CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #15

[zwiebel]

I'm lost. What sworn statement?

 

[zwiebel]

Got it, answered my own question. Bottom of second page, this document:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21654&d=1334787501

 

[zwiebel]

'Paula testified that when she met her father four days before he disappeared...'

That does make it sound as though she'd missed out the family meeting on the night before Bob disappeared.

 

[zwiebel]

Hang on, this doesn't make sense. We have RB in this article here, in October 2009, openly discussing the meeting which she and her two sisters attended on a Sunday. Bob disappeared the next day, Monday 27th July.

http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-bob-police-2598739-fontelle-michaels?

Then we have sister PB testifying more than two years later, April 2012 that she last saw her Dad four days before he disappeared, when he was of sound mind?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21654&d=1334787501

She doesn't actually say 'last' though. Is there wriggle room there?

 

[TDW59]

huh. Sounds like she saw him twice...first time 4 days earlier and he was of sound mind, then again the afternoon before his disappearance and in that short time span, he lost his mind? right.
Both visits are about Bob's money and who he chose to share it with.

I really think the sisters step in to buffer JuM because she decompensates, a psych term, but it means she loses her ability to function and handle things. We've seen plenty of her poor impulse control, mood lability, & acting out.
I think they step in to prevent her from sticking her foot too far down her mouth thus they manage the official contacts and etc as they are more rational.
It's bad for everyone when she goes off the rails.
NO stigma intended!!
BP does not cause one to lose their morals. That would be a personal character defect.
But I do think the BP has a lot to do with why things are handed off to the sisters.

 

[zwiebel]

That's an interesting little timeline there. JuM was supposed to be the most frequent visitor, but that was only about once a week.

So I think you are right that PB seeing Bob on Thursday, then again on Sunday, would have been about money and financial arrangements. If we go back a bit then to RB's awful letter and the reports of elder abuse, it all begins to look like sheer desperation to get hold of Bob's money before Fontelle has a chance to really settle in as his wife.

I wonder if AH's last visit to Bob had something to do with money as well?

 

[MaryNo]

Where is the proof/record that Paula was there?

We take Roberta's word for the way the meeting went down? She also says the meeting didn't get heated. We know from Fontelle that not only was Bob upset, but he was VERY upset when she spoke to him Sunday night. I believe Fontelle. Bob speaks to us through her. Does he list all 3 daughters as having been there when he talks to her? Or does he highlight the part that pizzed him off?

When Paula was there Thurs. or Fri. why didn't she just pick up the papers that they, supposedly, went there Sunday to pick up? Paula, who's been all up in Bob's business would have known where they were. Yet, Sunday night, it's Julie who helps Bob find the "missing papers".

That can't be right, can it? PB was at the heated family meeting, and that was the day before Bob disappeared.

Oops! Right, Paula was at the family meeting.

Respectfully snipped by me

huh. Sounds like she saw him twice...first time 4 days earlier and he was of sound mind, then again the afternoon before his disappearance and in that short time span, he lost his mind? right.
Both visits are about Bob's money and who he chose to share it with.

 

[MaryNo]

Yes. I think she has some 'splainin' to do ...

Also, when a claim of abuse is charged with the county; many states have a 72 hour max to get to the "victim's" home to check it out. If that is/was true in CA, and they showed up Thurs after Fontelle returned, then wouldn't the report have had to have been filed Mon. or Tues.? If that is/was true, what would have been the point of reporting a missing person after the fact?

Yes, at a minimum Paula's sworn statement about the last time she saw Bob could be problematic for her. The natural question is why avoid mention of the family meeting? Right now her sworn statement is out there and I wonder if it also conflicts with her statement to LE?

She's got some trouble for sure.

 

[Oriah]

To answer the question upthread re: a ruote of travel from PLacentia to Coyote Canyon and coordinates, here goes (I actually had it in my notes from way back):
Bear in mind these are rough coords, depending on which route you take but this one fits the timeline.
Beginning in Placentia (33.53.05.48N/117.52.50.88W) onto 60 to Riverside.
Bear E at (34.01.09.13N/117.4902.09W) the Pomona Freeway, passing Chino to the S.
At roughly (34.01.30.01N/117.33.35.79W) you'd hop on 15N, passing Racho Cucamonga to your W.
From there you'd continue N until turning right on Cherry Ave (34.09.05.73N/117.28.54.49W)
At about that point there is a pull off there with a 'view.'
You'd then continue on to Duncan Canyon to arrive at Coyote Canyon (34.09.56.67N/117.28.20.27W).

