CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #15

[TDW59]

LE did classify Bob's case as a homicide rather early on and have had years to change that if there were any evidence suggesting otherwise.
For all we know maybe Bob did speak with her on the phone that morning? LE has the phone records.
The conservators attempted to sue her for the value of the gifts Bob gave her but lost on all points and were ordered to pay her court costs.
If you don't believe there is a crime and that BL is involved, what are you suggesting?
That they ran off together into the sunset? I don't think so. If Bob wanted to be with BL, he could..without giving up his home and trust and other assets. There have been no withdrawals from Bob's accounts by Bob and it is clear he wanted to handle his own financial affairs himself.
Was BL upset that Bob had married Fontelle? It appears so. So was Bob's family.
If I were Bob, I would tell them all to take a slow boat to China. Maybe he did, in his own words.
I am sure he intended to protect and enjoy his new marriage to the fullest with the woman of his choice. And he made his feelings and intentions regarding Fontelle more than abundantly clear to all.
BL stood to gain absolutely nothing..not one penny..by Bob's disappearance. That cannot be said of his family. They were about to lose a portion of Bob's inheritance just as soon as Bob executed his plans on his to do list and that was imminent.
Bob did not tell others that he was upset with BL..he did say that he was very upset and frustrated with his daughters.

Bob's daughters hired legal help to gain control of Bob's monies within 72 hours. They have not participated in any of the many ways and opportunities to help find Bob. Two of them did appear on the ID program. However they also began an embarrassing smear campaign against their father almost immediately upon his disappearance. I find that most odd and inappropriate. It was very public on the www.

The last person to see Bob alive, the spouse of the youngest daughter has not been forthcoming with the information and evidence to clear himself.

Bob's family, through their own actions and inaction, have drawn the scrutiny to themselves all by themselves. Further their actions certainly point to the belief that Bob will not be returning.

 

[Cubby]

I mean a red herring in the sense that sometimes Police will issue information to lull a POI into a false sense of security.

Not suggesting it's the situation in this case, as someone else has posted apparently there has been no official clearing of anyone?:twocents:.

I agree, but in this case I think the red herring is to lull Bob's CA family into a false sense of security. It's really not like PPD is going to contact the daughters, AH and JeM and say something along the lines of, 'can you come in such and such a date so we can keep you posted on what we have on you?' lol.

Though, I can see Bob's daughters wanting to hang onto that like their krugerands from the memorabilia list. It keeps the focus off a direction they clearly do not want to look at.

 

[Cubby]

I just got off the phone with APS for Orange County. I called the hotline: #800-451-5155, and was transferred to APS for Orange County. I spoke with Maria (no last name given).

The response time for emergency/crisis such as: rape, residence lockout, food, shelter, clothing is 24 hours from the time they receive the phone call/report.

Non-emergency reports, such as Bob's financial abuse report response time is 10 calendar days from the time the Field Worker receives the report.. She said this is specific. Holidays, weekends, evenings etc. IS all included in the 10 calendar days. I guess, they will show up for Christmas dinner if it falls in the 10 calendar days - good to know.

She stated that this policy is mandated by the state, and was in place in 2009.

Ok, then we count back 10 days from July 29, 2009 to determine when the most recent call was made to APS. APS was called no earlier than July 19, 2009. Two days after the poison pen letter was written and mailed.

Interesting flurry of activity from Bob's daughters between the time Mrs. Harrod left CA to pack her things in MO and Mr. Harrod's disappearance.

2009
June 29 Bob and Fontelle marry.
July 7 Mrs Harrod returns to MO to get ready for her move to CA.
July 10 RB has a telephone conversation with Bob's attorney (source, 'poison pen' letter)
July 17 RB writes and mails Bob's attorney the 'poison pen' letter.
July 19 Someone calls APS to report elder abuse
July 26 Heated family meeting over Bob's money
July 27 Bob disappears
Week of July 27 Per RB (disappeared episode) Bob's daughters meet with Bob's attorney to determine Mrs. Harrod has not been added to the estate.


And RB, per her comment on Disappeared, expects us to believe this is "just a coincidence"?

Sorry to quote this again but it was too late to edit and I wanted to add one more line.

Det. Radomski: One of the huge difficulties in a case like this is that we're pretty confident that this isn't an act of random violence or an abduction, so you have to look at somebody involved- inner circle and that's very hard to get the truth out of that. Friends and family will protect each other. I think that the details lie in the battle for the money.

