CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #15

[shana]

I'm sure that no one on this forum is required to post links to qualify their questions to be answered.

When you posted with such authority, I was misled into believing you know something other than what we've been shown by law enforcement, and media. My mistake.

Such authority is in the eye of the beholder. It was not my intention to imply other than my words state. If you so inferred, that is your choice.

Links may not be required, but they're requested often enough, especially of persons who might dare suggest theories other than those promoted here.

Still waiting for your link.

jmo

 

[MaryNo]

Does anyone know what time mail was delivered in that neighborhood back then? It might be different than what's going on now.

 

[shana]

Does anyone know what time mail was delivered in that neighborhood back then? It might be different than what's going on now.

Yes, most assuredly!

Even if I think I know when the mail delivery will occur at my home in SoCA, it varies from day-to-day, one month to the next, and over all the years too.

Just in the past 2 years, it used to be late afternoon (one parameter)...lately more around noonish (second parameter)...and prior to that, early morning (yet another param).

I'm not sure that the time could be discerned with any certainty, although perhaps others on the street (if asked back then) could have given parameters within, say, a 2-hr time span.

Just curious...why do you ask?

jmo

 

[TDW59]

MOO

IF Bob were so tight with a dollar that he did not purchase and pay for caller ID, would the alleged 11:30 phone call come up with an identification as private?

FWIW, in Florida we had to speak the "I dos" in order to get our license notarized.

I do think that the rest of the deposition is relevant, as are the rest of the documentation.

Regretably, I am much to far away geographically to go to the courthouse and do a proper search with due diligence.

 

[MaryNo]

I don't believe this was an error or an accident. I theorize this was done to draw attention away from the owners of a black SUV. They cleared this family from any involvement. Even though they were cleared, the family continues to make statements (Disappeared) making it appear they are involved due to the money Bob gave them as a gift. (Decided in court to be gifts)

http://www.ocregister.com/news/-214111--.html

From the article:
"They have worked to nail down alibis for the people around him. The younger woman with whom Bob had a friendship has a solid alibi."

Bourne,
There is an incredible and vast amount of information in the threads.

The ID program is not the definitive source, indeed it does contain errors, i.e.
JeM reported that he saw a black vehicle drive slowly up and down the street, the program shows a white SUV.

 

[zwiebel]

Wow this thread is moving fast. The newer poster that mentioned someone might have offered to take Bob to the banks might have something. Forgive me for asking: was AH's locations that morning confirmed?

Second question: besides Bob's kids, where there any other relatives anticipating money?

Lastly: from the previous page: AH getting only $10k. In my family and in many of my friend's families- grandkids get token amounts. A nice piece of jewelry or a little cash. Sometimes NOTHING. Not because grandpa didn't love them- but because there is this idea that the kids get the money and when the kids die, the grandkids will then get it.

As far as I know, we have never had any information about where AH was the Monday Bob went missing, up until he appeared at the house around 9.30pm that night for the welfare check.

I haven't seen any info either, about other relatives who might have expected to be left something. Daughters PB and RB both have former husbands, but I can't imagine they'd have expected anything, having 'left the family', so to speak. Bob had one sister, but again I wouldn't imagine she or any family she might have would have expected an inheritance, jmo.

I understand about the token gifts for granchildren, but I think the heated family meeting may have also been when grandson's mom first found out Bob hadn't named her as a trustee for the estate. That could have meant a combination of bad news for grandson AH and his parents that night; Bob was now married to a wife who might affect/delay daughter JuM's inheritance, grandson had only been left $10k, and even when they could inherit, it would be the other two sisters in charge of everything.

 

[shana]

I don't believe this was an error or an accident. I theorize this was done to draw attention away from the owners of a black SUV. They cleared this family from any involvement. Even though they were cleared, the family continues to make statements (Disappeared) making it appear they are involved due to the money Bob gave them as a gift. (Decided in court to be gifts)

http://www.ocregister.com/news/-214111--.html

From the article:
"They have worked to nail down alibis for the people around him. The younger woman with whom Bob had a friendship has a solid alibi."

Are you theorizing that the Disappeared episode was edited with prejudice to show a white SUV instead of a black one, and for the purpose you postulate? And this, after a year in post-production? What about legal consequences (liabilities) for such alterations?

Do you wonder also what else might not be accurate in the program?

LE has not cleared anyone, let alone the BL's family.

