CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #15

[believe09]

Just for reference, PB posted this on Aug 12, 2009 on another site. She said she was the one in contact with Bob at the time "to observe the situation." It's in reference to the barber.

Because I was the one in contact with him at the time, I was trying to get close to what was going on so that I could observe the situation. But she was very careful and cunning, she is very friendly on the outside, but she was that way with ALL the men that came in to her shop, IMHO.

See now, I am not sure of the veracity of this one either. Bob was married. Any further contact with BL was between BL, Bob and Fontelle. PB is the one who said that Bob didnt discuss his financial arrangements. With anyone. Ever. At least that is what I recall from the Disappeared video.

Interesting the BL was closer to Bob than his children, but you cant blame him. Det Radomski indicated that children were pressuring Bob and demanding money. He confirmed the request for them to stay away.

I wonder what the consequences were to be if they breached that agreement?

 

[Oriah]

To be perfectly honest, all those co-ordinates above scare me silly. I console myself a little with the thought that it was only a single human being who did this to Bob (imo).

Therefore, it's highly possible - even probable - that all it will take is a single human being to bring him home.

With maybe a bit of help from a man's best friend or two.

People driving, walking, hiking and biking in the natural areas around Placentia, PLEASE look out for Bob. And don't forget there is a $50,000 reward to be claimed if you find him.

BBM:
Not a laughing matter, but I found this funny Zwie. If you walked into my office you'd probably have a heart attack because they're like wallpaper around here. Coordinates are almost exclusively what we use to clear (or not clear) areas of interest in cases. It's the most exact way to pinpoint specific locations, and the best way to communicate with other teams who may also be searching.

I'm pretty sure even the dogs know how to read them at this point.

 

[Oriah]

Here is the other reference from the NAMUS Case Report - I believe PB entered this data. She said Bob “seemed in good spirits.” BBM.

He was at home and seemed in good spirits when I last spoke to him somewhere between 11 a.m. - 12pm. His son-in-law was there doing odd jobs as Dads new wife was returning from Missouri on Wed. 7/29/09. Heard son-in-law say he was going to the hardware store. When he returned the housekeeper was waiting outside and Dad was gone. He did NOT take his car, but did have his keys and wallet. No contact or word has been heard from since.

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/case_report_html/2706

Also, RB posted on another forum in Sep 2010 that both PB and JuM called Bob the day he disappeared. If she’s saying PB is the call at 11:45 below, then she’s saying JuM called Bob before 11:45. I don’t know if these calls were really made or not.

Sep 30, 2010 - RB

The police have not revealed the phone records but each of my sisters said called Dad early that day, the latest of their two calls was around 11:45, as that call was completed just before noon. Dad gave my sister the impression that he had received a number of calls that morning but, I know Dad did not usually like talking on the phone and would often "rush" callers off. He always acted like he preferred to be left alone, that the telephone was just a bother. Dad had an answering machine but wouldn't turn it on, so .......

Cloud, as always thank you so much for your hard work. I know what was reported to be missing from the Harrod residence (keys, wallet) but I am most interested in keys. I know we already had this key conversation awhile back, but I've been wondering if maybe we're overlooking something that might be a posssibility. We've been focused on JM and the use of his vehicle as a possible method of transportation. But what if it was Mr. Harrod's car? What about that might explain the timeline differently, and the missing keys? Might someone have taken Mr. Harrod for a ride in his own vehicle, or forced him to drive- then drove back to the residence, minus Mr. Harrod and forgotten the keys in their pocket? Then got into JM's vehicle to make shopping trip(s)? All prior to the HC arriving? How might this change our timeline?

Also, anyone know how high the step up is into JM's vehicle? I know from experience that sometimes elderly people with bad knees tend to have a difficult time getting into pickups and SUV's due to the higher rise.

Thoughts anyone?

ETA: I am most interested if GH's will had perhaps been copied and notarized and was stored in a safety deposit box at a bank somewhere? Perhaps someone wanted proof that what Mr. Harrod said re: her will the evening before was accurate, so they made a run to a bank to check (would need access from Mr. Harrod of course) and then found something they really did not like.

 

[Cubby]

Here is the other reference from the NAMUS Case Report - I believe PB entered this data. She said Bob “seemed in good spirits.” BBM.

He was at home and seemed in good spirits when I last spoke to him somewhere between 11 a.m. - 12pm. His son-in-law was there doing odd jobs as Dads new wife was returning from Missouri on Wed. 7/29/09. Heard son-in-law say he was going to the hardware store. When he returned the housekeeper was waiting outside and Dad was gone. He did NOT take his car, but did have his keys and wallet. No contact or word has been heard from since.

