CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #14

[charminglane]

Just checking in. Nothing to report.
Keep your chins up, everyone.

 

[Cubby]

deca, here is the line of reasoning I was thinking of when I replied to your post earlier.

Originally posted by tlcya

okey dokey, email successfully sent. Hope I don't come off as some kuckoo


Quote:
Dear Detective:

Thank you for your work on Bob Harrod’s case. I have been following this case from afar, in XXXXXX, and so appreciate the fact that someone aside from his widow, Fontelle, is still interested in finding out what became of Bob. I realize how difficult the task of dealing with cold cases can be for law enforcement and have tremendous respect for those who serve and protect.

Recently ID channel’s “Disappeared” featured Bob’s case on their show and I note from some of your statements that you feel money may be at the root of this case. I could not agree more.

if the estates of Bob and Georgia were structured as I imagine they were with their estates rolling into a bypass trust controlled by the surviving spouse, then the adult children/heirs would receive nothing til the time of Bob's death and his estate was distributed through the probate courts.

However, by marrying, Bob threw a monkey wrench into that possibility. Bob married Fontelle. Now if he dies, even if his will has not been changed to provide for her, she could conceivably tie up the estate (with no access for anyone to money til it was resolved) by challenging the will in court. Especially if he had made it known it was his intention to alter his will and other finances after marriage in order to provide for her.

So Bob's disappearance in that regard worked out perfectly in such a manner as to allow the children to seize control of the trust in his absence by conservatorship. In this manner, Bob is not dead so Fontelle cannot challenge his will or make a claim against his estate as his surviving spouse. The children have control of the money.

This right here, in a nutshell explains to me why Bob's family, aside from his widow, seem uninterested in figuring out what happened to Bob or having his case solved. As long as Bob's status does not change from missing to deceased its as if they received the benefit of both the parents estates without Bob being officially dead and without Fontelle having a legal claim as his widow with which to challenge his will.


Anyway, I appreciate your time and am very glad to know that Bob’s case is still on your radar and wish you success in eventually solving this case and providing Fontelle with some closure.

Very truly yours,

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #13

 

[TDW59]

SUPERB letter! Way to go!

Cloudajo, Yes, I can see it possible that CL would be told to skip cleaning the bathroom because it was unavailable due to repairs being done in it.
I would have to believe that CL told LE about that if it occurred.
It's important. She must have, it is in the show.
Since SIL left first, does that mean he completed those repairs?
Or said that he would be back to finish them the next day?
Does this point to Bob being attacked in the bathroom....unmade bed & no glasses..early in his day as he was going about his morning routines?

Having the doors open the day after, during the interview??????????????????
Hmmmmm. I have some thoughts on that but haven't thoroughly thought them through.

From a sociological viewpoint, it is extremely common for groups: familial, social, political, religious to adopt shared language...in this case "dark place" being a euphenism that got picked up and shared..and likely to avoid the hard words and truths...killed, homicide, murder & etc...you get my drift. Softening a harsh reality, avoiding it in denial. :facepalm:

Quite a number of pages/threads back, it was well explained how it would be possible to place a body in JeM's truck EVEN in broad daylight with very little likelihood of being observed at all.

Thank you for your kind words and compassion, Believe.

Did something happen, like the announcement that Disappeared would do a show on Bob on 3-26 or that it's airing date was released? or the forensic team did their search of the house on or around this date?
I ask because last night I read that JuM took Vicodin (an opiate) and drank alcohol (which is strictly forbidden, and she knows it). That indicated to me elevated stress and escapism. Alcohol reacts with the bipolar meds also. She had noted before that she could not and did not drink.
I would have some "slpaining to do"...but then perhaps she sought relief from physical pain, but I made note of it because it is such a no-no and is risky behavior. Something precipitated it.

Zwiel, you certainly seem on top of things to me!
I have resigned myself that it is going to take quite a while for me to even read up on what is known.
And that I can't stay up all night doing it.

It's a privilege to be a part of such an outstanding group all working to bring Bob home.

 

[zwiebel]

Son-in-law didn't finish the repairs, and, interestingly, left Bob a note saying he would be back the next day to complete them.

He never did return. Instead it was his wife who went down to the house, to change the sheets. I can't follow the logic of JuM and JeM being concerned enough about Fontelle's welfare to put new linens on the bed, but not being concerned enough to finish repairs.....I know which I'd rather have completed, if I was an elderly lady moving in.

 

[MaryNo]

Sorry, but I'm back to those sheets, AGAIN! Can't shake the feeling that they play a part in this.

For a moment, let's assume Paula is telling the truth, and she very well may be telling the truth, that she did hear Bob in the background respond positively to Jeff's going to the hardware store. That would mean they were still at the house at around 11:30 - 11:45.

Agnes stated that Bob always made his bed in all of the years she'd worked for him and Georgia.