Josie may have had an alibi that checked-out, but there is no confirmation that any of her family members did; furthermore, no one has yet been officially cleared in this case, even those who could be looked-at as ancillary.

Finally, did you have a good look at Josie at Georgia's memorial when her cremains were tossed at-sea? That photo is more than disturbing, and it indicates an inappropriate relationship at best.

That she 'won' by default in her court case means little to me. I know this 'win' is trumpted here. I do not view it as such, just because the Harrod family could not produce evidence of what cash or in-kind financial transactions had transpired. Even IF they could be construed as gifts by the recipient, they added-up to a lot of money that someone might have not wanted to payback, especially when there would be no more coming. Yeah, just $50k+, and so, a small fish in the broader net that was cast after this man went missing.

It is truly all about the money; but unlike the think here, I deviate and look to other possibilities. That, to me, is what real sleuthing is about.

jmo

 

[shana]

As far as I know, we have never had any information about where AH was the Monday Bob went missing, up until he appeared at the house around 9.30pm that night for the welfare check.

[snipped w/ respect]

Do we have any information about where RB or PB were on that day? If we did, and if their whereabouts were confirmed as allegedly those of the BL were, would these 2 daughters at least be removed from speculation accordingly?

Think about it...I know I do!

jmo

 

[zwiebel]

Enlarged and BBM: Loophole!!!!!!

Your 'shouting' reminds me of Mr Z at our wedding. He was so excited he said 'yes' instead of I do, and when the registrar gently tried to guide him to say the right words he panicked and just repeated 'yes, yes, YES!', louder and louder.

I tease him sometimes about that loophole and he shuts me up by saying we'll have to have another wedding - I'm not a great fan of 'big events'.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

I would not be so sure that LE was granted any approval status on the Disappeared episode; in fact, I highly doubt it, based on errors contained within the program.

In addition to filmed interviews having been clipped for the production, and most left on the cutting-room floor, there is the matter of context. What questions were posed to those who answered?

I recognize that a dialog can be snipped for its responses. Without knowing the questions, viewers are not getting the complete story. Instead, they are treated to watching the impact of those snippets placed in the script. The film editor worked at the direction of the producers, and surely they wanted to bring home to I.D. a drama that would rate well.

What about responses from others who chose not to appear?

Also of note: Agnes did NOT say she arrived at noon but instead the narrator did. Fact check!

jmo

They chose not to respond by choosing not to appear?

 

[MaryNo]

The floating timeline:

Police said Fontelle last spoke with Bob Sunday night.

Jeff states he arrived at around 9:30. So, by reasoning, Agnes either spoke with Bob very early Monday morning, or before Monday (Disappeared) She states Bob asked her to come Monday, instead of Tuesday, and that Jeff IS coming - not Jeff is here.

There's a call at 10:00. By deduction, it was neither Agnes, or Fontelle.

Tuesday, Julie posts on Rim Of The World that her father is missing. He's been missing for 28 hours. That puts Bob as having gone missing at 10:00 Monday morning, which is shortly after Jeff arrived at Bob's house.

BUT, Paula corrects her phone call timeline to 11:45 due to her number showing up private - she knows that's her call on the caller ID or phone records. She says that Bob responds favorably. She called her father's house phone, Jeff answers, she speaks to Jeff - not Bob, and never speaks to Bob about whatever matter she called to discuss.

So, possibly Julie is wrong about what time Bob goes missing, because Paula can prove when she called - up to the individual as to whether or not it's believable that she heard Bob in the background. One would imagine that there would have been some kind of discussion about this when talking to police, or discussing where Bob could have possibly gone, and when. It doesn't appear that they communicated well on this issue.

At some time Jeff goes to CVS, and Home Depot. Possibly, he made both trips before 11:45, and after 10:00. Which would leave 11:45 - 2:40 pm for Bob to disappear.

Jeff made a second trip to Home Depot, stating he left approx. 2:40 pm, returning to Bob's approx. 3:30. Bob was gone.

However, the police flyer states Bob was last seen at 11:00 (before Paula called - she first stated she called at 11:30, change it to 11:45, but both times are after the 11:00 time on flyer), and that Jeff arrived from the hardware store at 1:00 pm, and Bob was gone.
http://placentia.org/index.aspx?NID=129 and http://placentia.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/102

Agnes arrives 15 mins. or so before Jeff gets back from a Home Depot visit. Which visit is being discussed? Is this the first visit? Or the second? If we go by the police flyer, we assume she got there between 12 and 1:00. A link to a good source clarifying this would be great! "Disappeared" states she arrived around noon, which would tend to lean towards her arrival occurring during the 1st Home Depot visit.

