CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #13

[zwiebel]

At least in the case of the hairdresser, it was a court that decided the money Bob gave her was a gift, as there was no document of Bob's found describing a loan, according to Bob's daughters. Whereas with the grandson, it seems to be him, and then his aunts who decided Bob's documented loan to him was a gift. Well, a gift in the event of Bob's death. Which, as we all know, has not yet been declared.

 

[zwiebel]

In regards to whether there would be any distribution from Georgia's estate prior to Bob's death. I need to go to the doc thread and read Georgia's will if we have it. It really depends on how their estate plan was structured.

If her estate in its entirety went straight to the bypass trust then there would be no specific provisions for the children outside of that.

It's not there yet. It has to be picked up in person from the OC court house and I don't think we have managed to find anyone who can do it yet.

I think.

 

[zwiebel]

No, it's not there.

Georgia Harrod's will is case number 30-2008-00068771-PR-OP-LJC at OC probate court.

 

[tlcya]

darn. I can only guess then that her estate in its entirety was willed to the bypass trust. If that was the case I would think there would be no need to probate her estate. I am not a lawyer and am unfamiliar with how CA law differs from IL but here, if everything rolls into a standalone trust upon someone's death then there is no need for probate. Now once the other spouse dies, given the size of the estate involved, His estate would need probate to oversee the distribution of the remainder of the estate at the time of his death.

Probate is usually for the overseeing of the distributions from an estate. Be it to heirs, creditors, etc. If the will provided for executor to pay final costs and outstanding liens (I am pretty sure there were no liens in this situation) and the rest is rolled into the trust then there is no real reason for court oversight I don't think.

ETA court oversight will become necessary if the heirs of the trust file a claim with the courts to demand an accounting from the trustee for how the assets of the trust are being held or handled

Here in IL in those instances where an estate is not probated, the will is still filed with the clerk of the courts but no actual probate opened. It is simply filed as a matter of record and assigned an identifying number.

Please keep in mind all of the above is simply MOO based on my experience with estate planning, trusts, probate, etc in my own area.

 

[Cubby]

No; the estate does not get distributed until the surviving spouse passes. Most people do not know that. They assume it gets distributed.

Yes, but Georgia either willed her daughters money or she did not.

I agree Bob's daughters were unaware nothing was distributed until the surving spouse passes. That is the motive right there, imo. Get rid of Bob, the surving spouse and the money gets distributed before he has a chance to spend it enjoying his retirement and his new bride, doing the normal things retiree's do.


ETA: .... or prevent Bob from spending any money so the money which exists can be distributed at a later date and thus preventing him from enjoying his retirement and his new bride, doing what retiree's normally do.

 

[Cubby]

And that's it. I think I have RSI or carpal tunnel from the typing hehe

I hope it's not too hard to read and I apologise for the tenses and 'person' speak getting mixed up. Let me know of any questions!

As an overview, five people took part in the episode -

Fontelle
Daughter R
Daughter P
Det Loomis
Det Radomski

ETA - oops six people counting the housekeeper A!

Wow! I find it interesting AH, Bob's grandson, decided to join his parents in not participating in this episode. Very, very interesting. Especially since he was the one to accompany LE for the well being/welfare check at Bob's home the night of his disappearance.

 

[believe09]

I'm glad the question about whether son-in-law's car was searched has been answered. The car was clean with no evidence of a crime. That's important.

I really do wonder if LE have any indications that anyone other than JeM and the housekeeper visited Bob's home that day.

Wait a minute-the car was clean? After his small jobs? Isnt he a contractor and fisherman? :waitasec:

 

[believe09]

And that's it. I think I have RSI or carpal tunnel from the typing hehe

I hope it's not too hard to read and I apologise for the tenses and 'person' speak getting mixed up. Let me know of any questions!

As an overview, five people took part in the episode -

Fontelle
Daughter R
Daughter P
Det Loomis
Det Radomski

ETA - oops six people counting the housekeeper A!

:bow:

Did anyone link the judges ruling after the civil suit against the hairdresser where not only was there no finding of elder abuse, the lawsuit was completely without merit and the co conservators were found libel for court costs and attorney fees.

It was a scathing ruling.
ETA:

LINK HERE

 

[zwiebel]

Oh my gosh, yes. My car is an absolute wreck inside; it just can't be helped if you do repairs and home renovations and use your vehicle. Didn't JeM do quite a lot of renovations, according to his wife?

 

[believe09]

I wonder when the show was actually filmed-I wonder if it was prior to the ruling therefore the daughters felt they could make such LIBELOUS statements against a person who not only has been cleared of involvement, something that a daughter (IIRC) confirmed in a post on IS and a statement by PPD to the media, but someone who prevailed in a lawsuit with no merit regarding the issues raised by the daughters in the Disappeared episode....

BL has a case for some legal action here I would think. Just sayin.

 

[Cubby]

Oh my gosh, yes. My car is an absolute wreck inside; it just can't be helped if you do repairs and home renovations and use your vehicle. Didn't JeM do quite a lot of renovations, according to his wife?

