CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #15

[Cubby]

Well, she was the only person involved that day or close to Bob that had NOTHING to gain by his death---only something to lose- her employment.

I think technically we have to look at who has gained by his disappearance. Who gains from the death and who gains from the disappearance of Mr. Harrod are two different things. Mr Harrod has not been declared deceased.

 

[sreshowtime]

Sorry-then you asked about the phantom Black SUV. I would love to know when he saw it and for how long it was slowly driving on the wrong side of the street. It had to be in the AM before CL arrived, right? Bob was already gone by the time she showed up. At least according to one of the timelines.

Maybe you can help us sort out the timelines too sre:
-Bob disappeared at 10AM according to JuM. Remarkably close to his last verified call and when JeM was in the house. Foul Play was suspected she said, IIRC.

-Bob disappeared around Noon, within minutes of JeM leaving the house and CL arriving.

-Bob disappeared around 12 or 1 according to JuM which puts CL and JeM together in the house when Bob disappeared.

-Bob disappeared around 3PM which puts CL in the house and JeM at Home Depot.

this is a trick question correct? or an initiation?

hmm
I would venture to guess what happened , happened, after the verified phone call and before the housekeeper arrived, who was locked out.

And I don't think Mr. H would have forgotten the key for her per usual, if he had gone for a stroll...or off 'willingly', with...say whomever claimed to have been there that morning to handymanatize. Mr. H strikes me as a disciplined man who would have left her a key.

And her sitting there was not a happy surprise. , when someone got back from where ever they went to. Egads, can you say CYA.

So I might deduce there was limited window ...at most 2 hrs, 1 at least...
so split the diff and say 90 mins. Hour and a half


wasn't a lot of time to coordinate the narrative, oh, like after the fact, was there?

 

[believe09]

this is a trick question correct? or an initiation?

hmm
I would venture to guess what happened , happened, after the verified phone call and before the housekeeper arrived, who was locked out.

And I don't think Mr. H would have forgotten the key for her per usual, if he had gone for a stroll...or off 'willingly', with...say whomever claimed to have been there that morning to handymanatize. Mr. H strikes me as a disciplined man who would have left her a key.

And her sitting there was not a happy surprise. , when someone got back from where ever they went to. Egads, can you say CYA.

So I might deduce there was limited window ...at most 2 hrs, 1 at least...
so split the diff and say 90 mins. Hour and a half


wasn't a lot of time to coordinate the details, was there

BBM, sre...but first :floorlaugh: with the initiation comment!!

This is where I am still :fence:. I want to think that what happened that day was something that just spiraled out of control...a snap decision that went terribly terribly wrong. It seems likely that Bob was hot under the collar after the previous day, and it seems possible that he had some things to say to JeM about this event. Imagine the ride home the previous night with JuM-imagine how that car ride was? I bet it wasnt fun. I bet JeM listened to a whole lot of ranting-we have seen how out of control JuM gets on her own community forum regarding perceived sleights...or even just being called out. That ride was no picinic I am sure-and I am sure JeM received his marching orders before he headed dth.

I think he just snapped. And panicked. But I am in the minority, which I recognize. There is a case to be made for it having been planned-I cant ignore that.

Where are you Bob? Apparently some where in a 90 minute circle.

 

[sreshowtime]

(whispers,....have a crazier theory involving being stashed in the house/garage and retrieved after darkness...does the housekeeper vac under the bed, dust the garage or air out the attic?)

no matter ...Mr. H needs found bless his dear self

 

[shana]

Respectfully snipped, bolding mine:

Not if he had to report his "dividends and interest income", quite possibly could have had income from corporations,,partnerships, etc...IMO.

If Mr Harrod had income from the sources you mention, he would certainly report them on his return as mandated by IRS regulations. That said, one cannot determine an individual's net worth nor the value of an Estate based on a stack of 1099s or K-1s for a given tax year.

It does not surprise me in the least that his daughters did not know the extent of his wealth.

~jmo~

 

[shana]

I do not have my files on this case handy atm...What is the date that Julie wrote the "memorabilia list"? As I recall, it was contained in a private email (still rather shocked it has been delivered for public consumption, but that's another matter). Do we know why she produced this list, at whose bidding?~jmo~

Quoting myself here, for reference. I still do not have access to my files, so I just downloaded those which are provided here at WS for members.

The subject document is scanned and I see no notation upon it that it is a certified court copy. As well, there is no answer to it. It was authored by the Objector's attorney and replete with arguments (one-sided).

The so-called Memorabilia List is dated April 8, 2010.

I have to ask: Has anyone here ever dealt with a Trust, not in the course of one's work, but as a principal such as Settlor/Trustee/Conservator/Beneficiary, and as such, gone thru Probate in California?

~jmo~

 

[shana]

The memorabilia was was not private-it was attached to court proceedings. The girls made their ridiculous assertion that Bob and Georgia owned nothing in their house at Carnation Drive. Except a mattress and a chair lift IIRC.

Agreed that this will not locate Mr Harrod unless there is a candelabra or a safe laying next to him where ever he was dumped.

It speaks, however, to the avaricious nature of his children. It is an indefensible list. They would have been far better off merely stating the truth of the matter-they wanted everything that was his.

How do you know that the Trust did not specify that Personal Property was bequeathed to the children? When this is the case, the children (beneficiaries) may be required to produce a list to the Trustee, naming which items they would want. Items not wanted by any of the children would typically be disposed of, any proceeds flowing pro-rata to these same beneficiaries.

