CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 3

[cloudajo]

Thanks cloudajo. The map is excellent! Gives us an excellent idea of possible places to search and what area's too keep in mind if we see info on remains found.


I was thinking about a map with a circle for an area but I suppose that might be too big of an area to map? I'm not good with doing the online maps so this is great! Did you ever see the ping map for John Spira's case? Just as an example of what I was thinking... it may or may not be possible. brb to link the map from John Spira's missing page.

eta: here is the link. Scroll down a little bit to see the map.
http://www.johnspira.com/

You mean something like the attached? Note that the outlying red markers represent how far someone could drive in 2 hours, 20 min. Distance will vary, depending on the roads taken, which is why some markers are out further than others. It's a bit different than if we had a cell phone tower ping with say, a 5 mile range.

 

[Fairy1]

Yes....I think that there are people who are genuinely looking for him, Fairy.

I think there were SAR searches done, fwiw-I doubt they were done with any kind of notification to the media. I dont have any inside info to that effect-just a strong suspicion because this detective is very on the ball. Now, air and ground scent will disappear within 3-5 days IIRC. So if we are looking for an ambulatory Bob, the critical piece for me is wondering when LE figured out this was not a runaway groom...if it took a few days, then evidence of him walking away from his home would be tough to get using a dog.

If we believe that Bob is currently unable to speak for himself, then cloudajo's map etc will be really really helpful in looking for possible place Bob might have been left on a Monday in July. To me, that is usually a busy day of the week regardless of where you are, and people are out an about. So where could he have been placed quickly that would not draw attention?

I'm sure you're right, believe09. I apologize - I was just getting frustrated with how certain people involved in this case seem to feel their time is better spent being in the spotlight than looking for Bob.

 

[Cubby]

You mean something like the attached? Note that the outlying red markers represent how far someone could drive in 2 hours, 20 min. Distance will vary, depending on the roads taken, which is why some markers are out further than others. It's a bit different than if we had a cell phone tower ping with say, a 5 mile range.

Yes, excellent thank you. That way we have an idea of what not to exceed within the 4.5 hour range.

Though that doesn't mean bob wasn't moved later.... but this gives us a starting point.

Can we find a list of places where we might find any kind of sportsman kind of activities to send out info, at least that Bob is still missing if perhaps someone notices something unusual.....

I think SIL also flies so that leaves a whole 'nother possibility of flying over the ocean and burying Bob at sea like Georgia was.

jmo

 

[cloudajo]

I was just reading back on some of the earlier posts by the daughters on IS (since removed).

• Daughter PB posted that she believed her youngest sister (JM) was the one that called OC Social Services (the 2nd time).
• Daughter RB posted “Just thought of this, perhaps Dad received a phone call from OC SS the day he disappeared.”

Just something to think about regarding who called and possibly when.

 

[Angelo]

Anyone help SIL dispose of a refrigerator, cooler or something fairly large that day? Was there construction dumpsters around in the area where a truck pulling up and dumping what looked like some kind of demolition or housing material wouldnt be questioned?

Daughter J was posting on a forum last year. On Sep. 2, 2009, about five weeks after her father went missing J posted that she was giving away a display case worth two thousand dollars for free.

Beautiful Oak Display Case 11 ft. L x 3 ft W x 4 1/2 ft tall.

J seemed very anxious to get rid of the display case and even bumped the post.

I found it strange because her father had just disappeared and she seemed eager to get rid of the display case. I also noted that J makes mention of donating money to ROTW if one was to have the display case delivered. Why not ask for a donation for a reward fund for her father?

There was a picture of the case with her post, since removed. It was a beautiful piece of furniture.

http://www.rimoftheworld.net/discuss/194/55175

 

[Cubby]

I was just reading back on some of the earlier posts by the daughters on IS (since removed).

• Daughter PB posted that she believed her youngest sister (JM) was the one that called OC Social Services (the 2nd time).
• Daughter RB posted “Just thought of this, perhaps Dad received a phone call from OC SS the day he disappeared.”

Just something to think about regarding who called and possibly when.

We know that LE has confirmed the phone calls the day Bob went missing and the last non family member to speak with Bob via phone happened at 10am. IF OCSS called the day he went missing it would have to have occured prior to 10am.

