CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #18

[FBEye]

If Mr Montgomery is trying to discover what time Bob Harrod went missing, he's going to need a complete rainbow for those color-coded files he likes to keep.

You're not kidding, Zwiebel!
After watching the "Long Lost Love" episode repeatedly, I couldn't help but notice how many times clocks were shown in the background of the various scenes.
The clock that stuck out most to me was when Agnes starts to make Bob's mysteriously unmade bed at the 24:16 mark in the show. Agnes is stating that she was there altogether about three hours total during this scene- and the old fashioned clock on the bedside table in the background shows 4:35 (or it could be 5:00 depending on the placement of the second hand). Did anyone else catch this?
I'm thinking the narrator's statement of a 12 noon arrival might have been an error. Only Agnes, JeM, and LE would know for sure.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh gosh, I never even noticed those clocks in the background. Fine sleuth I am. I'd think in a missing person program, clocks and times wouldn't be something just left to chance, any old how in the background?

Up until it first aired, the main sources of information all pointed to the housekeeper arriving at 3pm. This belief went on for years. It was totally startling when the (reinstated) narration said she arrived at noon.

Note. When Bob's Disappeared first aired, it was in Australia, oddly. Without narration. Those guys could hardly make sense of it without that, but still jumped aboard here to try. That was so kind and I'll never forget it. Only when it aired in the US was the narration reinstated. I dont know, I just don't feel it could have been a mistake. like the white instead of black SUV that was shown, a person would have to be extremely careless to make a mistake like that, if you know what I mean?

 

[zwiebel]

In confidence - the night (for me) Bob's show aired this time, I tried to rush to my computer while putting on my lounging pants.

I put both legs in the same hole, ran at the same time and ended up on the floor, on top of a horrified dog (maybe now he'll stop following me!) with a twisted something in my thigh, very painful knee and a horrible carpet graze. I'm still limping. And I don't care.

 

[zwiebel]

There's a dozen useless reasons I could and have injured myself for. Bob's is a worthwhile cause.

 

[zwiebel]

Dying to know what color code Larry Montgomery files his timelines under. I'm guessing it's blue.

 

[zwiebel]

We are back to just one Robert missing. The 93 year old Robert has just been found deceased near his car that went off the highway.


http://www.marinij.com/marinnews/ci_25469843/car-missing-san-rafael-man-93-found-off

 

[Cubby]

Regarding the timeline. There was a teaser snippet on the Disappeared website a short time before Bob's episode was originally to be televised. It was only online for a short time, but it included a snippet of Agnes, iirc, stating she arrived around noon.

I have zero doubt it was the time Agnes stated. I have no doubt JuM's very first time posted, 'about 28 hours ago'- which was close to 10:am the day following Bob's disappearance was accurate. It was only later the time last seen became a moving target. I tie that into the family finding out a few days later JeM could not account for his time between 10 am and the housekeeper arriving to find the house empty. The timeline moved, imo, to coordinate with the 3pm'ish receipt JeM gave police.

Personally, I have no doubt JeM was involved, either directly being responsible for Bob's disappearance himself, or by covering up for his son. I have every reason to believe LE believes this as well, but simply does not yet have enough evidence to bring this case to trial.

Right now, I think too much exists for each of the M family to throw reasonable doubt back at each other, and that is what is probably holding up arrests.

 

[Cubby]

Here is the transcription from that first teaser about Bob's case being aired on Disappeared. Shortly after the video was put up, it was taken down because it was added in error. I think, but am not certain, it was taken down because it was added to the site too soon before Bob's case was to air.

The episode title was also changed from a sign of trouble, to long lost love.

Here is the transcript, originally posted by cloudajo':
Looks like Bob's story will be on Disappeared (Season 5). A clip of the show is posted on their website (watch video at link below). Agnes the housekeeper is interviewed and appears in clip. I did my best to transcribe the clip below.

===

Disappeared Season 5 - Sign of Trouble (Bob Harrod)

Clip (3:23) – Posted 4/26/12

(transcribed below)

Narrator: But Jeff was not the only person at Bob’s house that day. Agnes, Bob’s housekeeper of more than 10 years, arrived around Noon. Normally, she cleans Bob’s house on Tuesday, but this week she’d arranged to come on Monday.

Agnes: And he said that will be fine, I will be here, and Jeff is coming and he’s gonna to take care of a couple of things in the house before Fontelle comes. So I went to the house, knocked on the door, nobody answered, I looked in the mailbox because that’s where he normally leaves me the key, the key wasn’t there, so I sat on the bench in front of the house.

Narrator: The situation made her very uneasy. Nothing like this had ever happened before.

Agnes: Bob always was home when I went over there, or if, him and Georgia, they would always always tell me if they would not be home, and they put a key in the mailbox. But it was a very rare occasion that they were not home.

Narrator: After about 15 minutes, Jeff drove up to the house.

