CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #13

[believe09]

For those who joined this discussion in the last year or two, there was a trial on October 31, 2011. It was during that trial that the letter written by RB dated 7/17/2009 was entered into evidence. The letter can be found on Bob's court docs thread here at WS. The trial took place because Mrs Harrod was requesting a neutral third party be appointed to manage the Survivors trust because of breach of fiduciary responsibility.

It was during that trial that the super secret settlement agreement between AH and his aunts was revealed-the existence of it.

The judge who presided over that trial found for the trustees-he found that there were mistakes made in the accounting done by the co conservators, but that they didnt rise to the level of gross negligence.

Of course, they totaled tens of thousands of dollars, but I guess when you are talking about an estate this size that doesnt rise to the level of "gross." To refresh some of you, monies for things like dog grooming and gardeners for the daughters were paid for out of the Survivors Trust.

I was going back over the sworn testimony in that trial today and a few things really struck me.

Over all, when you take the testimony in it's entirety (and I mean on both sides) AH was kind of thrown under the bus here.

Let me give you a few examples: (PB is testifying, Fontelle's atty is questioning her)

Q.) Regarding the note with A(H) that the trust has, what was the amount of that note?
A.) 726,000.00

Q.) And which trust holds that note?
A.) The ByPass Trust.

Q.) After you were appointed as the trustees, did you demand payment from Mr H?
A.) Yes.

Q.) And what was the result of that demand?
A.) No response.

Q.) Did Mr H--
A.) He did not want to make the payment as he was promised by his grandfather, my father, that they had an understanding, so to speak, that after his--that he was no longer here, that his house would be free and clear.

During the end of the trial when the attorney's were summing their arguments up, RB/PB's atty referred to Mrs Harrod's testimony regarding the bad blood and the attempt to throw her out of the house on July 30. 2009.

IS: "The other thing I would like to point out, which counsel indicated at the beginning of the case, was that there's bad blood. My clients have testified here, your honor, when they heard about their father getting remarried, there was no bad blood. That they were happy that he found somebody that he can share the rest of his life with. There was no bad blood. They have testified to that.

Mrs. Harrod has testified that if there were any comments made it was made by the grandson.

She goes on further to say:

My clients had no demands except that the memorabilia and statements be returned. That's the only thing that they got out of that.

So AH walked out on 726K and he was the one who did all of the talking about getting rid of Fontelle.

And all her clients got out of this conflict was the memorabilia.

 

[believe09]

I also want to point out, in what I found to be some of the most chilling testimony in the trial, JeM was paid for handyman work on Carnation Dr AFTER Bob disappeared. The expense came out of the Survivors Trust.

(PB testifying about all of the checks written out of the Survivors Trust...one of the examples of the gross negligence motion by Mrs Harrod)d

Q.) And going on further, JeM, the same thing, the Placentia repairs, I would concede Placentia, that would refer to--well let me ask you, is that AH's house on Windflower just around the corner from Fontelle's house?
A.) No, it was not. That was not a trust owned home. That the century repairs with done on 522 Carnation Ave in Placentia, which is our Father's property in the Survivor's trust.

 

[zwiebel]

Whatever the emoticon for sheer, unadulterated shock is, can somebody post it on my behalf? I'm busy trying to get my breath back.

 

[Mels3kidz]

If Bob planned on going out he might have handed JeM a key - but then he would also have put one in the mailbox for the housekeeper too, as he always had before.

I want to change believe's question around now - from why didn't the family have a key, to why did son-in-law have one?

The answer might be as simple as JeM taking the housekeeper's key from the mailbox.

Mel

 

[Cubby]

The reason I can't make JeM taking the key out of the mailbox work is because Bob was (allegedly) home when JeM left for the hardware store and JeM was not aware Bob planned to go anywhere.

The Housekeeper arrived before JeM so she looked in the mail box before JeM would have had a chance to look for a key in the mail box.

The only way it works, is if JeM took the key before he left for the hardware store. And if Bob was really home when he left, there would have been no reason for Bob to put the key in the mailbox in time for JeM to take it.

That is why I think JeM left with both Bob and Bob's keys, prior to leaving for wherever he went late morning prior to arriving back at Bob's to find the housekeeper waiting.

And I do not believe that late morning stop was at the hardware store. There is no info on any reciept stating he was at the hardware store before noon on the day of Bob's disappearance. The hardware store receipt is stamped right about 3:00 pm.

 

[cloudajo]

When facing Bob’s house from the street, Bob’s car was parked on the left side of the driveway in front of the garage (per the ktla video taken the next day). There was space on the right side for another vehicle. I think JeM parked on the right side next to Bob’s car that morning.