If the call occured on the 27th Bob may have mentioned it to whomever called at 10am. (we've presumed that to be the cleaning lady though that is not confirmed as LE did not release the name of the 10am caller.) I thought OCSS was contacted again Wednesday but I can't be certain of that.

My gut tells me the two J's are the ones involved. I don't believe/get the feeling P or R are, but that is just a gut feeling..... and jmo

jmo

 

[believe09]

I'm sure you're right, believe09. I apologize - I was just getting frustrated with how certain people involved in this case seem to feel their time is better spent being in the spotlight than looking for Bob.

((hugs, Fairy)) I know what you mean, and you are absolutely right that the time has come to stop feeding into that. So thank you for the reminder and look what we are starting to work on now!!!

 

[believe09]

Daughter J was posting on a forum last year. On Sep. 2, 2009, about five weeks after her father went missing J posted that she was giving away a display case worth two thousand dollars for free.

Beautiful Oak Display Case 11 ft. L x 3 ft W x 4 1/2 ft tall.

J seemed very anxious to get rid of the display case and even bumped the post.

I found it strange because her father had just disappeared and she seemed eager to get rid of the display case. I also noted that J makes mention of donating money to ROTW if one was to have the display case delivered. Why not ask for a donation for a reward fund for her father?

There was a picture of the case with her post, since removed. It was a beautiful piece of furniture.

http://www.rimoftheworld.net/discuss/194/55175

Does her lifestyle account for owning a display case the size of a room? OK I am exaggerating...but did they own a store? She states in her ad it was previously moved by two men. Maybe CA Exile can weigh in and let us know if it was something that was previously in Bob and Georgia's home...either in Placentia or Monrovia. :waitasec:

ETA: look what you started Angelo-now this is stuck in my head. Anyone know enough about the sisters to know why one of them would have an object like this?

 

[Fairy1]

We know that LE has confirmed the phone calls the day Bob went missing and the last non family member to speak with Bob via phone happened at 10am. IF OCSS called the day he went missing it would have to have occured prior to 10am.

If the call occured on the 27th Bob may have mentioned it to whomever called at 10am. (we've presumed that to be the cleaning lady though that is not confirmed as LE did not release the name of the 10am caller.) I thought OCSS was contacted again Wednesday but I can't be certain of that.

My gut tells me the two J's are the ones involved. I don't believe/get the feeling P or R are, but that is just a gut feeling..... and jmo

jmo

That would explain quite a lot. BUT, based on CA Exile's input here, it just seems so unlikely, IMO.

Then again, who knows whatever drives people to harm their own? We see that here everyday and for the most part, it all defies reason and explanation.

 

[Fairy1]

Daughter J was posting on a forum last year. On Sep. 2, 2009, about five weeks after her father went missing J posted that she was giving away a display case worth two thousand dollars for free.

Beautiful Oak Display Case 11 ft. L x 3 ft W x 4 1/2 ft tall.

J seemed very anxious to get rid of the display case and even bumped the post.

I found it strange because her father had just disappeared and she seemed eager to get rid of the display case. I also noted that J makes mention of donating money to ROTW if one was to have the display case delivered. Why not ask for a donation for a reward fund for her father?

There was a picture of the case with her post, since removed. It was a beautiful piece of furniture.

http://www.rimoftheworld.net/discuss/194/55175

Well, you're just FULL of all kinds of valuable information!!!

Thank you!

 

[suzyq211]

Map

• Yellow houses represent Bob’s and daughters’ houses. I did not use names or initials, just the town name.
• Red markers show approximately how far someone could go if driving 2 hours, 20 min from Bob’s house (total of 4 hours, 40 min round trip, if we base possible travel timeframe on just after 10AM phone call and just before 3PM). How far one could drive will vary depending on which roads/highways are taken. I just picked a few routes going out from Bob’s house in different directions to show a possible range.
• Red triangle shows approximate area where human bones were found on March 16, 2010 (Lucerne Valley near Harrod Road). From Placentia, it’s about 2 hours one way if Route 15 is taken, however, it’s a little more than 2 hours, 20 min via the route that goes by Running Springs.
• Pink markers show the Home Depot stores near Bob’s house. There are 3 and we don’t know which one SIL JM went to.
• Cyan markers show the CVS stores in the area. There are 4. (Rumor/hearsay SIL JM stopped at CVS Monday AM and bought soda and paper plates.)
• Blue markers show bodies of water. There are many and not all are marked.
• Green markers show forests/parks/recreational areas. There are many and not all are marked.