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/case_report_html/2706

Also, RB posted on another forum in Sep 2010 that both PB and JuM called Bob the day he disappeared. If she’s saying PB is the call at 11:45 below, then she’s saying JuM called Bob before 11:45. I don’t know if these calls were really made or not.

Sep 30, 2010 - RB

The police have not revealed the phone records but each of my sisters said called Dad early that day, the latest of their two calls was around 11:45, as that call was completed just before noon. Dad gave my sister the impression that he had received a number of calls that morning but, I know Dad did not usually like talking on the phone and would often "rush" callers off. He always acted like he preferred to be left alone, that the telephone was just a bother. Dad had an answering machine but wouldn't turn it on, so .......

I think these calls are clearly lies, unless we are to believe JeM spent 3-4 hours at the HD, arriving home with the 3:04pm time stamped receipt. And even that doesn't match up with the 45 - 60 minute time range JeM told LE he spent at the HD.

Why doesn't JeM have a receipt for his 1st HD trip, the day of Bob's disappearance? and why haven't RB and PB demanded an answer as to why there is no receipt for the 1st HD visit?

Does anyone recall the reasons from the alleged am calls to Bob from JuM and PB?

The closer one looks at this, the easier it is to see it appears the daughters figured this out early on, very early on, and started circling the wagons with an attempt at an alibi for JeM.

 

[Cubby]

Just for reference, PB posted this on Aug 12, 2009 on another site. She said she was the one in contact with Bob at the time "to observe the situation." It's in reference to the barber.

Because I was the one in contact with him at the time, I was trying to get close to what was going on so that I could observe the situation. But she was very careful and cunning, she is very friendly on the outside, but she was that way with ALL the men that came in to her shop, IMHO.

BBM. Isn't it funny how PB tries to make greeting customers when they walk into a business establishment a bad thing? I wonder how PB expects to be treated as a customer herself if she has a problem with friendly and welcoming.

 

[believe09]

I am still wondering about that around 10AM call as well-what if it was outbound to his atty or his financial planner...kwim?

 

[TDW59]

It's not true that Bob was wholly tight lipped regarding finances, he revealed some things to his good friend CA Exile that I think we can all regard as personal information.
I believe he also talked about them with Fontelle in the evening phone call after the family meeting.
I do believe he limited information shared with his daughters.
And they hated that.

Today I am looking at how he went about things with them.
He did not tell them about his intent to marry until he was ready to act on it..and he did act on it quickly and before expected.
Therefore, I surmise, that in telling his daughters that he intended to add his wife to his accounts and assets, he was ready to act on it immediately.
Perhaps he planned on putting some of that in place the next day after the meeting.
Up until now, I, too have disregarded the daughters' claims of phone calls but I am considering them calling with a dual purpose now.
Maybe they did call to test the waters after that family meeting, maybe they were fishing as to whether he was going to appointments to make changes to his finances that day.?? Probably they wanted to do some damage control from the day before and defer him acting upon his to-do list. They would want to try to put themselves in good graces with him for fear of losing their share of his monies and smooth things over from the day before.
I don't think they spoke to him independently of talking with each other as well.
Could they have altered their statements about their calls later, providing an alibi? why not?
I suspect if they phoned and they well may have, that it was much earlier in the day.
I don't think Bob was the only one that was very upset at the end of the family meeting.
But only LE has phone records and only they know for sure.
Is it possible that one of the sisters arranged for the other 2 to phone to provide an alibi whether they knew that was it's purpose or not. I believe so.
How much did that one sister know and would she be able to keep that secret at that time? :scared:
That's one of the $50,000 questions isn't it?

maybe I need more coffee before I post?

Let's just say I believe it possible the daughters phoned and that they misstated the content and changed times after the fact...of Bob's disappearance.

I am getting quite confused over the timeline discrepancies.

 

[TDW59]

BBM. Isn't it funny how PB tries to make greeting customers when they walk into a business establishment a bad thing? I wonder how PB expects to be treated as a customer herself if she has a problem with friendly and welcoming.

exactly!!
duh.

 

[TDW59]

I am still wondering about that around 10AM call as well-what if it was outbound to his atty or his financial planner...kwim?

Yep. makes sense to me. I think it fits the situation at hand to a "T".

 

[MaryNo]

Does this "trump" her sworn statement? I have an issue with circumstances in place around the time of Bob's disappearance.

I believe Fontelle is spot on with the assessment that things were heated regarding her being added to Bob's accounts. I find it "iffy" that Julie found the "missing papers", if Paula were at the meeting. Paula, by all appearances, had more information into Bob's affairs than the other 2 sisters. It puzzles me that if Paula had been there Thurs. or Fri. that she didn't grab the "missing papers", making the Sun. meeting unnecessary.