Bob may have been carried out the back door of the house, around the right side (when facing the house), and placed into a vehicle. Check out the map on Google or Bing for the view.

If the person took Bob’s keys to dispose of with Bob, or left them in the house, he may have left the back door unlocked as he knew he had to return.

JeM didn’t know the housekeeper was coming that day.

 

[noZme]

When facing Bob’s house from the street, Bob’s car was parked on the left side of the driveway in front of the garage (per the ktla video taken the next day). There was space on the right side for another vehicle. I think JeM parked on the right side next to Bob’s car that morning.

Bob may have been carried out the back door of the house, around the right side (when facing the house), and placed into a vehicle. Check out the map on Google or Bing for the view.

If the person took Bob’s keys to dispose of with Bob, or left them in the house, he may have left the back door unlocked as he knew he had to return.

JeM didn’t know the housekeeper was coming that day.

True. But I still think Bob may have walked out of his house & gotten into a vehicle, either of his own free will or coerced. Then whatever happened, came a little later..... Absolutely nothing left in the house to straighten or clean up.

 

[Cubby]

When facing Bob’s house from the street, Bob’s car was parked on the left side of the driveway in front of the garage (per the ktla video taken the next day). There was space on the right side for another vehicle. I think JeM parked on the right side next to Bob’s car that morning.

Bob may have been carried out the back door of the house, around the right side (when facing the house), and placed into a vehicle. Check out the map on Google or Bing for the view.

If the person took Bob’s keys to dispose of with Bob, or left them in the house, he may have left the back door unlocked as he knew he had to return.

JeM didn’t know the housekeeper was coming that day.

BBM.

That is exactly how I believe Bob was taken out of the house.
That wall on the right side of the house looks tall enough to provide an area to remove a body and remain hidden from the neighbors view. Especially if a truck backed into the driveway. Bob's car and the tail gate could have opened to the left side and the wall on the right provides access from the home to a truck without the neighbors view on either side. Plus there is a door in the fence just to the right of the garage door.

 

[Cubby]

True. But I still think Bob may have walked out of his house & gotten into a vehicle, either of his own free will or coerced. Then whatever happened, came a little later..... Absolutely nothing left in the house to straighten or clean up.

Sadly,I think Bob was removed from the house deceased or incapacitated prior to the housekeepers arrival. IMO that is why the daughters refused to ever reveal the repairs. I think there were repairs done which were not on the original punch list which were repaired to cover up a crime scene.

LE isn't going to make public what they found in the house, or what they didn't find in the house (which might have belonged there) until this gets to trial.

 

[believe09]

To me it seems clear that there was something to clean up only because JeM came back from wherever he had been.

Why not keep on truckin?

 

[Mels3kidz]

To me it seems clear that there was something to clean up only because JeM came back from wherever he had been.

Why not keep on truckin?

Unless he did know that the housekeeper was coming (Bob could have mentioned it to him that morning) and thought that she'd be a good alibi?

Mel

 

[suzyq211]

Unless he did know that the housekeeper was coming (Bob could have mentioned it to him that morning) and thought that she'd be a good alibi?

Mel

Except that she said that JeM seemed surprised to see her waiting and asked her if she was supposed to be there that day, IIRC?

 

[Mels3kidz]

Except that she said that JeM seemed surprised to see her waiting and asked her if she was supposed to be there that day, IIRC?

Yeah but that could be faked....or it could be her perception of his manner.

Mel

 

[Cubby]

Narrator: But Jeff was not the only person at Bob’s house that day. Agnes, Bob’s housekeeper of more than 10 years, arrived around Noon. Normally, she cleans Bob’s house on Tuesday, but this week she’d arranged to come on Monday.

<snip>



Agnes: Bob always was home when I went over there, or if, him and Georgia, they would always always tell me if they would not be home, and they put a key in the mailbox. But it was a very rare occasion that they were not home.

Narrator: After about 15 minutes, Jeff drove up to the house.

Agnes: I told him right away that, you know, that where Bob is, because he&#8217;s not answering the door. And Jeff was just asking me, &#8220;Are you supposed to be here today?&#8221; I said, &#8220;Yeah, Bob knew that I&#8217;m coming today.&#8221;

Narrator: Agnes was surprised to hear that Bob didn&#8217;t tell Jeff that she would be coming that day. As Jeff let her in the house, she began to feel that something was very wrong.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only


I don't believe the housekeeper had any reason to fake it or lie. She, not JeM, chose to share what happened that day. According to her statements it sounds like JeM had no idea she would be there Monday and not her usual day of Tuesday.

In fact, JeM and JuM previously lived next to Bob on Carnation. They would be aware of the housekeepers usual day, which is why I believe he showed up that particular Monday. He expected Fontelle to come home Wednesday thinking Bob walked away from her a second time, and the housekeeper coming on Tuesday to find no answer would support the theory Bob walked away willingly.

