CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #14

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  • #1,581
Did anyone notice the check written to pay off AH's previous loan when he "refi'd" with Bob was payable to Countrywide DEMANDS. (Page 93 of AH's depo)

"Countrywide DEMANDS". Doesn't a mortgage company usually make a demand on a note when the borrow is not meeting the terms of the loan?

Sounds to me like Bob bailed out AH from another loan he defaulted on with this refi. If accurate, that's at least 3 mortage loans I count that AH 'defaulted' on.

1)Mortage to Bob included in 1999 bankruptcy mentioned in depo.
2)2006 mortgage with countrywide for 610,000
3)Recent default when the house went back to the trust.

Interesting Bob just happened to have money he wanted to invest and called AH at the same time Countrywide was likely in the foreclosure process with that mortgage. That is, if we are to believe AH's testimony Bob just came to him out of the blue with money he wanted to invest.

It's work to live within one's means. I see motive here in that the pipeline to grandpa bailing AH out of his financial woes whenever he was facing repercussions for not being able to live within his means was likely coming to an end.

I'm sure LE knows more about this financial shell game than we do. We have the depo to work with. I'm sure LE is working with a forensic accountant looking over any transactions prior to Bob's disasppearance that aren't on the up and up.

BBM

This may be true, in a way. JuM could've put the bug in Bob's ear that AH was in trouble again, and Bob stepped forward to help.

I can't help but think that the relationship between Bob and AH would be radically different than the relationship between Bob and his daughters. Bob may have willingly helped his grandson. Grandpas are like that. Besides, he may figure it's not AH's fault how he is with money...he may blame that on how he was raised by JuM. For all we know, Bob may have figured that he'd do whatever he could for AH in life, since nothing would be provided to him upon Bob's death. :twocents:
 
  • #1,582
That seems entirely feasible to me. Bob may well have expected AH's parents to provide for him in their own wills, as Bob had provided for his own children in his will. Given the size of Bob's trust, the $10,000 left to AH was just a token, I think.
 
  • #1,583
As careful with money as Bob was, I just don't see him condoning AH's spending habits. Bob's strikes me as someone who would try and instill the same careful habits he had.

If Bob was not in the least bit concerned with his kids or grandson having careless spending habits I'd think he would have had no problem handing over Georgia's share of the estate. I just can't see him passing out large sums of money like it was spare change. Especially considering AH's history with spending habits.
 
  • #1,584
As careful with money as Bob was, I just don't see him condoning AH's spending habits. Bob's strikes me as someone who would try and instill the same careful habits he had.

If Bob was not in the least bit concerned with his kids or grandson having careless spending habits I'd think he would have had no problem handing over Georgia's share of the estate. I just can't see him passing out large sums of money like it was spare change. Especially considering AH's history with spending habits.

BBM

I don't know, Cubby. This was a man who passed out $45,000...$15,000 to each daughter just to be left alone for 6 months. My impression of Bob is that he was frugal, not stingy. You know...the kind of guy who would pass up Starbucks and got to a diner that has coffee for $.95 a cup, then leave the waitress a two dollar tip. I could be wrong, but that's the way I'm reading him.

As an aside, I don't think handing over Georgia's share of the estate had a thing to do with money, or not trusting his daughters to spend it wisely. I think it had more to do with the fact that he didn't want them all up in his business, asking questions and getting on his nerves. :twocents:
 
  • #1,585
I wouldn't trust the results of any polygraph taken by Julie. Her postings show she's quite comfy with over/understatements. I can't imagine the results would be valid.

I think JuM's polygraph would be inconclusive due to the prescribed pyschotropics.

and if they were and are lawyered up, they would be advised not to take one.
 
  • #1,586
Has anyone seen any attempt to capitalise on Long Lost Love to highlight Bob's missing person's status?

Apart from Mrs Harrod's cards, I cannot find anything. Is this going to be just another missed opportunity to bring Bob home?

Maybe it's time for a new missing poster? I notice in other mp cases, posters are often re-designed every six months or so. I've just seen a fantastic one on another thread, made by a WS member.

I think getting the information about the large reward out to the general public could be helpful now. I'm a bit worried that the family exclusion on the bottom may have given the impression that any payout might be quibbled over. Does anyone know if there are any sort of legal assurances behind the reward?
 
