CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[believe09]

I am philosophical about Disappeared-I suspect it is going to air when the time is right.

 

[Seajay]

I am philosophical about Disappeared-I suspect it is going to air when the time is right.

I love that thought. Maybe it's because someone specific has to see it, someone who may have information that's gonna crack this case wise open. Someone who ordinarily wouldn't watch or would be on the road on Monday nights, or something. So it's gonna air exactly when the time is right. For Bob.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Now I'm thinking the date death actually occured and the date of death on a certificate (going by when a mp is found) are going to turn out to be two separate legal entities.

When that wealthy man Steve Fossett crashed his plane and disappeared, I seem to remember he was declared dead before he was found, so his wife could take care of the estate. When he was found much later, and presumably a certificate issued for death on date found........would that mean in retrospect the first date of death no longer counted, and he would have been considered alive for tax and inheritance purposes etc, while his estate was being administered? And what on earth happens with the people found after 30 or 40 years?

I'm confusing myself just thinking about this and I'm sure it could lead to some horrendous complications. There must be a system in place for this - maybe there is an answer in another case here on WS? Or better still, maybe someone with legal knowledge will pop up with an answer, before I totally confound myself.

ETA wasted a lot of time researching that as I'd got the name wrong. Declared dead in Feb 2008, (Cook County) but discovered later and date of death then set as Sept 2007. Just can't figure out how people can have two dates of death, but it seems some do.

I read an article about the legal and tax ramifications of Steve Fossett's death at the time and cannot find it again. As I recall, for legal and tax purposes, the date that he was declared dead is the one that counts.

Makes sense because otherwise there would be hideous amounts of confusion.

In my state, I know that my parents' will specified that if they both died in the same incident such as a car accident, my mother's death would be counted as happening before my father's death for estate purposes no matter what the actual facts were. I thought that was sort of gruesome but their lawyer said it was a common provision in wills and had a lot of precedent in law.

Fortunately, that clause never came into play.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Quick question-what happens if the estate is bled to below the estate tax guidelines.

IIRC, the ByPass was established so that the assets of the surviving spouse would have a tax break. It was Georgia's 50%-the Survivors trust is Bob's 50%. Ideally, they are equivalent amounts....oh except for that pesky conservators account that was established at some point. So there are actually more vehicles out there holding Bob's hard earned assets than the two original.

Gosh, what on earth would make anyone think that was happening? <coughcough>

If Bob's estate is bled down to below the legal threshold, then there won't be any estate tax owed on it. However, the person or people who removed the money from the estate would have to pay income tax on it.

One way or another, the IRS always gets some.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Just posting this financial bit from AH deposition because I think all the information about the amounts in question for that one of Bob's properties is there. It's just more math, so I'm going away with a paper and pencil.

Court Deposition. August 2011

What did AH do with the additional loan?
‘There were loans between these two. They weren’t involving my grandfather. This loan was paid off. This loan was started. The two were not connected.
I only received a portion of the money, and the money went to go pay…to pay off a loan that I had on the house.’

SBM

That part sounds like my best friend's divorce (not in California). The way the actual settlement was carried out was as if there were two unrelated property transactions.

She simply gave him a quitclaim to the property.

Unrelated to that action, he just happened to make out a check for half of the value of the equity in the property.

For tax purposes, the two transactions were in theory not related even though anyone with a morsel of common sense could guess that the quitclaim and check cut on the same date were related.

I wonder if something of the sort was going on with AH and Bob? And if so, did Bob know about it?

 

[littlegreycells31]

I am a fan of Disappeared and saw this case on their website where I became interested in it. I have read through a lot of the posts here. Just wondered where the skeletal remains and skull that were found recently are in relation to Mr. Harrod's house? Does anyone know?

Also, what happened to the poster CAexile that was posting on here earlier in the discussion?? :waitasec:

 

[zwiebel]

I have trouble making any sense of that sentence of AH's. I don't know if it's just me not understanding US property financing, or him struggling to give (or maybe not give) a clear answer.

 

[zwiebel]

I am a fan of Disappeared and saw this case on their website where I became interested in it. I have read through a lot of the posts here. Just wondered where the skeletal remains and skull that were found recently are in relation to Mr. Harrod's house? Does anyone know?

Also, what happened to the poster CAexile that was posting on here earlier in the discussion?? :waitasec:

Welcome to Bob's thread! Is that Hercule Poiroit?

ETA: It says so in your sig, plus I've spelt it wrong. Shame.

I can't answer your first question on this computer as it won't let me link maps.

As for the second, CAexile stopped posting when he was nastily attacked by another poster, who was then banned. I believe that poster was not unconnected to Bob's case.

I keep hoping CAexile will venture back one day.

 

[SuziQ]

I swear this is the last time I will say this, but the first one to the DA is going to win for sure....on many different levels.

But it's true, so keep saying it. And my post will also bump it up...and I've bolded for emphasis.