If it is the second trip, we assume she arrived between 2:40 and 3:30. There is sort of a blurring of the story for me at this juncture. I can't find anything that proves which Home Depot visit it is that's being discussed. We have learned that Jeff is telling the truth about the time of his 2nd Home Depot visit, because he has the receipt proving his statement.

"Disappeared" Rad. states there are gaps of time in which something could have happened.

Jeff states he locked up the house, and left at 6:00 pm.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/-214111--.html

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

My post was jmo as I would expect yours is too. As well, I am not suggesting you adjust your theories OR your timelines either, based upon what I offer for consideration.

That I find errors in the program is my prerogative after having researched the case extensively.

Fact: The narrator said Agnes arrived at noon. If you can find a source to confirm, please link it.

jmo

Daughter JuM seems to be confirming it in this ktl com3 video link here; 'Maybe one? Noon?'

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only

 

[shana]

As far as I know, we have never had any information about where AH was the Monday Bob went missing, up until he appeared at the house around 9.30pm that night for the welfare check.

I would think LE knows, but hasn't revealed. AH was gainfully employed at the time.

I haven't seen any info either, about other relatives who might have expected to be left something. Daughters PB and RB both have former husbands, but I can't imagine they'd have expected anything, having 'left the family', so to speak. Bob had one sister, but again I wouldn't imagine she or any family she might have would have expected an inheritance, jmo.

The Trust was clear with regard to beneficiaries.

I understand about the token gifts for granchildren, but I think the heated family meeting may have also been when grandson's mom first found out Bob hadn't named her as a trustee for the estate. That could have meant a combination of bad news for grandson AH and his parents that night; Bob was now married to a wife who might affect/delay daughter JuM's inheritance, grandson had only been left $10k, and even when they could inherit, it would be the other two sisters in charge of everything.

The tasks of a Trustee are dictated/limited by law and compensated in accordance with same. I doubt Julie would have been sorry that she didn't have to deal with the hassle of it all. She was not versed in accounting as were her sisters who were designated with the task by their father.

jmo

 

[zwiebel]

Do we have any information about where RB or PB were on that day? If we did, and if their whereabouts were confirmed as allegedly those of the BL were, would these 2 daughters at least be removed from speculation accordingly?

Think about it...I know I do!

jmo

We don't seem to have any info about where any family members were that day, except son-in-law (partially) and Mrs Harrod. I find that strange, myself - given all the info that has been put out (in various shapes and forms) about other matters to do with Bob.

It does appear to me that some members of Bob's family, despite having had ample opportunities, have deliberately chosen to avoid any discussion of events just before, during and after his disappearance. And some, like AH and son-in-law, seem to have avoided talking about Bob at all.

It has been most unhelpful in highlighting his case, imo.

 

[Cubby]

MOO

IF Bob were so tight with a dollar that he did not purchase and pay for caller ID, would the alleged 11:30 phone call come up with an identification as private?

FWIW, in Florida we had to speak the "I dos" in order to get our license notarized.

I do think that the rest of the deposition is relevant, as are the rest of the documentation.

Regretably, I am much to far away geographically to go to the courthouse and do a proper search with due diligence.

It was long distance Bob would not pay for. Today and in the last several years, I don't know of any phone service provider that does not include caller id in a basic package. Even cheap 14 dollar phones from Walmart include caller id capacity these days.

 

[Cubby]

We don't seem to have any info about where any family members were that day, except son-in-law (partially) and Mrs Harrod. I find that strange, myself - given all the info that has been put out (in various shapes and forms) about other matters to do with Bob.

It does appear to me that some members of Bob's family, despite having had ample opportunities, have deliberately chosen to avoid any discussion of events just before, during and after his disappearance. And some, like AH and son-in-law, seem to have avoided talking about Bob at all.

It has been most unhelpful in highlighting his case, imo.

BBM. Why choose not to participate if you have no involvement?

Seriously, we'd have to consider JeM was covering for the 'real perp' and allowing his son and his wife to go through emotional torture because ??? And this would serve what beneficial purpose for JeM, JuM and AH?

