CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #14

[zwiebel]

Thanks, zwie. Do you know why? I asked the mods. I will make sure I have screen captured everything. I also notified all the peeps who private messaged me how to get the video off of Amazon and you tube so they can have their own copies.

It did cross my mind it might have been you.......well done my friend, well done.

 

[believe09]

All saved...

 

[believe09]

It might have been me zwie....sometimes I dont sleep well at night and the darndest things happen.

 

[believe09]

I confess that I am really really interested on how any street/road construction might have impacted routes of travel on that day. We really need another local to pop on and give us some perspective.

I just want to know if there was anything going on the morning of 7/27. I am willing to bet there wasnt. You would have to be made of steel to commit foul play and then remove evidence of the crime under the nose of a police detail or even a road construction crew.

 

[TDW59]

My mind has gone to the idea of Bob being drugged for quite awhile now.

What does one drink with donuts usually? Coffee for adults, which hot immediately dissolves a tablet and has a strong enough flavor to cover the taste of a tablet.

I believe it was a prescription tablet...first to my mind is a benzo such as xanax or a sleep tab such as ambien.
These kinds of things are very quick acting and no, would not cause Bob to vomit or to regain wakefulness for several hours.
I would expect JuM to have these sorts of prescriptions.
Maybe JeM even had one of these types of prescriptions. They are not hard to get.

For example, the statistics for the number of our population taking antidepressants is HUGE and these are often accompanied by these prescriptions.

I cannot see Bob walking out of his house without his glasses while conscious.

Benadryl would take longer...but it is OTC.

My 2 friends here wonder why we keep to the story of Bob being drug on a sheet or blanket when they feel he could have been taken out with a fireman's carry. Tho wrapping in a sheet or blanket would contain and eliminate forensic evidence.

I've only seen a brief photo of JeM and he appears a bit husky..but could not get a feel for height, weight etc.

There are only a few methods of homicide that leave very little evidence..such as asphyxiation....which could indeed be quite easy with Bob passed out from meds. ( done in home )

I am researching statistics for means of homicide and struggling with it.

This is what I have found so far (and just starting):

Men, women, and murder: gender-specific differences in rates of fatal violence and victimization.
Kellermann AL, Mercy JA.
Source
Department of Medicine, University of Tennessee, Memphis.
Abstract
To study the potential differences that distinguish homicides involving women as victims or offenders from those involving men, we analyzed Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Reports data on homicides that occurred in the United States between 1976 and 1987. Only cases that involved victims aged 15 years or older were included. Persons killed during law enforcement activity and cases in which the victim's gender was not recorded were excluded. A total of 215,273 homicides were studied, 77% of which involved male victims and 23% female victims. Although the overall risk of homicide for women was substantially lower than that of men (rate ratio [RR] = 0.27), their risk of being killed by a spouse or intimate acquaintance was higher (RR = 1.23). In contrast to men, the killing of a woman by a stranger was rare (RR = 0.18). More than twice as many women were shot and killed by their husband or intimate acquaintance than were murdered by strangers using guns, knives, or any other means. Although women comprise more than half the U.S. population, they committed only 14.7% of the homicides noted during the study interval. In contrast to men, who killed nonintimate acquaintances, strangers, or victims of undetermined relationship in 80% of cases, women killed their spouse, an intimate acquaintance, or a family member in 60% of cases. When men killed with a gun, they most commonly shot a stranger or a non-family acquaintance.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1635092

 

[TDW59]

How They Do It

Police records indicate that murder weapons change little from year to year. An exotic weapon gains publicity because of its very rarity; the booby-trapped auto or the bomb-laden suitcase are sure of headlines. An imaginative dentist became notorious when he filled a victim's cavity with slow-acting poison.

But by far the largest number of murders are committed with four "standard' weapons: hand guns, cutting instruments, blunt instruments, and - surprisingly - bare hands. Hand guns are, of course commonly revolvers or automatics; cutting instruments range from razors to switchblade knives and cleavers. The blunt instrument is a tire iron, bat, poker.