Yes, he did. A handy man with a spotless car, imagine that!

 

[believe09]

I mean come on, that is ludicrous. If his car was clean, then he had it cleaned. This is not rocket science. Perhaps it was exceptionally dirty and he prefers a clean car. Until his next contracting work or set of small jobs.

 

[Jillian]

Hi, I'm brand new here and in Sydney and until 24 hrs. ago had never heard of this case. Afte watching Disappeared I became really interested and went searching and found you. So many questions! Can I begin with; did Fontelle speak to Bob on the Monday morning as was her custom?

 

[believe09]

To answer my own question- The trial regarding hairdresser was on March 28, 2012. The ruling was on April 6, 2012.

Interesting. It would be poor form on the co conservators part if they opted to libel her anyway, knowing the outcome of the trial.

Perhaps they had no idea and thought they would prevail. I suppose that I might have called the producers upon finding out the judge's thoughts so that they might re shoot that portion of the show. Just sayin.

Ball is in your court, BL.

 

[tlcya]

Yes, but Georgia either willed her daughters money or she did not.

I agree Bob's daughters were unaware nothing was distributed until the surviving spouse passes. That is the motive right there, imo. Get rid of Bob, the surviving spouse and the money gets distributed before he has a chance to spend it enjoying his retirement and his new bride, doing the normal things retiree's do.


ETA: .... or prevent Bob from spending any money so the money which exists can be distributed at a later date and thus preventing him from enjoying his retirement and his new bride, doing what retiree's normally do.

and jumping off to take this thought further, if the estates of Bob and Georgia were structured as I imagine they were, then the adult children/heirs would receive nothing til the time of Bob's death and his estate was distributed through the probate courts.

However, by marrying, Bob threw a monkey wrench into that possibility. Bob married Fontelle. Now if he dies, even if his will has not been changed to provide for her, she could conceivably tie up the estate (with no access for anyone to money til it was resolved) by challenging the will in court. Especially if he had made it known it was his intention to alter his will after marriage to provide for her.

So Bob's disappearance in that regard worked out perfectly in such a manner as to allow the children to seize control of the trust in his absence by conservatorship. In this manner, Bob is not dead so Fontelle cannot challenge his will or make a claim against his estate as his surviving spouse. The children have control of the money.

This right here, in a nutshell explains to me why Bob's family, aside from his widow, seem uninterested in figuring out what happened to Bob or having his case solved. As long as Bob's status does not change from missing to deceased its as if they received the benefit of both the parents estates without Bob being officially dead and without Fontelle having a legal claim as his widow with which to challenge his will.

 

[believe09]

Hi, I'm brand new here and in Sydney and until 24 hrs. ago had never heard of this case. Afte watching Disappeared I became really interested and went searching and found you. So many questions! Can I begin with; did Fontelle speak to Bob on the Monday morning as was her custom?

:wagon: Jillian!!

We are eager to answer your questions, and will likely all start posting at once.

Did you get a chance to check out this synopsis that Zwiebel put together??

Synopsis

 

[zwiebel]

I believe it was filmed in February 2012, believe09.

 

[believe09]

and jumping off to take this thought further, if the estates of Bob and Georgia were structured as I imagine they were, then the adult children/heirs would receive nothing til the time of Bob's death and his estate was distributed through the probate courts.

However, by marrying, Bob threw a monkey wrench into that possibility. Bob married Fontelle. Now if he dies, even if his will has not been changed to provide for her, she could conceivably tie up the estate (with no access for anyone to money til it was resolved) by challenging the will in court. Especially if he had made it known it was his intention to alter his will after marriage to provide for her.

So Bob's disappearance in that regard worked out perfectly in such a manner as to allow the children to seize control of the trust in his absence by conservatorship. In this manner, Bob is not dead so Fontelle cannot challenge his will or make a claim against his estate as his surviving spouse. The children have control of the money.

This right here, in a nutshell explains to me why Bob's family, aside from his widow, seem uninterested in figuring out what happened to Bob or having his case solved. As long as Bob's status does not change from missing to deceased its as if they received the benefit of both the parents estates without Bob being officially dead and without Fontelle having a legal claim as his widow with which to challenge his will.

Would you send this to Detective Radomski please?

He confirmed the belief that this is all about the money.

 

[believe09]

I believe it was filmed in February 2012, believe09.

Ah-ha. Oops-I wonder if there is now a super secret agreement with BL to prevent any legal ramifications from their on camera interviews?

Wouldnt that be something....

 

[zwiebel]

Hi, I'm brand new here and in Sydney and until 24 hrs. ago had never heard of this case. Afte watching Disappeared I became really interested and went searching and found you. So many questions! Can I begin with; did Fontelle speak to Bob on the Monday morning as was her custom?

Welcome Jillian! Australians are my favourite people in the world at this time. Thank you so much for joining up and dropping in to Bob's thread.