  • #1,587
Disappeared - Long Lost Love - Full Transcript

Narrator: Her flight to California is set for Wednesday, July 29th- her one month anniversary with Bob. As her departure date approaches, Fontelle continues to talk to Bob every day.
Fontelle: I called him twice a day. I would call him in the morning and we would talk, and then I would call him in the evening every night, 10 o'clock.
...I tried to call Bob Monday evening and I didn't get an answer,


RB: He had a fear of driving on freeways, so he didn't go very far from home. Pretty much Dad would sit in his recliner and read the Wall Street Journal or watch the news.
Det. Loomis: Bob's white Camry was parked in the driveway. We gained entry into that vehicle and we went into the glove box and we found an address. ... probably 20 miles or so from Placentia. And we thought, "Okay, this is it. Bob has gone to this couple's house and this is what we're looking for."
Det. Loomis: Bob had actually brought Fontelle down to their home the day before Bob and Fontelle got married and that he had arrived in the evening. We found that very interesting because there really is no way to get to Balboa from Placentia without getting on the freeway, contrary to what the family said that he never drives the freeway.
Narrator: The fact that Bob drove so far at night suggests that he is still quite capable and his mind sharp. Detectives contact Bob's doctor to confirm.


PB: She was taking financial advantage of my father. I became aware of this when I was helping Dad with his taxes. All of the sudden, there was exorbitant amounts of money going out to her. I was very shocked.

RB: Just before Christmas after Mom passed away Dad had loaned $15,000 to this woman. One of my sisters was so suspicious of what was going on that Department of Elder Social Services was contacted and they went out and conducted an interview with Dad. They found he was being abused but that he was apparently of sound enough mind to not want to wish to pursue it.

Narrator: Josie states that she did not drive by Bob's house that day and police are able to confirm her alibi. While Josie insists she knows nothing about Bob's disappearance, his family sees a motive for her wanting him gone.

PB: I think the barber woman's motive would be to not pay back my dad for all the money that she had borrowed from him. That's the only thing I could think of.

RB: My dad would have never described himself with the "M" word. If you were to go to their house, it was humble. We would give him clothes as gifts and he would prefer to wear old things. Old, comfy favorites. He was not a materialistic man.

Narrator: Frustrated, Bob's daughters drafted a formal letter to their father, demanding that he comply with his responsibilities as trustee. But, according to them, Bob got extremely upset when he caught wind of their plan.

PB: It upset him, and it wasn't anything about asking for money or anything else. It was just asking for information that he was supposed to give us. And, it caused a problem.

Det. Radomski: Things got so complicated or heated between Bob and his daughters that he basically wrote them off for 6 months. He didn't want them to visit, he didn't want them to call. I think he was just upset that he was getting bombarded by requests regarding the trust and he's still trying to deal with his wife's death at the same time, so I think he was just overwhelmed.

PB: Once the papers were found and these articles were read aloud, everything settled back down and everyone was fine.

RB: We sat around joking and laughing about the barber and also Fontelle and teasing him about being a newlywed and- she was going to be there in a couple days.

PB: Everyone left on good terms. There was nothing that was left over and everyone was fine.

Narrator: Later that night, Fontelle spoke to Bob on the phone. According to her, he was still quite shaken by the exchange with his daughters.

Fontelle: Bob was very upset because of the meeting. It was argumentative. Roberta is always the first one he says to start arguing and causing confusion in the family.

Narrator: Fontelle says the conflict was not over the trust, instead it had to do with another announcement Bob made.

Fontelle: He told the girls that as soon as I got back from Missouri, he was going to add my name to the house, to his checking account, and also to the estate.

Narrator: But, Bob's daughters dispute that he ever said such a thing.

PB: The meeting that was held was not about Fontelle at all. She was not part of the discussion that day. Dad does not share his private or personal matters with anyone. He never had and he continued not to and that's his choice.
RB: I do not suspect anybody in my family. The fact that he disappeared the following day is strictly coincidental.
RB: In the first couple of days after Dad disappeared, we realized that Fontelle was not on any of Dad's accounts so we talked to a family law attorney and we took a copy of the trust to that attorney and we were advised of what needed to be done to free up money so we could help Fontelle out.