This is my first time trying this so I hope it works ok. Feedback is welcome.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=U...13,-117.773437&spn=4.949463,13.348389&t=h&z=7

Thanks for the map, Cloudajo!! I really had no idea where everyone/thing was in perspective to Placentia! Thanks again!!!

 

[cloudajo]

We know that LE has confirmed the phone calls the day Bob went missing and the last non family member to speak with Bob via phone happened at 10am. IF OCSS called the day he went missing it would have to have occured prior to 10am.

If the call occured on the 27th Bob may have mentioned it to whomever called at 10am. (we've presumed that to be the cleaning lady though that is not confirmed as LE did not release the name of the 10am caller.) I thought OCSS was contacted again Wednesday but I can't be certain of that.

My gut tells me the two J's are the ones involved. I don't believe/get the feeling P or R are, but that is just a gut feeling..... and jmo

jmo

According to daughter RB (posted on IS), an investigator from Social Services showed up at Bob’s house on Wed, two days after he went missing. She posted that "it was then she found out that their investigation might have been a day late and a dollar short". Note there is a 24-hour hotline.
-----------
Elder and Dependent Adult Abuse Reporting
[snipped]
Call Orange County Adult Protective Services 800-451-5155 (24-hour hotline)
After the report a social worker will respond immediately in an emergency or within 10 calendar days of the report.
Names of reporting parties are confidential and will not be revealed to the victim, their family or the alleged abuser.
----------
After the Report is Made
Each report is assigned to a Senior Social Worker for investigation and case planning. The assigned social worker attempts to have a private face-to-face meeting with the victim within 10 calendar days of the report.
Emergency Response is available 24 hours per day.
----------
Information on how the county adult protective service agency investigates reports of known or suspected abuse and neglect:

• Adult Protective Service (APS) agencies conduct investigations to determine the validity of the elder and dependent adult abuse reports it has accepted.
• The investigations are typically conducted by APS social workers, who attempt an "in-person" or face-to-face contact with the person reported or determined to be in need of adult protective services.
• If there is a report of an immediate life threat, imminent danger, or a crisis in an existing case, the APS worker will attempt to immediately make an in-person contact with the elder or dependent adult for purposes of intake or intervention.
• The APS worker will also provide an immediate in-person response when a local law enforcement agency requests it.
• There are certain circumstances when an in-person response is not required by an APS worker.

http://www.ocgov.com/ocgov/Social%20Services%20Agency/Abuse%20Reporting
http://www.ocgov.com/ocgov/Social%20Services%20Agency/Abuse%20Reporting/Elder%20Disabled/After%20The%20Report
http://www.ocgov.com/ocgov/Social%20Services%20Agency/Abuse%20Reporting/Elder%20Disabled/Why%20Report/Facts%20on%20Financial%20Abuse#infooninvestigation

 

[cloudajo]

Myspace Changed

Mood changed to I AM MISSING
http://www.myspace.com/robertharrodmissing

Blog now has entry for AMW and Placentia tip lines
http://www.myspace.com/robertharrodmissing/blog

Last update: 8/25/2010

 

[cloudajo]

Does her lifestyle account for owning a display case the size of a room? OK I am exaggerating...but did they own a store? She states in her ad it was previously moved by two men. Maybe CA Exile can weigh in and let us know if it was something that was previously in Bob and Georgia's home...either in Placentia or Monrovia. :waitasec:

ETA: look what you started Angelo-now this is stuck in my head. Anyone know enough about the sisters to know why one of them would have an object like this?

I was wondering if the display case had any evidence in it for any period of time and possible concern of any cadaver dog searches or forensic testing at their house. Hence the eagerness to get rid of it. May sound far-fetched but...