Because of its admixture of races and cultures, and its extremes of wealth, New York City supplies a rich sample of modes in murder. A study of 320 murders in 1958 showed that about half the killers used knives or other cutting instruments. They used hand guns only half as often and blunt instruments only a fourth as often. They killed with their bare hands only one time in eight. Far down the list were rifles, shotguns, poisons, and the automobile.

A persistent murderer seldom change! his modus operandi. An English killer got caught after his sixth slaying only because he extinguished each of his victims in the same way - by strangling. He was in a rut.

Why They Do It

The reasons given for murder in a courtroom are probably seldom the real ones. The police, the prosecutor, even the court, elicit only the apparent causes. The murderer himself is the last person to ask for a motive. He wants only to save his neck, if necessary by distorting the truth.

In Society and the Criminal, Sir Norwood East says, "Murder is rather frequently due to an intensely emotional situation operating suddenly upon a man who has always behaved in a perfectly normal manner except for the few seconds when the murder is committed."

Many a bridge player will understand why one perfectly normal man shot his wife dead some years ago when she led the wrong card. One serious student of murder suggests that while family life discourages suicide, its rubbing-raw from sheer intimacy may tend to encourage murder.

F. Tennyson Jesse, in Murder and Its Motives, says the true murderer is a colossal egoist - he's sure he can kill and get away with it. In his book, Areas of Psychology, F. L. Marcuse adds, "Low intelligence as a causative factor in crime has not been shown."

Jesse sets up six categories: murder for gain, revenge, elimination, jealousy, lust of killing, and from conviction. The last category covers homicide by the state - capital punishment.


http://www.all-about-forensic-psychology.com/murder-article.html

 

[TDW59]

The Perfect Crime?

But the titillating question is, how many murderers get away with it?

Only two out of three persons arrested and formally charged with murder or non-negligent manslaughter are actually convicted of either crime or even a lesser one. A man charged with murder may, in the end, turn out to be merely naughty in the eyes of the law, due to extenuating circumstances.

http://www.all-about-forensic-psychology.com/murder-article.html

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks. Some very interesting links there. Somewhere lost back in the thread, I found a study of elder abuse/homicide which I posted. I can't recall where at the moment. It basically said homicide in over 70s was very rare, and most often committed by a family member. It was broken down by gender as well, I think.

Now, where did I put it?

 

[zwiebel]

*Glad to see you back, yupikgirl. Hope you enjoyed your trip!

 

[TDW59]

IF Bob were drugged, he well could have been snoozing in the truck past the 3pm HD trip.

I need to go back and look at the time line from 3pm on.

I am working on the primary motive as JeM covering up for and protecting ARH, altho I do see the others come into play.

 

[TDW59]

Thanks. Some very interesting links there. Somewhere lost back in the thread, I found a study of elder abuse/homicide which I posted. I can't recall where at the moment. It basically said homicide in over 70s was very rare, and most often committed by a family member. It was broken down by gender as well, I think.

Now, where did I put it?

Makes sense Z. I would suspect that in the elderly, there could be a statistical bump in female perps as they comprise by a large margin the caregivers.

 

[TDW59]

so, windows of OPPORTUNITY:
10:30am-12:15 pm.

&..............

I will return to JeM's time upstairs later.

 

[Cubby]

I wonder what is going on at City-Data?

Yet again, another Robert Merle Harrod thread has been shut down.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/true...merle-harrod-placentia-ca-5.html#post29009014

There is an obvious effort to conceal information that could solve this case and bring Bob the justice he deserves.

I hope LE has added this to their list of activities obstructing the investigation into Bob's disappearance.

 

[Cubby]

My mind has gone to the idea of Bob being drugged for quite awhile now.

What does one drink with donuts usually? Coffee for adults, which hot immediately dissolves a tablet and has a strong enough flavor to cover the taste of a tablet.

I believe it was a prescription tablet...first to my mind is a benzo such as xanax or a sleep tab such as ambien.
These kinds of things are very quick acting and no, would not cause Bob to vomit or to regain wakefulness for several hours.
I would expect JuM to have these sorts of prescriptions.
Maybe JeM even had one of these types of prescriptions. They are not hard to get.