 

[believe09]

To answer the question upthread re: a ruote of travel from PLacentia to Coyote Canyon and coordinates, here goes (I actually had it in my notes from way back):
Bear in mind these are rough coords, depending on which route you take but this one fits the timeline.
Beginning in Placentia (33.53.05.48N/117.52.50.88W) onto 60 to Riverside.
Bear E at (34.01.09.13N/117.4902.09W) the Pomona Freeway, passing Chino to the S.
At roughly (34.01.30.01N/117.33.35.79W) you'd hop on 15N, passing Racho Cucamonga to your W.
From there you'd continue N until turning right on Cherry Ave (34.09.05.73N/117.28.54.49W)
At about that point there is a pull off there with a 'view.'
You'd then continue on to Duncan Canyon to arrive at Coyote Canyon (34.09.56.67N/117.28.20.27W).

From there, quite frankly, it is a morass of trails, both hiking, drivable, animal- all types of foliage and a ton of space.

Does this help at all?
I will copy and paste in the SAR thread.

I am bumping Oriah's post. It is time for Mr Harrod to come home, long past time. There are sworn statements contradicted, from phone calls to visits to debt forgiveness upon death. LE made it clear why Bob was killed, I am convinced LE knows where he was killed, now his current location is the final piece as far as I am concerned. I dont think I want to know how he was killed.

 

[tamild]

Something that nags me...

BBM
From link:

Loomis said police initially thought Harrod left because he had gotten into an argument with another family member; they had hoped he would return when his wife came back to Placentia.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/31/local/me-missing-groom31

Why would LE think that? The family meeting was the evening before. Did LE have reason to believe Bob got into an argument the day he disappeared?

 

[believe09]

Given the Disappeared segment, I would say the days of lulling the family into a false sense of security are long past. Detective Radomski was quite clear.

I feel like we know the who and the why thanks to Detective Radomski's own words on Disappeared.

Our best guess at a time frame, IIRC, is an extended one or a somewhat shortened one...we were somewhat split I think? If we hang onto the last known outside family contact of around 10AM, then we are looking at the shorter time frame.

I think I am going to focus on the possibility that the call was one made by Bob and was to someone who would know him, like his attorney or financial planner.

So the Coyote Canyon location fits in with the shorter time frame I think.

 

[believe09]

Something that nags me...

BBM
From link:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/31/local/me-missing-groom31

Why would LE think that? The family meeting was the evening before. Did LE have reason to believe Bob got into an argument the day he disappeared?

It appears that this was taken from the police report where grandson told LE there had been fighting in the family and maybe Bob had gone somewhere to cool off.

 

[tamild]

They were married June 29th, and told the family July 2.

I believe this info may have come from the old IS forum. Dreamweaver, and Cloudajo post about this info in the 2 posts below. I will continue looking for other sources, while you process the info above. Hopefully, something earth-shattering will pop up in my search

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #1

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #1

From above link:

Fontelle returned on July 29. She brought her daughter and her dog with her.

Wow...is this true? I had never heard anything about Fontelle arriving with anyone.

 

[believe09]

From above link:

Wow...is this true? I had never heard anything about Fontelle arriving with anyone.

And it was fortunate that she did. Anyone think that there might have been a witness to the family meeting on 7/30 when the aunts and AH said they were told to thrown Fontelle's :censored: out on the street? That is my guess.

 

[Cubby]

Given the Disappeared segment, I would say the days of lulling the family into a false sense of security are long past. Detective Radomski was quite clear.

I feel like we know the who and the why thanks to Detective Radomski's own words on Disappeared.

Our best guess at a time frame, IIRC, is an extended one or a somewhat shortened one...we were somewhat split I think? If we hang onto the last known outside family contact of around 10AM, then we are looking at the shorter time frame.

I think I am going to focus on the possibility that the call was one made by Bob and was to someone who would know him, like his attorney or financial planner.

So the Coyote Canyon location fits in with the shorter time frame I think.

No doubt Radomski was quite clear, however there are some of his words which the inner CA circle might choose to grasp onto in order to lull themselves into a false sense of security. I never meant to imply it was a rational sense of security, but I can see where they would find the words to convince themselves of 'security'.

 

[tamild]

And it was fortunate that she did. Anyone think that there might have been a witness to the family meeting on 7/30 when the aunts and AH said they were told to thrown Fontelle's :censored: out on the street? That is my guess.

There very well could've been a witness. This puts everything it a different perspective for me, though. I was under the impression that Fontelle was all alone when she arrived. Do we have verification for this?

 

[Cubby]

Something that nags me...

BBM
From link:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/31/local/me-missing-groom31

Why would LE think that? The family meeting was the evening before. Did LE have reason to believe Bob got into an argument the day he disappeared?

I always thought they were refering to the argument at the family meeting/recent family fighting AH mentioned to LE at the well being check.