 

[Angelo]

I was wondering if the display case had any evidence in it for any period of time and possible concern of any cadaver dog searches or forensic testing at their house. Hence the eagerness to get rid of it. May sound far-fetched but...

I have the exact same thoughts on this!

 

[Angelo]

I was just reading back on some of the earlier posts by the daughters on IS (since removed).

• Daughter PB posted that she believed her youngest sister (JM) was the one that called OC Social Services (the 2nd time).
• Daughter RB posted “Just thought of this, perhaps Dad received a phone call from OC SS the day he disappeared.”

Just something to think about regarding who called and possibly when.

I have always wanted to know the date of the second call to SS.

Nothing came of the first call and that first call may very well be the cause for the six month estrangement.

If the second call was made after the heated Sunday meeting, was it made for a specific purpose such as pointing LE in a certain direction when someone turns up missing.

 

[Cubby]

According to daughter RB (posted on IS), an investigator from Social Services showed up at Bob’s house on Wed, two days after he went missing. She posted that "it was then she found out that their investigation might have been a day late and a dollar short". Note there is a 24-hour hotline.
-----------
Elder and Dependent Adult Abuse Reporting
[snipped]
Call Orange County Adult Protective Services 800-451-5155 (24-hour hotline)
After the report a social worker will respond immediately in an emergency or within 10 calendar days of the report.
Names of reporting parties are confidential and will not be revealed to the victim, their family or the alleged abuser.
----------
After the Report is Made
Each report is assigned to a Senior Social Worker for investigation and case planning. The assigned social worker attempts to have a private face-to-face meeting with the victim within 10 calendar days of the report.
Emergency Response is available 24 hours per day.
----------
Information on how the county adult protective service agency investigates reports of known or suspected abuse and neglect:

• Adult Protective Service (APS) agencies conduct investigations to determine the validity of the elder and dependent adult abuse reports it has accepted.
• The investigations are typically conducted by APS social workers, who attempt an "in-person" or face-to-face contact with the person reported or determined to be in need of adult protective services.
• If there is a report of an immediate life threat, imminent danger, or a crisis in an existing case, the APS worker will attempt to immediately make an in-person contact with the elder or dependent adult for purposes of intake or intervention.
• The APS worker will also provide an immediate in-person response when a local law enforcement agency requests it.
• There are certain circumstances when an in-person response is not required by an APS worker.

http://www.ocgov.com/ocgov/Social%20Services%20Agency/Abuse%20Reporting
http://www.ocgov.com/ocgov/Social%20Services%20Agency/Abuse%20Reporting/Elder%20Disabled/After%20The%20Report
[URL="http://www.ocgov.com/ocgov/Social%20Services%20Agency/Abuse%20Reporting/Elder%20Disabled/Why%20Report/Facts%20on%20Financial%20Abuse#infooninvestigation"]http://www.ocgov.com/ocgov/Social%20Services%20Agency/Abuse%20Reporting/Elder%20Disabled/Why%20Report/Facts%20on%20Financial%20Abuse#infooninvestigation[/URL]

Makes sense... and if this was the 2nd time they called, I would think they'd be aware of the 24 hour emergency response having spoken with this agency previously.

 

[Cubby]

I was wondering if the display case had any evidence in it for any period of time and possible concern of any cadaver dog searches or forensic testing at their house. Hence the eagerness to get rid of it. May sound far-fetched but...

excellent points! My mind must be too much on back to school. I hadn't even thought of that!

 

[believe09]

Is this a curio style cabinet or sideboard?? I did not see the original photo, sad to say. Let's say for the sake of argument that this was a piece of furniture that belonged to a large-in-scale dining room set Bob and Georgia owned.

It is quite a leap from that to possible evidence...if SIL had a normal sized truck, 11 feet would over hang the bed when carried from the home. It would be interesting to know if this piece, provided it was indeed owned by Bob, was stored in the garage with all of the other clutter that was there. And if it was there, when was it removed.

This is really interesting.

 

[suzyq211]

I was wondering if the display case had any evidence in it for any period of time and possible concern of any cadaver dog searches or forensic testing at their house. Hence the eagerness to get rid of it. May sound far-fetched but...

Far-fetched???? Not in the LEAST!!!