Then we have a visit by the county right after Fontelle gets home. I sat last night searching for timelines requiring Social Services to respond to abuse reports, and couldn't get a finite answer. Over and over it was verified that the elderly person does not need to accept services when offered.

So, I agree that 10:00 am phone could possibly have been an outgoing call, if Bob had been told Sun. that a report had been made. I can't see Jeff having been the one to have told Bob Mon. morning. Though, he could have. Bob could have been calling to cancel the visit from the county. Yet, even though he could have called to cancel, they still showed up. Possibly, they're required to make an initial visit, whether or not the possible victim wants to deal with them. I have a feel for WHO made the call, but WHEN, is something I'd like to know. I'd love to get an answer for this. I think I should give them a call if I can get through some of my stuff today.

I am formulating an opinion that the Sun. meeting was nothing like we've been told. It's possible, Paula was not there, and the subject matter was more about Fontelle getting a piece of the pie than about any missing papers, or neglect on Bob's part RE: bypass trust.

PS: Poo! I didn't multi-quote the other post RE: 10:00 outgoing phone call. Sorry :rose:

Paula talks in Disappeared about her presence at the family meeting. The one where folks were "quick to temper." She also posted on IS that she was there and everyone left on good terms.

She puts herself there. I bet she did in her statement to LE as well.

 

[tamild]

Cloud, as always thank you so much for your hard work. I know what was reported to be missing from the Harrod residence (keys, wallet) but I am most interested in keys. I know we already had this key conversation awhile back, but I've been wondering if maybe we're overlooking something that might be a posssibility. We've been focused on JM and the use of his vehicle as a possible method of transportation. But what if it was Mr. Harrod's car? What about that might explain the timeline differently, and the missing keys? Might someone have taken Mr. Harrod for a ride in his own vehicle, or forced him to drive- then drove back to the residence, minus Mr. Harrod and forgotten the keys in their pocket? Then got into JM's vehicle to make shopping trip(s)? All prior to the HC arriving? How might this change our timeline?

Also, anyone know how high the step up is into JM's vehicle? I know from experience that sometimes elderly people with bad knees tend to have a difficult time getting into pickups and SUV's due to the higher rise.

Thoughts anyone?

ETA: I am most interested if GH's will had perhaps been copied and notarized and was stored in a safety deposit box at a bank somewhere? Perhaps someone wanted proof that what Mr. Harrod said re: her will the evening before was accurate, so they made a run to a bank to check (would need access from Mr. Harrod of course) and then found something they really did not like.

BBM

I'm liking this a lot. Didn't the neighbor say that Bob always drove to the lodge meetings, and he suspected it was because Bob didn't like his driving? I wonder if there was anyone else whose driving Bob didn't like.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM:
Not a laughing matter, but I found this funny Zwie. If you walked into my office you'd probably have a heart attack because they're like wallpaper around here. Coordinates are almost exclusively what we use to clear (or not clear) areas of interest in cases. It's the most exact way to pinpoint specific locations, and the best way to communicate with other teams who may also be searching.

I'm pretty sure even the dogs know how to read them at this point.

Oh wow. This sounds like Mr Z's idea of decor heaven; along with graphs, charts, things I don't understand, maps and a railway timetable or two hundred for good measure. Luckily, he hasn't got the practical impetus to hang them and I haven't got the will.

 

[zwiebel]

There are three excellent points nestling above me made by our wonderful posters. I wish someone could join us who knows an answer to at least one.

Hairdressers who are friendly and chatty in their salons are hardly to be remarked upon - let alone a cause for suspicion. I wonder what the hairdresser's customers think? I mean, are there any unfriendly, silent hairdressers actually in business?

The Sunday meeting can hardly be simply a coincidence, stuck as it was right after Bob's new wife returned to MO, but just before she returned, and just a day or two after Bob had already had a meeting with the daughter who says she helped him with his financial matters. And why were daughters all bugging Bob with phone calls on Monday morning? Was that usual, given that they say he didn't much care for their calls?

Was son-in-law JeM likely to be the sort of safe, slow driver Bob would have been happy to take a ride with?

 

[zwiebel]

Note: my question about JeM's driving would provoke some laughter in England. Given the vehicle he was driving at the time, and the work he was doing, he'd be classed as a 'white van man'. They're famous.

Google it to see what I mean.

 

[MaryNo]

Law enforcement also claim that Bob's glasses are missing, along with the wallet and keys you mention here. Glasses, wallet, and keys WOULD mean there is the possibility of his driving that day Add to this, some of us here believe that Bob left his house very much alive.