BBM. I have to respectfully disagree. Anything over the recommended dose could certainly knock Bob out much quicker and cause him to vomit. Say for example, someone poured a half bottle of liquid benedryl into Bob's drink. I'd expect that to cause Bob to vomit.

Additionally, we don't know what type of medication Bob may have been on, if any, and how his prescribed medicines might interact with something he may have been slipped. There are plenty of combinations of medicines which can not be taken together without causing dangerous situations.

My sons Godmom recently had one of those types of situations. Thank God she called the pharmicist first, who told her NOT to take the other OTC medicine or it could induce cardiac arrest with the prescribed medicine she takes and that she could be dead before paramedics arrived.

For those reasons, I don't think we can say Bob would not have vomited.

And then of course, he could have literally fallen and hit his head on something. I've always suspected a fall due to the secrecy surrounding the odd jobs/handy man work done in the house that day.

 

[Cubby]

IF Bob were drugged, he well could have been snoozing in the truck past the 3pm HD trip.

I need to go back and look at the time line from 3pm on.

I am working on the primary motive as JeM covering up for and protecting ARH, altho I do see the others come into play.

I don't think Bob would have survived sleeping in the truck. It was in the upper 80's the day of his disappearance. He would have succumbed to the heat in the car if he were placed in the car alive and left there for several hours. Also, we know Det. Loomis stated there was no evidece found that Bob was transported deceased in the truck, or died in the truck.

The timeline from 3pm on, with regards to when Bob went missing, is a red herring imo. I believe he was disposed of by the time JeM arrived about noon to find the cleaning lady waiting outside Bob's home.

 

[TDW59]

QUOTE: BBM. I have to respectfully disagree. Anything over the recommended dose could certainly knock Bob out much quicker and cause him to vomit. Say for example, someone poured a half bottle of liquid benedryl into Bob's drink. I'd expect that to cause Bob to vomit. UNQUOTE

Thank you.

agreed, the sound of it makes me feel sick..ugh.

I didn't mean an overdosage of the drugs I suggested.
xanax is the same class of drugs that they give you to help you sleep in the hospital..lol, sometimes waking you to give it to you.
They ARE very dangerous mixed with alcohol or opiates (in higher doses)
A low dose to someone who has no tolerance is very powerful...esp to the elderly.
They are contradicted with renal impairment or respiratory depression.
Even tho the web lists depression as an illness that may contradict use, in actual practice they are used very, very frequently in the depressed.

Under the influence of these a fall would be highly plausible.

I have also wondered if Bob might not have fallen as a result of an argument...pushed or punched and fell hitting his head. The scalp does bleed profusely.

I had wondered if Bob may have excused himself as feeling unwell and gone back to bed..being extremely and uncontrollably drowsy.

Ca Exile said that he napped as he liked...in his chair, but with SIL there he may not have felt comfortable sleeping in his chair or wanted the privacy of his bedroom?
(unmade bed).

I thought that the LE ruled out the truck also until Cloudajo posted other information...regarding a case where a man had transported more than one deceased woman, the forensics came up naught and it wasn't until his confession that it came to light he did use the vehicle. I am afraid I did not follow the link to find out how this was done.

What is your theory for how Bob was removed?

Another thought to throw out there...the CL says that SIL left before she did. She doesn't give a time. Could it have been at 1:30 pm or etc???

I don't know what happened to Bob. I am just looking for hypotheses that fit with the very little we do know and trying to factor in probabilities.

Do you think Bob fell in the bathroom??

I just don't think Bob would be given Benadryl if more effective prescriptions were available...and their effects completely predictable....which is to go into a deep sleep. But this is just my opinion..and you know what they say about those

There are so few clues known to us....wouldn't we like to know what LE meant when they said there were twists in this case?

Could Bob have been seatbelted into the passenger seat????????????? I wonder because LE said they would expect to find Bob's DNA in the truck?