Fontelle: The three girls came to the house and they told me they'd been to see an attorney, and they told me that the attorney advised them to throw my 🤬🤬🤬 out in the street. Now, mind you, I'm newlywed- left everything I had. Gave up everything to come out here to be married and they're going to throw my 🤬🤬🤬 out in the street and I don't even have a home to go back to anymore.

RB: We did not kick her out. We did not tell her to leave. We told her that we were advised that we should not have let her in the house, but we didn't ask her to leave. There's no way we could have done that to her.

RB: We don't know whether to be angry or mourning. I can't help but think somehow, some way somebody he connected with was a big mistake. And I'm not talking about his wife, I'm talking about somebody very dark. You just don't expect you're ever going to go through something like this. It's an absolute horror.

Fontelle was 10:00 am phone call??

Re: Above, all of the statements I colored pink have something in common - they're dishonest, and come out of the same mouth. This daughter was speaking out of the other side of her mouth when she was at the now defunct forum, within a month, or so, of her beloved father's disappearance. One of Bob's main qualities that both daughter's agreed upon was that "Money is his God". Go through the statements above, and compare them to what we know today.
They speak about Bob's mental condition, while already knowing by the Dept. of Elder Social Services that he was of sound mind BEFORE he went missing. They deliberately lied to the police. She deliberately repeated those same lies in this show. Why?

Paula talks about having done Bob's taxes. Paula talks about Josie the Barber, and the loans Bob made to her. I want to ask her how did she know that Bob was lending money to Josie? Why would it show up on his taxes - better yet, why wouldn't a CPA be doing Bob's taxes, considering he obviously had holdings with tax loopholes, or liabilities?
Is Bob stupid enough to allow her to do his taxes if he was hiding those loans from the rest of the family? Gift tax on loans? If he were declaring that money on his taxes, then they were gifts. Which would belie the claims they were making in court. If they were loans, then they wouldn't be required to show up on his taxes. But again, why was Paula doing his taxes in the first place. I can't imagine he was filing a simple EZ form.
She claims they did not discuss Fontelle. He would never discuss his private and personal business with them - never has and never will - his choice. If that's true, why was she helping him with his taxes that should have been filed by a CPA? If he didn't have an issue with her doing his taxes, he wouldn't have an issue announcing he was going to add Fontelle to his personal accounts. She claimed her everything/everyone was fine after the meeting. It wasn't according to Fontelle. If it were he wouldn't have left Fontelle with the impression that he was still pretty upset.

In my opinion, this could be an Orient Express situation. In some way, all of them might have had a hand in it. In my opinion, it's a premeditated crime of opportunity. Bob and Fontelle's impulsive marriage that day at the courthouse . Fontelle's trip was the opportune time. Someone just didn't have time to form a proper plan. Someone, who had a very lucky day, jumped at the opportunity. The grandson knows, or has a very good idea who did it, which is why he jumped right into the fray, telling police about the meeting.
The daughter's offerings in this episode was nothing but a pack of lies/manipulation.
I'm really bugged tonight, because I think some important answers lay in the words of the daughters, and grandson. I just can't put my finger on it, but something tells me they've told us what happened.
 
  • #1,588
I always get that feeling too - that the story is right there, and I'm just not seeing it. All the doublespeak clouds the issue, and maybe that's exactly what it was intended to do.
 
  • #1,589
Okay, I have described my hypothesis of 4 motives, the primary one only concerning JeM, JuM & ARH, the others involving PB & RB, all these motives being at work at the same time.

As far as means and opportunity, JeM stands out. I personally do not believe Bob was mortally wounded in his own home. I believe that occurred at the dump site.

The CVS trip has never made sense to me, unless JeM was also picking up a prescription for himself or JuM..and paid for it separately at the pharmacy counter.

If you were going out for something to eat...wouldn't you go get take-out?

Or perhaps the reason for the CVS purchase WAS for the receipt as an alibi?
That I would believe.

And that JeM returned at noon to work on some of the things he was supposed to be working on. He would need to do this, in my mind.

He then left before the CL did and went to Home Depot and purchased materials for additional home repairs he had agreed to do. more alibi.

WHO did Bob speak to on the phone and for how long? How far is the cvs from the home?
 
  • #1,590
I think the CVS trip was for paper plates? And also, I remember someone posting - just after I'd spent ages trying to post a map of all local CVS pharmacies - that it was actually another pharmacy altogether.

