CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #18

[zwiebel]

What a neat idea, 'coffee with a cop'! (7am, wow!)

Neither Good Friday nor the Monday after Easter are holidays (or what I think the UK and other places may call 'bank holidays') in the US.

tcg

I think it's great too. But in Germany that would probably be time for 'second breakfast' (zweites fruhstuck), and they'd make a person eat wurst with the coffee.

The US doesn't seem to get half as many holidays as Europe. They work you guys too hard!

 

[zwiebel]

Coffee with a cop. Definitely something I would do. Got me wondering if there is a neighborhood watch program in Bob's neighborhood. Something definitely worth while to keep an eye on things. Especially after Bob having disappeared without a trace....

I'm dreaming of the day we see 'arrest/s' added to the title of this thread. Justice for Bob won't come soon enough.

There is a neighborhood watch, and I think it was operating in 2009. The only thing that might have helped poor Bob though, as far as I can see, is the 'evaluating landscape for places of concealment'....because someone had to get him out of that house, without a single person seeing.

http://placentia.org/index.aspx?NID=393

In my opinion, any close neighbors who saw anything that day would have come forward by now, if they thought they knew anything. The biggest problem to me seems to be people were never told what they should try and recall - no car/person description, no solid time of disappearance, no immediate description of what Bob was wearing......the list goes on and on.

 

[zwiebel]

What a neat idea, 'coffee with a cop'! (7am, wow!)

Neither Good Friday nor the Monday after Easter are holidays (or what I think the UK and other places may call 'bank holidays') in the US.

tcg

Yep, we do. Because it's the days when the banks would shut. ATMs have made that notion a bit redundant now though.

 

[zwiebel]

It's odd - has anyone noticed how there is often a little cluster of discoveries in some states, around the same time? I'm thinking it is maybe weather related (snows thaw, rains sweep surface soil away, etc).

I am just keeping my fingers crossed for Bob, that the weather might come to his aid one day too.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh dear, while looking up weather conditions, I see there is a distinct lack of hot air out San Diego way. Listen to that little cameraman giggling.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/n...-Air-Balloon-Landing-in-Street-256345181.html

 

[zwiebel]

The OC Reg has a twitter account, which I never knew. Nothing about Bob though. Just that terrible crash in Irvine and those (alleged) serial killers.

It may be useful for hearing about any remains located in the area though.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ocregister

The new LA Register also has one:

https://mobile.twitter.com/LARegisterNews

 

[zwiebel]

Keep your eyes out Monday/Tuesday folks. This is when we are likely to see how willing OC prosecutors are willing to negotiate on the death penalty for murder...or not. It's the Seal Beach killings of eight people in 20ll, and OC's awash with stories the alleged perp will plead guilty early next week, in return for the death penalty being taken off the table.

Here's a link. http://www.ocregister.com/articles/dekraai-611505-guilty-plea.html

I have to say, I had this story up and ready to run on Bob's website ages before the OC Reg. Unfortunately, my nearest and dearest who puts the stories up for me has suddenly decided to get addicted to a true crime series (out of nowhere, for the very first time!?). So I have been sat here like a lemon, just waiting. With my breaking news.....all broken.

Whaat does anyone think about the possibility of OC Prosecutors seeking the death penalty if they were to discover Bob's been murdered, and the person who did it?

 

[Opie]

Can we hope?

 

[zwiebel]

I sometimes wonder what Bob would advise us to do.

 

[zwiebel]

Can we hope?

What would you trade for Bob's location Opie, if you don't mind me asking?

I think I would even settle for probation, if someone would give up his location...though that would mean injustice and doesn't really make sense. But I so wish Bob could be found and brought home, and Fontelle could know what's happened to him, at last.

 

[zwiebel]

I suppose I would have to take into consideration if the person who did this to Bob was likely ever to do the same to anyone else, of course. And I don't know about that. I just don't know.

I do know if I thought someone had killed someone, no matter what the reason (money, rage, revenge) I wouldn't be happy in their company alone, or knowing they knew where I lived.

 

[Opie]

What would you trade for Bob's location Opie, if you don't mind me asking?

I think I would even settle for probation, if someone would give up his location...though that would mean injustice and doesn't really make sense. But I so wish Bob could be found and brought home, and Fontelle could know what's happened to him, at last.

You know, Z, I had not given consideration to that idea. I simply pray daily for Fontelle and that Bob will be found and justice served. Never really got into anything more specific. Would have to think about that.

Also need to once again thank you for keeping this thread going. I don't post often here, but check every day for any news.

 

[travelbug]

I suppose I would have to take into consideration if the person who did this to Bob was likely ever to do the same to anyone else, of course. And I don't know about that. I just don't know.

I do know if I thought someone had killed someone, no matter what the reason (money, rage, revenge) I wouldn't be happy in their company alone, or knowing they knew where I lived.

One of the most concerning things for me is the potential scope of family involvement. Although we have probably narrowed our potential perps down to 1 or 2, the number of people complicit in the cover up is much higher. Are the family members on the periphery remaining silent to protect their own guilt or out of fear for their own safety. If they are afraid, then the guilty must be incarcerated for the protection of everyone. What if this becomes an Agatha Christie plot, where all family members share a part of the blame. How do we mete out the punishment? Certainly, the loss of any claim to the estate will be significant punishment, but shouldn't all involved spend some time behind bars and be expected to relinquish all personal assets acquired through the use of Bob's funds? Just a few of my thoughts...