Since we're assuming Paula's being truthful, then we assume Bob is still present during her phone call, and assuming Agnes is being truthful, the bed should already have been made at the time of this phone call. But, when Agnes goes upstairs to clean, the bed is unmade.

Jeff spent an unnecessary amount of time up there making Agnes uncomfortable.

What if Jeff was upstairs UNmaking the bed?

Obviously, someone didn't know Bob's routine. So, was there the assumption that an 81 year old man didn't bother making his bed everyday, or he wouldn't bother on the day Agnes was there? Was it unmade because there was the thought that a missing top sheet wouldn't be as noticeable on an unmade bed as on a made bed?

Because Agnes only made the bed, instead of changing and washing the bedding, Julie altruistically came down the hill, and switched it all out? Had she planned ahead of time to switch out the sheets, and he UNmade the bed for Agnes' benefit (not knowing Bob made his bed everyday?)

There is something niggling at my brain, and would like some help from all of you in pulling it out. I'd really like to brainstorm this a bit.

 

[zwiebel]

Ah, now I always thought that the bed could have been 'unmade' in a hurry, but I was thinking of a sheet or blanket being quickly pulled off the bed, to be used for........

It had never crossed my mind that it could have been an attempt at a red herring, that backfired because of Agnes. That is a really interesting take on it. It has got my mind whirring.

 

[MaryNo]

OMG I can't believe you posted this LOL

I've spent the last half hour posting on the sheets, and you posted on the sheets, too! There must be something in the air.

I love your posts, and all the work you do :rose:

Son-in-law didn't finish the repairs, and, interestingly, left Bob a note saying he would be back the next day to complete them.

He never did return. Instead it was his wife who went down to the house, to change the sheets. I can't follow the logic of JuM and JeM being concerned enough about Fontelle's welfare to put new linens on the bed, but not being concerned enough to finish repairs.....I know which I'd rather have completed, if I was an elderly lady moving in.

 

[zwiebel]

Lol. We'll have to see if we can make a near identical post at EXACTLY the same time next. That's something that's been known to happen quite a bit on this thread!

 

[suzyq211]

Sorry, but I'm back to those sheets, AGAIN! Can't shake the feeling that they play a part in this.

For a moment, let's assume Paula is telling the truth, and she very well may be telling the truth, that she did hear Bob in the background respond positively to Jeff's going to the hardware store. That would mean they were still at the house at around 11:30 - 11:45.

Agnes stated that Bob always made his bed in all of the years she'd worked for him and Georgia.

Since we're assuming Paula's being truthful, then we assume Bob is still present during her phone call, and assuming Agnes is being truthful, the bed should already have been made at the time of this phone call. But, when Agnes goes upstairs to clean, the bed is unmade.

Jeff spent an unnecessary amount of time up there making Agnes uncomfortable.

What if Jeff was upstairs UNmaking the bed?

Obviously, someone didn't know Bob's routine. So, was there the assumption that an 81 year old man didn't bother making his bed everyday, or he wouldn't bother on the day Agnes was there? Was it unmade because there was the thought that a missing top sheet wouldn't be as noticeable on an unmade bed as on a made bed?

Because Agnes only made the bed, instead of changing and washing the bedding, Julie altruistically came down the hill, and switched it all out? Had she planned ahead of time to switch out the sheets, and he UNmade the bed for Agnes' benefit (not knowing Bob made his bed everyday?)

There is something niggling at my brain, and would like some help from all of you in pulling it out. I'd really like to brainstorm this a bit.

I agree, the sheets have always been there, niggling away at many of us. I would love to be able to ask the CL if both sheets were on the bed!!

 

[zwiebel]

The slippers being neatly beside the bed are another thing - if Bob rushed out of bed without pausing to make it, I'd have thought his slippers would have been on his feet, and he would have been in pyjamas.

If he had time to get dressed........well, back we go on the carousel again.....why didn't he also have time to make his bed?

 

[believe09]

I think a discussion about the sheets is well worth having. Here is my opinion-

To me, fwiw, Agnes made the bed because it was unmade. Cleaning a house would equal leaving it tidy, and leaving Bob's bed unmade would simply have defeated the purpose of cleaning his room.

I think she didnt strip the bed, wash the sheets etc simply because she never had to make the bed before. In 10 years, Agnes didnt make the bed. It wasnt part of what she did when she cleaned.

What I think is that JuM stating she was heading down the hill to change the sheets was just what it sounds-ludicrous. She headed down the hill to participate in her own way. I do believe cleaning was on her mind and those sheets were on her mind.

They were in an untenable position-CL wasnt supposed to be there. The house wasnt supposed to have been clean already. There wasnt supposed to be a witness to things going on inside of the house.

But there was and I am so thankful.

 

[believe09]

So now I wonder about next steps. There has been national media and renewed attention (thanks to Mrs Harrod) on the local level. Law enforcement has made it clear that the focus of the investigation is the family and the motive is the fight over the trust.