I can't recollect the name now though. I can't look it up at the moment. I have some other concerns. This is the last, last time ever I send Mr Z over your way with the words 'Stop worrying, there is nothing happening over there.'

I'm still thinking about Bob though. And once I get Mr Z safely home, I'll think about Bob a lot more.
 
  • #1,591
Take care, Z!!!
 
  • #1,592
Take care, Mr Z! He's the one that thinks everyone is always nice, and he's the one over your way! I thought everything would be fine because I'd talked him out of the habit of picking up every hitchhiker, everywhere he saw one.......

I can't believe all this has happened, after I gave him such glib assurances.
 
  • #1,593
Lol. I finally got a reply. Mr Z has found a friend, is in a nice cafe playing billiards and is perfectly safe.

Back to Bob.
 
  • #1,594
I am still trying to compile my list of 'Things that were happening the day/week Bob went missing'. If anyone comes across events they may think would have stuck in people's minds, around July 27th, 2009, please let me know. Especially if they were events that might have stuck in the minds of Orange County residents.
 
  • #1,595
It was a CVS pharmacy, and the receipt was time stamped about 9:30 am.

Like the 3:02 time stamped receipt from the hardware store, neither receipt explains where JeM was coming from when he arrived at Bob's about noon to find the cleaning lady waiting.
 
  • #1,596
Wasnt there food on the CVS receipt? Donuts? BRB-I will check Dreamweaver's original post about those receipts...if I am recalling the OP correctly!
 
  • #1,597
Disappeared - Long Lost Love - Full Transcript

Narrator: Bob's own family wasn't aware of how wealthy he was until his wife, Georgia passed away.

PB: We found out when all the work had been completed by Mom and Dad's attorney, how much Dad was worth. We had no idea up until that point that it was to the extent that it was.


PB: Dad's attorney wrote us a letter and told us that Dad was the trustee and that he would be reporting to us on a regular basis, which he had not done. About the only thing he copied were bank statements. He never followed through with whatever else he was supposed to do.

RB: Dad called a meeting for July 26th. The purpose was for him, as trustee, report to us on the status of our mother's bypass trust. He was required by law to provide certain reporting and he hadn't done that yet.

Isn't it interesting Bob's daughters have never once stated exactly what Bob was supposed to report but was not doing so? What other 'reporting' was he supposed to provide other than the bank statements his daughters acknowledge he WAS providing? Their not saying leads me to believe Bob was in fact providing any and all documentation he was required to provide.


RB: In the first couple of days after Dad disappeared, we realized that Fontelle was not on any of Dad's accounts so we talked to a family law attorney and we took a copy of the trust to that attorney and we were advised of what needed to be done to free up money so we could help Fontelle out.

"In the first couple of days after Dad disappeared, we realized that Fontelle was not on any of Dad's accounts..........."

Dad's missing and instead of looking for him they beeline for the information on his bank accounts. Tell me his disappearance isn't motivated by money. BS. All they had to do was put a freeze on his accounts and look for dad. Looking for dad has never happened.
 
  • #1,598
TDW brought up another good point about take out for lunch. Based on the information about JeM only providing LE with two receipts, I think it's safe to say JeM was not coming back from lunch when he found the cleaning lady waiting outside Bob's home.

He would have had a receipt for lunch or would have been able to go back and ask for one......

45 months later we still don't know where JeM was coming from when he arrived to find the cleaning lady waiting outside for Bob.
 
  • #1,599
Thank you Believe & Cubby!

I misremembered the time on the receipt..the time you gave me fits much better.

And, yes, I thought I had read that their were donuts....
and colas?

I have some reading up to do before I go on with my theory.
 
  • #1,600
I am still trying to compile my list of 'Things that were happening the day/week Bob went missing'. If anyone comes across events they may think would have stuck in people's minds, around July 27th, 2009, please let me know. Especially if they were events that might have stuck in the minds of Orange County residents.

Zwie, one of the things that immediately came to mind for me when you asked this was the Orange County Fair is held every summer. In 2009 it was held between Friday July 10th- Sunday August 9th. It's a big deal out here in O.C.

http://www.coastmagazine.com/articles/orangecountyfair-893--.html
 
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