 

[zwiebel]

The ongoing saga of the Scott Dekraai case is making me worry that cases in OC are going to get even harder to investigate and prosecute. Justice has to be even handed of course, but I'm finding it a bit ironic that this case in particular may end up making the 'burden of proof' harder for the prosecution of other murder cases.

Unless I'm completely missing something, there is quite a lot of evidence in this case. I can't ever see hope of a prosecution in Bob's case if this one fails. You can only see the beginning of the article at the OC Reg unless you are a subscriber, but the link below has a good summary of the case and circumstances of the arrest of Dekraai.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/evidence-611494-prosecutors-defense.html

http://darkdeeds.susanfleet.com/blog_1.php?tag=scott+dekraai

 

[SweetT]

One of my sisters was so suspicious of what was going on that Department of Elder Social Services was contacted and they went out and conducted an interview with Dad. They found he was being abused but that he was apparently of sound enough mind to not want to wish to pursue it.

Who was abusing him? Do we know?

 

[SweetT]

Mmmm.

Just a quick read makes me think he killed for violent sex with females - which he didn't want to admit to, as per many sex predators - and for money. I'm sure JuM would have noticed anything of value missing from Bob's house, and I can't really imagine IK not taking anything.

JuM has gone about missing candelabras, but I can't imagine IK going for them when he had the contents of three safes, stamp collections, bags of gold coins etc to choose from.

I"m sorry I havent followed this case so my questions may have already been addressed but could the candleabras be a murder weapon and thats why they are missing?

 

[minusfour]

Travelbug- another Agatha Christie plot revolves around the plight of the innocent who are suspects when there is not enough evidence to arrest and prosecute a murderer! The unsolved crime casts a shadow on the lives of those close to the victim, which cannot be lifted until there is some judicial resolution, and they therefore became secondary "victims" of the murderer.
In that case though, they did not know who the murder was, (although they all had theories), and of course they were not complicit in any way, before or after the murder.

Zwei, has Mr Z suddenly become a true crime "addict"?

Zwei, may I also add my thanks to you, on behalf of Bob, and many other victims. You manage to combine dignity with iron fisted determination in the most amazing way, and I think your efforts are simply incredible. I do not believe that they will be wasted. (Forces of nature cannot be ignored, after all) I admire you, and have learnt so much from you!

 

[zwiebel]

I"m sorry I havent followed this case so my questions may have already been addressed but could the candleabras be a murder weapon and thats why they are missing?

I'm glad you haven't followed the case if it makes you come up with ideas like that. It never even crossed my mind, despite them being a well known murder weapon, at least in fiction.

I guess life is stranger than fiction though, and I bet there are several real-life instances too.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Travelbug- another Agatha Christie plot revolves around the plight of the innocent who are suspects when there is not enough evidence to arrest and prosecute a murderer! The unsolved crime casts a shadow on the lives of those close to the victim, which cannot be lifted until there is some judicial resolution, and they therefore became secondary "victims" of the murderer.
In that case though, they did not know who the murder was, (although they all had theories), and of course they were not complicit in any way, before or after the murder.

Zwei, has Mr Z suddenly become a true crime "addict"?

Zwei, may I also add my thanks to you, on behalf of Bob, and many other victims. You manage to combine dignity with iron fisted determination in the most amazing way, and I think your efforts are simply incredible. I do not believe that they will be wasted. (Forces of nature cannot be ignored, after all) I admire you, and have learnt so much from you!

Yes, but not in any way you or I could fully recognize, I think. He is fantastic at seeing any bigger 'background' pattern and putting it in order, but he'd make a terrible detective. He thinks everybody tells the truth, just about all the time. He has terrible trouble accepting anybody has been deceitful.

My 'iron-fisted' determination turned to cotton wool today. I have spent hours trying to discover exactly what is happening in the revived cold case murder trial for Cathy Torrez, a Placentia resident killed in 1994. I still don't know.

I did discover 'people' have been leaving a lot of posts over the years on social media though, declaiming how the arrested persons are completely, utterly, thoroughly law-abiding citizens though, and subtly criticizing Cathy's mom in her search for justice. Strangely enough, they all seem to have similar spelling mistakes.

Anyway, here's hoping there will be justice for Cathy, and for Bob. Placentia crimes do seem to get solved, even if they take a long time.......

 

[zwiebel]

One of my sisters was so suspicious of what was going on that Department of Elder Social Services was contacted and they went out and conducted an interview with Dad. They found he was being abused but that he was apparently of sound enough mind to not want to wish to pursue it.

Who was abusing him? Do we know?

I think we do. Or, I think I know who daughter was suggesting was abusing him. I think she deliberately did not name this person for fear of the legal consequences.

I haven't seen any documents/reports around from SS, confirming they found Bob was abused though, and Bob didn't seem to agree he was abused. I believe the 'abuse' in this context refers strictly to Bob giving away relatively small (in terms of his total fortune) amounts of his own money away to a woman and her family that he and his first wife had known for years.

Frankly, I wish he'd given her every cent he had. I think he would still be alive now if he'd done so. And I think Fontelle would still be his wife, but she'd have a husband by her side, rather than a missing one.