Agnes: I told him right away that, you know, that where Bob is, because he’s not answering the door. And Jeff was just asking me, “Are you supposed to be here today?” I said, “Yeah, Bob knew that I’m coming today.”

Narrator: Agnes was surprised to hear that Bob didn’t tell Jeff that she would be coming that day. As Jeff let her in the house, she began to feel that something was very wrong.

Agnes: I was really concerned at that point, I was afraid to go upstairs, I didn’t want to find anything. So I asked Jeff if he would go upstairs and see if Bob was there.

Narrator: Agnes waited at the bottom of the stairs while Jeff went up to have a look around.

Agnes: I thought he’s just going to look into the room, it takes a minute to go up, look into the room, and just see if Bob was there or not. But he actually ended up spending a couple of minutes there, so I thought maybe, you know, he find something, he find him there or something. So I yelled up, I said, “Is he there, is he ok?” And he said, ‘No, he’s not here.” And then he came back.

Narrator: Uncertain about what to do next, Agnes began cleaning, while Jeff resumed his repairs. As she worked her way around the house, she noticed something disturbing.

Agnes: When I went upstairs, I saw that in his bedroom, the bed was unmade, and never in the 10 years I worked for them, that happened before. It was just so out of character for him to not to make the bed, I just thought it was very strange.

Narrator: Deeply troubled, Agnes finished up and left, shortly after Jeff, who had also completed his work.

Agnes: I was there all together about 3 hours. I can honestly tell you that during the whole time I was there, I was very concerned. I kept thinking, where is he at?

Video Clip: http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/disappeared-sign-of-trouble.html

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

 

[travelbug]

Thank heavens for Agnes. She is the only consistent, reliable and impartial witness in this case. Without her LE would not know that JM was at the house that day, that Bob had no known plans to be away from the house or that JM seemed unconcerned about Bob's absence. Her presence certainly threw a monkey wrench in, what might have been, a foolproof plan.

 

[travelbug]

'prosecutors sought the dismissal as a procedural move so they can appeal Mullins having overturned a jury's verdict that Fischer is guilty of murder.'

This is the sentence at that link I cannot make sense of.

I think it is a strategic move to avoid "double jeopardy". If a perp is tried for murder and acquitted, they can never be tried again for the same crime. The dismissal opens the door for a retrial.

 

[travelbug]

Here you can see the summerhouse from the street side, left of the house, tucked under that tree.

Trouble is, it is pretty difficult to see how Bob might have been transported from the left, to any vehicle on the street or drive. He would have had to be taken across the front lawn, in front of any watching eyes or passers-by......a big risk, I think.

IMO The way fences are constructed in this area there would not be a gate on the side by the playhouse. The only gate would be on the side of the house next to the garage. If Bob was moved from the playhouse it would have been across the backyard and out to a vehicle in the driveway.

 

[zwiebel]

Two of these articles appear to have been written and originally published the Thursday after Bob's disappearance on the Monday. That seems to be the first time the housekeeper is mentioned, but it is only in relation to what son in law has told police about her arrival time.

It really doesn't seem to me that police had spoken to her then, (or weren't revealing that they had). So it does seem the orginal 3pm arrival time came from him and not direct from her. I was wondering if, being July, the housekeeper had gone on vacation and wasn't immediately available to be asked?

By October of that year though, police still seem to be giving media a 3pm arrival time for the housekeeper (see the middle article). Surely they would have spoken to her by then? But, up until Disappeared aired last year, there's not a single reference I can find of police quoting anything the housekeepr told them directly, or any reference to them having spoken to her at all about her arrival time. Except....in the Oct article below, police mention Bob speaking to her on the phone; 'told her to come'. Which I am guessing they could only have learned direct from her?

Thurs, July 30th 2009
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...r-Marrying-Childhood-Sweetheart-52086697.html
'For instance, she (Loomis ) said, Harrod's son in law told police he went to a Home Depot on Monday, and when he returned, Harrod was gone......Surveillance tape at Home Depot might corroborate that account'

Oct 2009
http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-bob-police-2598739-fontelle-michaels?
'Michaeals said he returned to the house after 3pm to find the Harrod's longtime maid sitting on the front stoop, saying the door was locked. Bob talked to the housekeeper on the phone earlier that morning and told her to come.'

Thurs, July 30th. 2009
http://www.ocregister.com/news/harrod-147900-loomis-family.html
'His receipt showed he paid for his items after 3pm, Loomis said...........When Michaels arrived back at Harrod's house, a housekeeper was sitting on the porch, waiting to be let in, Loomis said.'

 

[zwiebel]

Also, interestingly, the Oct article says;

'Michaels told police he thought Bob Harrod may have retired for a nap, and said he let himself and the maid in the back door. Bob Harrod wasn't in sight, but his keys and wallet were gone.'

http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-bob-police-2598739-fontelle-michaels?

Son in law wouldn't have needed to take spare keys with him on his shopping trip if Bob was in and he was expecting Bob to still be there when he got back. And as Bob appears to have taken his keys with him, I guess we have to accept Bob left the back door open and that's how son in law managed to let himself and the housekeeper in?