The police mention having searched Bob's car a little, having found his friends' address in the glove box. I re-checked, and cannot find a reference to them have done forensics on the car.

I have always felt Bob was left out to die, which is why nothing too earth-shattering has been found in his house, or Jeff's vehicle. I am guessing similar results would come from Bob's car.

This is a great theory!

Cloud, as always thank you so much for your hard work. I know what was reported to be missing from the Harrod residence (keys, wallet) but I am most interested in keys. I know we already had this key conversation awhile back, but I've been wondering if maybe we're overlooking something that might be a posssibility. We've been focused on JM and the use of his vehicle as a possible method of transportation. But what if it was Mr. Harrod's car? What about that might explain the timeline differently, and the missing keys? Might someone have taken Mr. Harrod for a ride in his own vehicle, or forced him to drive- then drove back to the residence, minus Mr. Harrod and forgotten the keys in their pocket? Then got into JM's vehicle to make shopping trip(s)? All prior to the HC arriving? How might this change our timeline?

Also, anyone know how high the step up is into JM's vehicle? I know from experience that sometimes elderly people with bad knees tend to have a difficult time getting into pickups and SUV's due to the higher rise.

Thoughts anyone?

ETA: I am most interested if GH's will had perhaps been copied and notarized and was stored in a safety deposit box at a bank somewhere? Perhaps someone wanted proof that what Mr. Harrod said re: her will the evening before was accurate, so they made a run to a bank to check (would need access from Mr. Harrod of course) and then found something they really did not like.

 

[deca]

I am not sure they would have taken the chance of "leaving him to die". What if he crawled down to a road and got help? That area is populated enough that even if you are out in the desert or in the mountains you could find someone within a few miles walk (if you don't get turned around and lost).
My guess: push off cliff or passive type killing (OD on meds) if they actually lured Bob out somewhere. Although I guess we know that JeM had no problem shooting wild animals, right?

Now that some of you pointed out the supposed two sisters calling Monday morning....that does seem weird. Unless they both made calls multiple times a week to check on Bob, what are the chances they both called that morning right after they saw him? From all accounts, Bob was trying to limit his contact with them to a certain extent so I don't think they had frequent long chats. Did JeM have a cell phone? Were the calls answered by JeM and later they said they talked to Bob to mess up the timeline?

 

[zwiebel]

That's the trouble, isn't it? Unless somebody just left a voice message, it's impossible to prove who they might have actually talked to when they called Bob's home.

I wish daughter PB had been a little clearer about the conversation she had with Bob - specifically, what Bob said, rather than son-in-law and herself.

I suppose we'll never get an explanation, unless RB gives one on her behalf. Why is it that RB seems to have been left to explain everything?

 

[MaryNo]

Respectfully snipped by me

I guess the thought grew out of another thought, that if you have the stomach to kill a vulnerable 81 yr. old man, ANY elderly person for that matter, then you are a cruel person at your core. Because there has been very little forensic information showing (to my knowledge, anyway), it would seem that his death took place away from his home, vehicles, and neighborhood.

He could have been knocked unconscious once having arrived at his final destination, and left to the elements. We were told by family, and his neighbor that he couldn't walk far. So, his walking too far for help didn't seem feasible when I was pondering what happened, especially if he was concussed. Unconscious, thrown down the side of the canyon, or mixed with construction trash, or under construction trash( idea from Cubby, Believe, Cloud, Montjoy, and others' posts) he could have suffered some confusion due to a head injury. Just a few possibilities that have crossed my mind.

When they find Bob, and I believe they will, we'll find we were all wrong. The culprit will probably be Mr. Mustard in the BMW with the candlestick.

I am not sure they would have taken the chance of "leaving him to die". What if he crawled down to a road and got help? they said they talked to Bob to mess up the timeline?

 

[zwiebel]

I feel I can state with confidence that candlesticks won't feature.

Bob's candlesticks appeared on the memorabilia list, as one of the endless items daughters claimed.....

 

[zwiebel]

I have trouble picturing how an unwilling, live Bob could have been transported against his will.

He wasn't a small man. Sitting in the passenger seat of a vehicle he would have been perfectly visible to other drivers. If he had thought he was being taken to a house, or a store, how far out of densely populated areas/busy highways would the driver have been able to get before Bob realised something was wrong?

It would have taken such a cold, reckless heart and head to drive along with a questioning, complaining or even struggling Bob in the passenger seat. Or even just a bewildered Bob. It doesn't bear thinking about.

I really hope it didn't happen like that.