From there, quite frankly, it is a morass of trails, both hiking, drivable, animal- all types of foliage and a ton of space.

Does this help at all?
I will copy and paste in the SAR thread.

 

[believe09]

Paula talks in Disappeared about her presence at the family meeting. The one where folks were "quick to temper." She also posted on IS that she was there and everyone left on good terms.

She puts herself there. I bet she did in her statement to LE as well.

 

[believe09]

To answer the question upthread re: a ruote of travel from PLacentia to Coyote Canyon and coordinates, here goes (I actually had it in my notes from way back):
Bear in mind these are rough coords, depending on which route you take but this one fits the timeline.
Beginning in Placentia (33.53.05.48N/117.52.50.88W) onto 60 to Riverside.
Bear E at (34.01.09.13N/117.4902.09W) the Pomona Freeway, passing Chino to the S.
At roughly (34.01.30.01N/117.33.35.79W) you'd hop on 15N, passing Racho Cucamonga to your W.
From there you'd continue N until turning right on Cherry Ave (34.09.05.73N/117.28.54.49W)
At about that point there is a pull off there with a 'view.'
You'd then continue on to Duncan Canyon to arrive at Coyote Canyon (34.09.56.67N/117.28.20.27W).

From there, quite frankly, it is a morass of trails, both hiking, drivable, animal- all types of foliage and a ton of space.

Does this help at all?
I will copy and paste in the SAR thread.

OK- sounds like a possible location.

 

[MaryNo]

Yep, I remember well.

Her statement to law enforcement versus her sworn statement should be grounds for a trip to Radomski's office for a little chat, at the very least, do we agree? She's one I'd focus on to sing like a canary

Paula talks in Disappeared about her presence at the family meeting. The one where folks were "quick to temper." She also posted on IS that she was there and everyone left on good terms.

She puts herself there. I bet she did in her statement to LE as well.

 

[deca]

I am sure Fontelle gave the details to LE and LE are keeping it close to the vest-- but when she spoke with Bob after the heated meeting he must have given her details. Like: who said what and what their problem was rather than "I am super pissed at my brats right now."

Yeah, we have all been told that the kids weren't happy that Bob didn't fill out the paperwork/ wasn't handling Georgia's trust appropriately, blah blah blah. But something drastic happened that Sunday that made Bob go from annoyed and frustrated to really mad.

Did they ask to be put in charge of his finances? Asked to be put on his accounts to supervise his spending? Was it revealed that AH was up to no good? Did they ask for Geogia's "half" of the money?

And I highly doubt that everyone left on good terms if Bob was still that angry the next day. Maybe they left civilly (like no punching each other) but they couldn't have left on GOOD terms.

 

[believe09]

I dont know if we know what Bob's state of mind was on 7/27/09. His daughter PB, who has impeached herself regarding her recollections apparently, claims she made a call to him and that "it appeared" he had received several calls that morning. It is her "affirmative response" phone call. That is the only statement I recall from what we have read of that morning that seems to give an indication of what Bob was like at that moment.

The only reason I bring up that she seems to have impeached herself regarding the events surrounding Bob's disappearance is that it seems logical to me to question her veracity when it comes to the morning of his disappearance. The call didnt make much sense to me anyway, but jmvho.

It is my speculation that Bob was hopping made after the family meeting and that he may very well have bent JeM's ear regarding his frustration.

What if the around 10AM call was an outgoing call to someone?

 

[MaryNo]

You are an Angel, and I appreciate your looking into this. I'm ready to play around with this :rose:

To answer the question upthread re: a ruote of travel from PLacentia to Coyote Canyon and coordinates, here goes (I actually had it in my notes from way back):
Bear in mind these are rough coords, depending on which route you take but this one fits the timeline.
Beginning in Placentia (33.53.05.48N/117.52.50.88W) onto 60 to Riverside.
Bear E at (34.01.09.13N/117.4902.09W) the Pomona Freeway, passing Chino to the S.
At roughly (34.01.30.01N/117.33.35.79W) you'd hop on 15N, passing Racho Cucamonga to your W.
From there you'd continue N until turning right on Cherry Ave (34.09.05.73N/117.28.54.49W)
At about that point there is a pull off there with a 'view.'
You'd then continue on to Duncan Canyon to arrive at Coyote Canyon (34.09.56.67N/117.28.20.27W).

