12379874


Placentia, CA to Whitewater Adobe Park - Google Maps

That person has been there a while then. Maybe years?
DNA before Christmas, do you think?

 

[zwiebel]

It looks like it is just short on an hours drive between White Water Adobe Park in Palm Springs where skeletal remains were found, and Running Springs.

It could be me, but is there one of those funky triangles in this map of all three places?


http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=P...9JDEJ5Q&oq=running+springs,+ca&t=h&mra=ls&z=9

I wish Oriah was here now. I'd love to hear the input on this.

 

[Cubby]

No, I don't think DNA will be available before Christmas. It took, what, 33 months total from the time of discovery to the time DNA was available for the Lucerne Valley UID, so no way to know how long this one might be.

 

[zwiebel]

If you've been looking in on the SAR thread, that location has room for a three point turn. Oriah said that's something to look for. And I can definitely make a triangle there, from our places of interest.

 

[zwiebel]

Another short article. Says it was a skeleton, found near Tipton Road.

http://www.kmir6.com/news/toprotator/181466031.html

http://www.kesq.com/news/Human-Rema...ings/-/233092/17601510/-/d9qusez/-/index.html

This article also says a skull was found in the valley on Monday:
http://www.mydesert.com/article/201...ings?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|&nclick_check=1

 

[Cubby]

Hikers discover human skull in open desert

Foul play considered as autopsy scheduled for later this week


A little more information on the skull found Monday.

http://www.kesq.com/news/Hikers-dis...sert/-/233092/17555756/-/jxxqahz/-/index.html


Can make a three point turnaround here too. Paraphrased from the article it appears there might be a gun shot wound to the back of the skull. Front of skull is missing.