Thank God the housekeeper showed up on Monday. If she didn't, I don't believe we would have ever known JeM was there on Monday.

 

[zwiebel]

The thing that convinces me that JeM really didn't know the housekeeper was coming is those long, silent minutes he spent upstairs. Silent, although he knew the housekeeper was waiting downstairs, frightened to death about what he might find. She was so frightened in fact, she had asked him to go upstairs and see if Bob was there because she was too afraid.

Instead of quickly checking the rooms and shouting down to the housekeeper that Bob wasn't there, son-in-law made her wait, and wait. Until finally, overcome with dread that he'd found something, the housekeeper shouted up to him. Only then did he tell her Bob was not there.

I'm not sure if he was actually doing something physical up there or.......just thinking. Maybe considering. It's not something I like to dwell on. Bet the housekeeper doesn't either.

 

[Mels3kidz]

I think you missunderstood me. I never said that the housekeeper "faked" anything. Rather that JeM faked being surprised at seeing her.

I think that the family is involved in Bob's disappearance. I'm just tossing other ideas out to see if they have any merit.

Mel

Narrator: But Jeff was not the only person at Bob’s house that day. Agnes, Bob’s housekeeper of more than 10 years, arrived around Noon. Normally, she cleans Bob’s house on Tuesday, but this week she’d arranged to come on Monday.

<snip>



Agnes: Bob always was home when I went over there, or if, him and Georgia, they would always always tell me if they would not be home, and they put a key in the mailbox. But it was a very rare occasion that they were not home.

Narrator: After about 15 minutes, Jeff drove up to the house.

Agnes: I told him right away that, you know, that where Bob is, because he’s not answering the door. And Jeff was just asking me, “Are you supposed to be here today?” I said, “Yeah, Bob knew that I’m coming today.”

Narrator: Agnes was surprised to hear that Bob didn’t tell Jeff that she would be coming that day. As Jeff let her in the house, she began to feel that something was very wrong.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only


I don't believe the housekeeper had any reason to fake it or lie. She, not JeM, chose to share what happened that day. According to her statements it sounds like JeM had no idea she would be there Monday and not her usual day of Tuesday.

In fact, JeM and JuM previously lived next to Bob on Carnation. They would be aware of the housekeepers usual day, which is why I believe he showed up that particular Monday. He expected Fontelle to come home Wednesday thinking Bob walked away from her a second time, and the housekeeper coming on Tuesday to find no answer would support the theory Bob walked away willingly.

Thank God the housekeeper showed up on Monday. If she didn't, I don't believe we would have ever known JeM was there on Monday.

 

[Mountain Misst]

The answer might be as simple as JeM taking the housekeeper's key from the mailbox.

Mel

Hi Mel... "Key in the letterbox" for the cleaner would have been the front door key I think. JeM let himself in the back door while the cleaner waited outside the front door for him to let her in.

My reasoning is that if the "key in the letterbox" was for the back door then the cleaner would have followed JeM around and entered through the back door with him, rather than wait until JeM opened the front door for her.

 

[believe09]

I get the idea, Mel. That JeM was using CL as an alibi.

I think there is merit to all of the ideas tossed out here-I know that folks are invested in the idea that Bob didnt answer the call around 10AM.

This is what makes this timeline such an adventure. If Bob didnt answer the phone, for example, on 7/27, then our timeline begins sometime after the heated family exchange and after his last conversation with Fontelle.

kwim?

We could definitely widen it from 7/26/09 evening to when CL showed up and JeM showed up on 7/27/09 noonish.

This would make it much more believable as to why he hasnt been located.

The reason why I dont necessarily believe this is the case is because I dont see the point of any machinations like faking voices for phone calls etc. It seems pretty unlikely that anyone responsible for this would put something so very complicated into place in such a short amount of time. I mean maybe if this had been in the works since Bob was married to Fontelle, but then RB's letter would provide a red flag as to motive. That would make it so the bus was coming for her.

I am stuck with the around 10AM 7/27 time frame which was set in motion by the person who would know, JuM. She is married to the person who states they last saw Bob alive and in the house. jmvho

 

[believe09]

As for the keys. There is a big story there with the keys. For sure.

If Fontelle changed the locks, I wonder where the old ones are? I bet they are stored somewhere in the house, but most likely they are at PPD. Or OCSO CSI.

 

[believe09]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #13

I am linking my own post here, because I wonder if anyone else sees this as I do? Be honest-my feelings wont be hurt.

The trial and the sworn testimony went on after AH was released from having to testify. It seemed almost like the finger was pointed when he left the room....at least it did to me.