I'd have thought that might have set up a red flag for son in law. Bob's friend and neighbour said he always kept the back door locked, even when he was in the home.

 

[travelbug]

Two of these articles appear to have been written and originally published the Thursday after Bob's disappearance on the Monday. That seems to be the first time the housekeeper is mentioned, but it is only in relation to what son in law has told police about her arrival time.

It really doesn't seem to me that police had spoken to her then, (or weren't revealing that they had). So it does seem the orginal 3pm arrival time came from him and not direct from her. I was wondering if, being July, the housekeeper had gone on vacation and wasn't immediately available to be asked?

By October of that year though, police still seem to be giving media a 3pm arrival time for the housekeeper (see the middle article). Surely they would have spoken to her by then? But, up until Disappeared aired last year, there's not a single reference I can find of police quoting anything the housekeepr told them directly, or any reference to them having spoken to her at all about her arrival time. Except....in the Oct article below, police mention Bob speaking to her on the phone; 'told her to come'. Which I am guessing they could only have learned direct from her?

Thurs, July 30th 2009
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...r-Marrying-Childhood-Sweetheart-52086697.html
'For instance, she (Loomis ) said, Harrod's son in law told police he went to a Home Depot on Monday, and when he returned, Harrod was gone......Surveillance tape at Home Depot might corroborate that account'

Oct 2009
http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/harrod-bob-police-2598739-fontelle-michaels?
'Michaeals said he returned to the house after 3pm to find the Harrod's longtime maid sitting on the front stoop, saying the door was locked. Bob talked to the housekeeper on the phone earlier that morning and told her to come.'

Thurs, July 30th. 2009
http://www.ocregister.com/news/harrod-147900-loomis-family.html
'His receipt showed he paid for his items after 3pm, Loomis said...........When Michaels arrived back at Harrod's house, a housekeeper was sitting on the porch, waiting to be let in, Loomis said.'

BBM It wouldn't surprise me to find out that LE has intentionally avoided referencing the information they have from Agnes. Initially, the family probably acted as though they didn't have her last name or phone number. They wouldn't want LE speaking to her. She may have contacted LE herself when she learned Bob was missing. JM, JuM, PB, etc. would be allowed to incriminate themselves through inaccurate statements and timelines while LE kept what they learned from Agnes, Fontelle and any other potential witnesses a secret.

 

[zwiebel]

I think you must be right about that because there really is nothing out there from police quoting what the housekeeper told them, whereas even silent son in law was quoted a bit, initially. Until he ( presumably) clammed up.

 

[Eric's mom]

Thank heavens for Agnes. She is the only consistent, reliable and impartial witness in this case. Without her LE would not know that JM was at the house that day, that Bob had no known plans to be away from the house or that JM seemed unconcerned about Bob's absence. Her presence certainly threw a monkey wrench in, what might have been, a foolproof plan.

My son, Eric, disappeared in 2011. When family questioned his former girlfriend, we were given a story. When family questioned the motel owner where Eric stayed, we were given a completely different story. Had it not been for the motel owner's careful watch on his property, no one would have learned that my son did not check himself out, but his former girlfriend did. The motel owner even questioned her when she cleared my son's room out. It's good to know some people do take note of unusual "happenings" are willing to help.

 

[Seajay]

Not to muddied any waters, but I saw the ID, Dark Minds episode the other night about Israel Keyes. I'm going to do some checking as to when Keyes was in So. Cal, so we can rule that possibility out and concentrate on who we REALLY think is behind Bob's disappearance.

 

[zwiebel]

My son, Eric, disappeared in 2011. When family questioned his former girlfriend, we were given a story. When family questioned the motel owner where Eric stayed, we were given a completely different story. Had it not been for the motel owner's careful watch on his property, no one would have learned that my son did not check himself out, but his former girlfriend did. The motel owner even questioned her when she cleared my son's room out. It's good to know some people do take note of unusual "happenings" are willing to help.

I'm so sorry for your loss, Eric's mom. I hope you find him. Please let me know if there is anything I can do, and thank you for caring about another missing man, Bob Harrod, and taking the time to comment.

 

[zwiebel]

There has just been a murder conviction in this San B 2005 cold case. It came about because of a tip. Poor Mrs Kelley was suffocated during a burglary - suggested by someone angry at a drug deal gone wrong with Mrs Kelley's grandson.

Tips do work out. Cold cases get solved. There is hope for Bob.

http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/20140404/san-bernardino-man-convicted-of-90-year-old-womans-murder

 

[zwiebel]

National Crime Victims' Rights Week starts today. It is celebrating 30 years. My thoughts go out to all victims today, and a big, big thank you to all those volunteers and professionals, individuals and organizations, who work so hard to support victims.

There are lots of posters and logos etc, that are free to download and print here
http://ovc.ncjrs.gov/ncvrw2014/camera_ready.html