When we look back at the escalating events in the month of July (see my above post) I don't think the family meeting was the event which concluded the family fighting. IMO that family fighting carried over to the next morning and I think some of the answers lie in the repairs made in Bob's home.

Remember, those repairs have never been fully disclosed.

 

[tamild]

I always thought they were refering to the argument at the family meeting/recent family fighting AH mentioned to LE at the well being check.

When we look back at the escalating events in the month of July (see my above post) I don't think the family meeting was the event which concluded the family fighting. IMO that family fighting carried over to the next morning and I think some of the answers lie in the repairs made in Bob's home.

Remember, those repairs have never been fully disclosed.

Maybe it's the wording that's bugging me. It didn't say he was fighting with his family, it said "another family member" which to me, indicates an individual.

I'm in total agreement about it carrying over to the following morning. It seems to me that for LE to think Bob left to cool off, they would've had to suspect an argument occurred that same day.

 

[Cubby]

I think it could be the wording. That article is dated July 31, so they still sorting out details and info they were given by various parties.

And, iirc according to the disappeared episode, JeM did not go in for questioning until the same day, (friday) that the article was written. I wonder if that means LE was questioning him about an argument between him and Bob on that Friday?

 

[MaryNo]

Yes! Fontelle needs her Man to come home! I've been scouring that area's maps, and really, while there are a great many places Bob could be, there's also a limit to where he could be, given the timeline. IF we believe it was all done at the same time, that is.

It's still possible that Bob lay somewhere close to the house waiting to be taken to his final destination. We only have Jeff's word that he didn't know Agnes was coming. He could have returned in the middle of "whatever" to let her in, played with the repair scenario a bit, Agnes cleans, Agnes leaves, and Jeff locks up, and leaves. He finishes "whatever", and goes the rest of the way home. That is, if Jeff is the culprit.

I don't like the 330 route, but it's still doable, if things weren't done all at the same time. What bothers me about the 330 route, is that posters have said a lot of bodies have turned up along that area throughout the years. The killer would know that. I would think something a bit off the beaten path is a bit safer for all involved. I mean, 330 would definitely point to a particular family having been involved.

I am bumping Oriah's post. It is time for Mr Harrod to come home, long past time. There are sworn statements contradicted, from phone calls to visits to debt forgiveness upon death. LE made it clear why Bob was killed, I am convinced LE knows where he was killed, now his current location is the final piece as far as I am concerned. I dont think I want to know how he was killed.

 

[MaryNo]

Respectfully BBM

No, we haven't discovered what services he carried on his phone. I'm curious, too.

I may have missed this somewhere in all the threads- but did we ever clarify Mr. Harrod's specific phone service, whether or not it was connected to cable or satellite or dish tv and/or the internet- and whether or not he had access to both a physical answering machine AND voicemail? TIA if anyone can refresh my memory on this.

 

[Cubby]

FWIW, I wonder if the cleaning lady finished and "locked up" prior to Jeff returning from the 2nd HD trip. I think it's possible she left shortly before he returned from the afternoon (3:04pm receipt) trip and that is why we've seen info about both locking up before leaving.

 

[zwiebel]

There very well could've been a witness. This puts everything it a different perspective for me, though. I was under the impression that Fontelle was all alone when she arrived. Do we have verification for this?

I am pretty certain that Fontelle's daughter arrived with her and she can be seen in two videos, including the one where Fonelle arrives at the home. Check out this video in the garage bit - I don't think that's a Harrod daughter. She looks too worried.

81 Year Old Newlywed Vanishes in OC FOX 11 News myFOXla com - YouTube

 

[zwiebel]

Mr Z is a total nincompoop. He just caught a glimpse of that video, mistook Det Loomis for a Bob relative and said her tone of voice was suspicious.

Of course she sounds cool and collected! She's a detective! (I'm writing it here because I can't snap at Mr Z - he is so helpful to Bob in so many other ways. Just not this one).

 

[deca]

FWIW, I wonder if the cleaning lady finished and "locked up" prior to Jeff returning from the 2nd HD trip. I think it's possible she left shortly before he returned from the afternoon (3:04pm receipt) trip and that is why we've seen info about both locking up before leaving.

My take on it was cleaning lady arrives around noon. JeM shows up, flustered that cleaning lady is there a little later and says he just got back from the store (supposed HD trip #1 that there is no receipt for).

He fiddles around for awhile, then leaves to HD (2:30 ish). Cleaning lady still there and locks up around 3:00ish, while JeM is buying something at HD#2 (evidence on receipt).

IIRC the cleaning lady said JeM left before her.