On the civil front, the co conservators gave up on the fight to seal the secret agreement between themselves and AH on the terms of the loan forgiveness. The co conservators were decimated in their attempt to recover the gifts that Bob gave BL.

These next few weeks are going to be critical in the court of public opinion with regards to Bob's bio family. They have clearly dropped the ball on this opportunity to keep their father's case front and center in peoples minds-will they continue to wish the spotlight away? Will they continue to hope that all this interest and activity will die down?

Yup. That is my guess fwiw.

Maybe we can harness all of the renewed interest here and start looking at routes of travel from Placentia on a busy Monday on a hot day in Orange County. Maybe it is time for Bob to surface-I am always of the opinion that this happens when the time is right...with a little nudge of course.

 

[cloudajo]

[snipped]

I consider it wholly feasible that AH may have been instructed by his mother (or maybe his stepfather) to wait in the driveway for LE.

[snipped]

Agree. The word "orchestrator" comes to mind.

• I can’t link, but I believe JuM called Social Services both times about Bob
• JuM is the one that found the “missing” documents at the family meeting on July 26
• JuM is the one that called Fontelle to say “Daddy’s missing” and to tell her about Jeff seeing the “suspicious” black SUV
• JuM is the one that crafted the extensive “memorabilia” list
• JuM is the one that went down the hill to Bob’s the day after Bob disappeared. She didn’t go back to her home in Running Springs until Friday, July 31 (according to her post on ROTW)

 

[Opie]

Wow! That last point about JuM remaining DTH for 3 days is news to me. That would have given her a LOT of time to "work from memory" while composing the memorabilia list and also to check out a lot of other things. Very interesting info indeed. If anything at all just happened to need moved out of the house for various reasons or if the computer possibly needed any "adjustments," AH was close by to help. (rolling eyes here)

Very thought provoking post, cloudajo.

 

[believe09]

Wow! That last point about JuM remaining DTH for 3 days is news to me. That would have given her a LOT of time to "work from memory" while composing the memorabilia list and also to check out a lot of other things. Very interesting info indeed. If anything at all just happened to need moved out of the house for various reasons or if the computer possibly needed any "adjustments," AH was close by to help. (rolling eyes here)

Very thought provoking post, cloudajo.

Agreed...very thought provoking. I suspect she stayed at her son's house once Mrs Harrod arrived. Mrs Harrod arrived on Wed, they had already met with an attorney and were trying to throw her out on Thursday and then on Friday JuM headed back up the hill.

 

[believe09]

I am going to sit back and see what BL decides to do about the information claimed by RB and PB about her. Six weeks or so later, after the show was filmed, PB was reversing her position during the civil trial about whether or not there were loans outstanding for BL and how mentally plugged in her father was the last time she saw him.

If you recall, RB claimed APS determined that her father was being abused by BL but APS couldnt do anything about it. That dog dont hunt.

 

[believe09]

Bob disappeared on Monday, and the girls had already retained an atty who suggested Mrs Harrod be thrown out on the street. Another family meeting occurred one day following Mrs Harrod's return.

One Day.

 

[believe09]

While I think it is critical to focus on routes of travel from Bob's house on 7/27/09, I think it is worth pointing out again that the girls were denied by the court in their multiple attempts to gain control of the trusts between Bob's disappearance and the mediation agreement that was put together in March of 2010.

I hope that LE has all of the records regarding the trusts from July 2009 to the dates covered by the first filed audit.

I am so curious as to whether or not those trusts remained intact prior to the mediation agreement. No one should have been able to access those accounts.

Does anyone remember what went on with Mr Harrod's social security payments during that time frame?

 

[zwiebel]

A single day. In the full knowledge that if Bob returned and discovered they had tried to throw his wife out, he would never have forgiven them.

I wouldn't really query much if they had thought Bob must be dead so soon. Fontelle obviously felt something was dreadfully wrong; Bob was vulnerable without a car and glasses and cash, and it was so out of character.

What makes me so deeply suspicious is that daughters acted as though Bob was dead, whilst giving police - and the world wide web - every reason to think he had simply left, and probably didn't deserve to be found.

They had two faces then - one for the world, another for the hidden (dare I say dark?) sphere of secret agreements, attorney consultations, family meetings, insinuations and internet postings and email. Imo, they still do.

 

[zwiebel]

While I think it is critical to focus on routes of travel from Bob's house on 7/27/09, I think it is worth pointing out again that the girls were denied by the court in their multiple attempts to gain control of the trusts between Bob's disappearance and the mediation agreement that was put together in March of 2010.

I hope that LE has all of the records regarding the trusts from July 2009 to the dates covered by the first filed audit.

I am so curious as to whether or not those trusts remained intact prior to the mediation agreement. No one should have been able to access those accounts.

Does anyone remember what went on with Mr Harrod's social security payments during that time frame?

I'm sure the accounts were accessed though. Almost immediately? Wasn't a check used from Bob's account by daughters to either pay Mrs Harrod's travel expenses or for some urgent purpose? I'm sure I saw a post about that.