Their silence speaks volumes.

 

[Cubby]

Agnes arrived during the first alleged trip to HD. As of now, there is no evidence JeM made more than one trip to HD. Having only been able to provide LE with one reciept and Det. Radomski's comment about their still being a window of opportunity for something to go wrong indicates not all of JeM's time was accounted for.

Personally, I believe he only made one trip to HD and that being one made after Agnes arrived because he knew he'd be questioned about his time and he felt he needed a reciept.

Additionally, his response to Agnes when he pulled up and she told him Bob was not answering the door was odd. All he kept asking was 'are you supposed to be here today'? He doesn't mention any concern about Bob not being there, just concern about whether Agnes was supposed to be there. It's very odd his response wasn't something like, what do you mean Bob isn't here? He was here when I left? But that is NOT how JeM responded.

 

[tamild]

It was long distance Bob would not pay for. Today and in the last several years, I don't know of any phone service provider that does not include caller id in a basic package. Even cheap 14 dollar phones from Walmart include caller id capacity these days.

FWIW, up until a few months ago I had a standard subscriber line with no features and no long distance. It's not something the phone company advertised or even offered to people but it is available if you ask. Even with taxes and fees, it's about $20 cheaper than their advertised basic service. I wouldn't be surprised if our frugal friend Bob did ask

 

[MaryNo]

Zweibel, thank you so much for the "Agnes Timeline" link
:rose:

 

[MaryNo]

The floating timeline: I edited my original to include Zweibel's "Agnes Timeline" link.

Police said Fontelle last spoke with Bob Sunday night.

Jeff states he arrived at around 9:30. So, by reasoning, Agnes either spoke with Bob very early Monday morning, or before Monday (Disappeared) They agree to Agnes coming Monday, instead of Tuesday, and Bob tells her that Jeff IS coming - not Jeff is here.

There's a call at 10:00. By deduction, it was neither Agnes, or Fontelle.

Tuesday, Julie posts on Rim Of The World that her father is missing. He's been missing for 28 hours. That puts Bob as having gone missing at 10:00 Monday morning, which is shortly after Jeff arrived at Bob's house.

BUT, Paula corrects her phone call timeline to 11:45 due to her number showing up private - she knows that's her call on the caller ID or phone records. She called her father's house phone. Bob answers. She hears Jeff in background mention going to the hardware store, and Bob responding favorably.

So, possibly Julie is wrong about what time Bob goes missing, because Paula can prove when she called. One would imagine that there would have been some kind of discussion about this when talking to police, or discussing where Bob could have possibly gone, and when. It doesn't appear that they communicated well on this issue.

At some time Jeff goes to CVS, and Home Depot. Possibly, he made both trips before 11:45, and after 10:00. Which would leave 11:45 - 2:40 pm for Bob to disappear.

Jeff made a second trip to Home Depot, stating he left approx. 2:40 pm, returning to Bob's approx. 3:30. Bob was gone. Police have indicated Jeff has a receipt showing "3:04" time stamp. Pretty solid alibi for this timeline.

However, the police flyer states Bob was last seen at 11:00 (before Paula called - she first stated she called at 11:30, change it to 11:45, but both times are after the 11:00 time on flyer), and that Jeff arrived from the hardware store at 1:00 pm, and Bob was gone.
http://placentia.org/index.aspx?NID=129 and http://placentia.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/102

Agnes arrives 15 mins. or so before Jeff gets back from a Home Depot visit. Which visit is being discussed? Is this the first visit? Or the second? If we go by the police flyer, we assume she got there between 12 and 1:00. A link to a good source clarifying this would be great! "Disappeared" states she arrived around noon, which would tend to lean towards her arrival occurring during the 1st Home Depot visit. At the following link, Julie gives her nod to the 12 - 1:00 timeline for Agnes.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only

If it is the second trip, we assume she arrived between 2:40 and 3:30. There is sort of a blurring of the story for me at this juncture. I can't find anything that proves which Home Depot visit it is that's being discussed. We have learned that Jeff is telling the truth about the time of his 2nd Home Depot visit, because he has the receipt proving his statement.

"Disappeared" Rad. states there are gaps of time in which something could have happened.

Jeff states he locked up the house, and left at 6:00 pm.
http://www.ocregister.com/news/-214111--.html