Could it be that Fontelle wanted personal items that were relevant only to Mr Harrod's first marriage removed from the home she would now be sharing with her new husband? I find no fault in that, if so. Who better to claim them than the children of Mr Harrod's first long-term marriage?

~jmo~

 

[shana]

(whispers,....have a crazier theory involving being stashed in the house/garage and retrieved after darkness...does the housekeeper vac under the bed, dust the garage or air out the attic?)

no matter ...Mr. H needs found bless his dear self

Not sure, but I would highly doubt a housekeeper's regular routine would involve airing-out the attic here in Southern CA most especially.

The garage was reportedly packed to the gills with Mr Harrod's saved stuff over the years, as well as boxes of Fontelle's property which she had been shipping to CA once she returned to the midwest after the marriage.

After darkness would indicate the time the family called for a well-being check, unlikely anyone would be removing a body from the family home at such time.

Yes, Mr Harrod certainly needs to be found!

~jmo~

 

[zwiebel]

Even though I have no experience with Californian estate administration, I still think it's unusual to see a man's possessions being disbursed to the family before he is declared dead. And with his wife still living in the home the items are taken from, too.

I suspect Fontelle's attorney may have insisted JuM made that list, to ensure there was a record of what daughters were claiming and perhaps to also ensure the home was not completely stripped bare and rendered uninhabitable for Fontelle. By that I mean the kitchen and light fittings, maybe even bathroom fittings.

People nearly always take all those items when moving home here in Germany, and it does mean a lot of work and expense before a person can move back in.

I don't think it was Fontelle insisting they removed articles from the house - I believe Fontelle was probably coming under strong pressure from daughters to let them take what they wanted, from the minute Bob disappeared. I think what they wanted obviously included the house too.

The discussions Bob and Fontelle are said to have had with daughters about taking some of their mom's things is a different issue, I think. Bob was present then. Free to choose what he gave away and what he did not.

 

[Cubby]

The memorabilia list written by JuM and provided by the co-conservators attorney is marked as exhibit 4, on page 33, of the linked document in the attached post.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod-Court Documents No discussion

 

[Cubby]

Even though I have no experience with Californian estate administration, I still think it's unusual to see a man's possessions being disbursed to the family before he is declared dead. And with his wife still living in the home the items are taken from, too.

Respectfully snipped. While you were posting the above, I was wondering what was so sentimental about the small appliances in the pantry requested in the memorabilia list.

It's some list, and I agree it reads more like distributing the possesions of a deceased persons home more so than sentimental items of memorabilia.

 

[zwiebel]

I just wanted to add that I do think discussing the estate and what is happening to Fontelle is relevant to bringing Bob home; because supporting the family member who has done the most to keep his case alive is of fundamental importance.

I'm aware there has been a lot of online communication from daughters 'out there', but it does seem to largely lack specific detail, or any useful information to help searchers at all. I feel supporting their search for their father must be a very meandering and trying journey indeed. I'm full of admiration for anyone who has the patience.

 

[believe09]

I have cast the net regarding the concept of capitalizing on Geo-Caching to several resources and there is a great deal of enthusiasm!

I hope we can roll it out and get Bob home.

 

[minusfour]

Although for many reasons I disagree with the 'predominant think' re who is responsible for Mr Harrod's disappearance, I do believe that any new efforts towards locating him are certainly worth pursuing.

Thanks to those who are putting the focus more squarely on finding Mr Harrod instead of other stuff, and good luck with your geocache and hiking leads. I hope that your efforts will prove productive, most especially for his family and loved ones including Bob's sister. All of them need to find a resolution to this sorry case, wherever it leads and whatever its conclusion may eventually be.

~jmo~

Inspired by reading about Z's cake on another thread, I am trying to play catch up on Mr Harrod's disappearance- so far I'm about half way through this thread- so much information!- and I read the new post each day.
Shana, could I ask if you have a theory about what has happened to Mr Harrod? Thank you!

 

[zwiebel]

A very warm welcome, minusfour!

Don't let the mass of info overwhelm you - the most crucial bit is simple. Where is Bob? We can do with all the help we can get to answer that one and all contributions are most gratefully received!

 

[Oriah]

I have cast the net regarding the concept of capitalizing on Geo-Caching to several resources and there is a great deal of enthusiasm!

I hope we can roll it out and get Bob home.

I hit up REI and about 5 others that have specialized geocaching equipment/groups. About to head to our USFS meeting (we use lots for training and working purposes) and see what the Rangers can do for this lil project. I am very hopeful!

 

[sreshowtime]

IS there any known connection of anyone in the cast to Scouting? Boys....or even girls?
TIA

 

[zwiebel]

In the first Mrs Harrod's obituary linked below, it says she was actively involved with Job's Daughters and Brownies, so I guess her daughters were probably involved too.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Harrod&GSiman=1&GSob=c&GRid=25633173&

 

[sreshowtime]

thx z, missed that
hmm

 

[Cubby]

IS there any known connection of anyone in the cast to Scouting? Boys....or even girls?
TIA

Not sure if this helps or not, but JeM is from Ohio. He graduated HS in Monrovia, but I am not sure if he had any schooling in CA prior to HS. If he was a scout as a child, I'd assume it would have been back in Ohio. No idea if AH participated in any scouting.

IIRC, he (AH) had some kind of EMT flight training? I'm not certain though.