FWIW...just looked this up (along with the others)
benadryl overdose:
Symptoms of a Benadryl overdose include extreme sleepiness, confusion, weakness, ringing in the ears, blurred vision, large pupils, dry mouth, flushing, fever, shaking, insomnia, hallucinations, and possibly seizures.
http://www.drugs.com/benadryl.html

that is the site my dr refers me to.

 

[deca]

Although I am not married to the fact that Bob was drugged, it just happens to meet my "easiest way to get someone out of the house that doesn't want to go" scenario.

I hate to sound like some creepy freak, but I would want to get the person out of the house BEFORE they died (no evidence!). I would also want them to get out of the house on their own two feet. Unless JeM pulled a Casey Anthony (pulling car into garage for privacy) I wouldn't want to attract attention by carrying someone out to a car.

So I imagine that if I could make victim sick enough to want to go to the ER or loopy enough that you can convince them to get in the car, that would be the best scenario. Then maybe the victim doses or passed out in the car until you bring your car around to some cliff area (easy in SoCal) help them out, push them off (or knock them with a hammer or something) then push them off.

Anyway, I guess a big stumbling block here is IF Bob passed in the house, wouldn't there be evidence (urine, feces, blood, vomit?). Then there would also be decomp in the car right? Unless someone else's car was used to transport? I would love for someone with some crime scene knowledge to address this.
I just don't know. Honestly, how could this be the "perfect crime" when it seems so obvious that something is fishy?:moo:

I think someone upthread mentioned that perhaps Bob was told there was some sort of emergency with another family member and that is what got him out of the house?

 

[Cubby]

IDK if Bob fell in the bathroom. I do think it is possible he attempted to take refuge from his attacker in the bathroom. I suspect some of the home repairs were due to an attack which occured in Bob's home.

As for how he was transported, I've considered the possibility of rubber or plastic bed/floor liners in JeM's car that were disposed of with Bob. JeM and/or AH renting a vehicle and transporting Bob in a rented vehicle. Whether that be a truck or van from HD, or vehicle from a car rental agency such as Enterprise.....

As for the little we know, what the daughters try to conceal or will not reveal stands out tremendously, imo. Look there. Things are 'hidden' for a reason.

 

[Cubby]

Also, not all falls are open head wounds with a lot of blood. I think it is also possible a closed head wound may have occured in Bob's case.

 

[Cubby]

Although I am not married to the fact that Bob was drugged, it just happens to meet my "easiest way to get someone out of the house that doesn't want to go" scenario.

I hate to sound like some creepy freak, but I would want to get the person out of the house BEFORE they died (no evidence!). I would also want them to get out of the house on their own two feet. Unless JeM pulled a Casey Anthony (pulling car into garage for privacy) I wouldn't want to attract attention by carrying someone out to a car.

So I imagine that if I could make victim sick enough to want to go to the ER or loopy enough that you can convince them to get in the car, that would be the best scenario. Then maybe the victim doses or passed out in the car until you bring your car around to some cliff area (easy in SoCal) help them out, push them off (or knock them with a hammer or something) then push them off.

Anyway, I guess a big stumbling block here is IF Bob passed in the house, wouldn't there be evidence (urine, feces, blood, vomit?). Then there would also be decomp in the car right? Unless someone else's car was used to transport? I would love for someone with some crime scene knowledge to address this.
I just don't know. Honestly, how could this be the "perfect crime" when it seems so obvious that something is fishy?:moo:

I think someone upthread mentioned that perhaps Bob was told there was some sort of emergency with another family member and that is what got him out of the house?

BBM. If Bob was lured from the home after being told there was some sort of emergency, I think he'd insist on leaving a key in the mail box for the housekeeper. The person luring him out of the house would have raised red flags by putting up a stink about leaving a key...... Which would leave them in the position of having the key removed by the time of the housekeepers arrival. Since the housekeeper was expected the following day, I don't think anyone would know she would be arriving and looking for a key......

If the housekeeper was expected, perhaps someone would have deliberately left a key for her to make it appear as if Bob did willingly leave. Or chosen not to return that day and just left the housekeeper to be the one to discover Bob missing.