 

[SuziQ]

I don't remember the exact details. Can someone chime in with links or back up? IIRC, CAexile also went publicly silent because of specific threats from Bob's daughters.

 

[zwiebel]

Human Skeletal Remains Found Near Whitewater Adobe East of Cabazon

Human skeletal remains were discovered Thursday near the Whitewater Adobe and Union Pacific railroad tracks, between Highway 111 and Interstate 10 east of Cabazon in the San Gorgonio Pass, a police sergeant said.
It was not clear how the person died or how long ago, and investigators could not determine the deceased person's gender.

http://banning-beaumont.patch.com/a...itewater-adobe-east-of-cabazon#photo-12379874


Placentia, CA to Whitewater Adobe Park - Google Maps

Bumping Cubby's post, and hoping it will work. Bob's home is in Carnation Drive, Placentia.
ETA: 1 and a quarter hours, approx, from Bob's home.

 

[zwiebel]

I don't remember the exact details. Can someone chime in with links or back up? IIRC, CAexile also went publicly silent because of specific threats from Bob's daughters.

'One of Bob's daughters was watching also. She sent me a threatening message to stop posting. I continued to post anyway.'

http://paulkestes.blogspot.de/2010/07/bob-harrod-missing-one-year.html

I think PE was unprepared, when he wrote that, for means which daughter was prepared to adopt to get her way. cloudajo has all the choicest details.

 

[Cubby]

I have trouble making any sense of that sentence of AH's. I don't know if it's just me not understanding US property financing, or him struggling to give (or maybe not give) a clear answer.

Me neither. It sounded like he was trying to hide something. No, he did not give clear answers. Not even remotely close to clear answers.

For those who wonder what we're talking about, it's AH, Bob's grandsons deposition. I will link it again shortly.


ETA: Here is the link to AH's deposition:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod-Court Documents No discussion

 

[zwiebel]

SAR thread, for further details of places of interest.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[littlegreycells31]

Welcome to Bob's thread! Is that Hercule Poiroit?

ETA: It says so in your sig, plus I've spelt it wrong. Shame.

I can't answer your first question on this computer as it won't let me link maps.

As for the second, CAexile stopped posting when he was nastily attacked by another poster, who was then banned. I believe that poster was not unconnected to Bob's case.

I keep hoping CAexile will venture back one day.

Yes, I am a big Agatha Christie fan, Hercule Poirot fan, as well as love David Suchet. lol

It's sad about Mr. Harrod though. His neighbor seemed to be really helpful with the situation. I just wondered how close the bones were in proximity to where he lived in the case that maybe he decided to take one of his walks on the day he went missing and fell and hit his head or fainted or something such as that? But, if they are an hour away..that seems improbable but not entirely impossible I suppose. Was there ever ground searches done around the area he liked to walk? Does anyone know? I would assume so, but I haven't had time to search through all of the posts here. It's really a sad story. Looking forward to the Disappeared episode. :twocents:

 

[Cubby]

Welcome littlegreycells31! :welcome:

Thank you for coming out of lurkdom for Mr. Harrod's case.
Glad to have you here.

 

[zwiebel]

Bob had such bad knees he couldn't walk further than a little circle around his block. Searches were made in any places nearby where he might possibly have fallen, but the truth is it seems impossible for him to have fallen in such a suburban area and not to have been found quickly. IMO, he was driven away, and never driven back.

 

[littlegreycells31]

Welcome littlegreycells31! :welcome:

Thank you for coming out of lurkdom for Mr. Harrod's case.
Glad to have you here.

Thank you. I don't post much. Just when I find a story that really touches me like this one. My dad is not too much younger than Mr. Harrod. I just think it's so sad watching the video of him walking around in his back yard and everything talking about his wife and he got choked up. He seemed real happy. It's just sad. I am just wondering how many searches were conducted to look for him? Hoping that someone finds him one day soon.

 

[littlegreycells31]

I guess my biggest question with someone killing him is what would they get from it? The hairdresser...his wife...neither of them would gain anything from a dead Mr. Harrod. It would seem that it would be more of a heat of the moment type thing possibly with a family member or someone closely connected if it wasn't a matter of him walking off and getting hurt or lost, etc. Perhaps he got pushed or shoved during the heated discussion and got hurt or killed accidentally and then it got covered up? There seem to be a lot of "issues" between him and the kids. Just my rambling thoughts of course. :moo:

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you. I don't post much. Just when I find a story that really touches me like this one. My dad is not too much younger than Mr. Harrod. I just think it's so sad watching the video of him walking around in his back yard and everything talking about his wife and he got choked up. He seemed real happy. It's just sad. I am just wondering how many searches were conducted to look for him? Hoping that someone finds him one day soon.

I can't view that video on this. And I have another computer but I can't bring myself to watch it. Everyone's said it is so sad. I'm afraid I'll get upset and start posting rubbish (worse than usual).