From there, quite frankly, it is a morass of trails, both hiking, drivable, animal- all types of foliage and a ton of space.

Does this help at all?
I will copy and paste in the SAR thread.

 

[zwiebel]

To be perfectly honest, all those co-ordinates above scare me silly. I console myself a little with the thought that it was only a single human being who did this to Bob (imo).

Therefore, it's highly possible - even probable - that all it will take is a single human being to bring him home.

With maybe a bit of help from a man's best friend or two.

People driving, walking, hiking and biking in the natural areas around Placentia, PLEASE look out for Bob. And don't forget there is a $50,000 reward to be claimed if you find him.

 

[believe09]

Good morning Mr Harrod-I hope your time to come home is fast approaching.

 

[cloudajo]

I dont know if we know what Bob's state of mind was on 7/27/09. His daughter PB, who has impeached herself regarding her recollections apparently, claims she made a call to him and that "it appeared" he had received several calls that morning. It is her "affirmative response" phone call. That is the only statement I recall from what we have read of that morning that seems to give an indication of what Bob was like at that moment.

The only reason I bring up that she seems to have impeached herself regarding the events surrounding Bob's disappearance is that it seems logical to me to question her veracity when it comes to the morning of his disappearance. The call didnt make much sense to me anyway, but jmvho.

It is my speculation that Bob was hopping made after the family meeting and that he may very well have bent JeM's ear regarding his frustration.

What if the around 10AM call was an outgoing call to someone?

Here is the other reference from the NAMUS Case Report - I believe PB entered this data. She said Bob “seemed in good spirits.” BBM.

He was at home and seemed in good spirits when I last spoke to him somewhere between 11 a.m. - 12pm. His son-in-law was there doing odd jobs as Dads new wife was returning from Missouri on Wed. 7/29/09. Heard son-in-law say he was going to the hardware store. When he returned the housekeeper was waiting outside and Dad was gone. He did NOT take his car, but did have his keys and wallet. No contact or word has been heard from since.

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/case_report_html/2706

Also, RB posted on another forum in Sep 2010 that both PB and JuM called Bob the day he disappeared. If she’s saying PB is the call at 11:45 below, then she’s saying JuM called Bob before 11:45. I don’t know if these calls were really made or not.

Sep 30, 2010 - RB

The police have not revealed the phone records but each of my sisters said called Dad early that day, the latest of their two calls was around 11:45, as that call was completed just before noon. Dad gave my sister the impression that he had received a number of calls that morning but, I know Dad did not usually like talking on the phone and would often "rush" callers off. He always acted like he preferred to be left alone, that the telephone was just a bother. Dad had an answering machine but wouldn't turn it on, so .......

 

[cloudajo]

That's an interesting little timeline there. JuM was supposed to be the most frequent visitor, but that was only about once a week.

So I think you are right that PB seeing Bob on Thursday, then again on Sunday, would have been about money and financial arrangements. If we go back a bit then to RB's awful letter and the reports of elder abuse, it all begins to look like sheer desperation to get hold of Bob's money before Fontelle has a chance to really settle in as his wife.

I wonder if AH's last visit to Bob had something to do with money as well?

Just for reference, PB posted this on Aug 12, 2009 on another site. She said she was the one in contact with Bob at the time "to observe the situation." It's in reference to the barber.

Because I was the one in contact with him at the time, I was trying to get close to what was going on so that I could observe the situation. But she was very careful and cunning, she is very friendly on the outside, but she was that way with ALL the men that came in to her shop, IMHO.

 

[cloudajo]

huh. Sounds like she saw him twice...first time 4 days earlier and he was of sound mind, then again the afternoon before his disappearance and in that short time span, he lost his mind? right.
Both visits are about Bob's money and who he chose to share it with.

I really think the sisters step in to buffer JuM because she decompensates, a psych term, but it means she loses her ability to function and handle things. We've seen plenty of her poor impulse control, mood lability, & acting out.
I think they step in to prevent her from sticking her foot too far down her mouth thus they manage the official contacts and etc as they are more rational.
It's bad for everyone when she goes off the rails.
NO stigma intended!!
BP does not cause one to lose their morals. That would be a personal character defect.
But I do think the BP has a lot to do with why things are handed off to the sisters.

I totally agree with this.