CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #2

[Flutterby80]

We should not forget that Asperger’ was connected with this family system since 1999. It’s just hard to imagine that the theme of Asperger’s throughout was not an issue. Elliot refers on more than one occasion to his discussion regarding “socialization” with a multitude of professionals. The notion that Asperger’s had not cast its dark shadows on all involved , for years, just…………….makes no sense!


Our society is going to have to accept that the lack of resources this country is allocating to mental illness, is woefully inadequate. If this was a rare thing I could grasp the dialog going on in the media. . For everyone who has not concluded this is untreated mental illness- fine- what are those folks explanation for what is going on in this country?


As you all know, I am quit fond of dialog and differing opinions! All things have causation. If we want to use slang (makes one feel better?) we can say he was just a “psycho “– fine that is mental illness. If we want to say he was a “lunatic” – fine that is mental illness. If we want to say he was just “crazy” – fine that is a mental illness. If we want to say he was a “madman” – fine that is mental illness. If we want to say he was “insane” fine that is mental illness.


For some reason autism is a personal choice?. Does anyone chose to be a lunatic,psyco,or insane. Same thing here. His parents did everything they could. Why was there no dialog about Lanzas mom before he murdered her? How come Holmes parents were not mauled in the media? Where was the rage at Luka’ family? I do not recall an uproar regarding Laoughner’ parents either.


What has been so mind numbing in this case is mom tried two times in three weeks to make sure he was not falling down. What else could she have done? It is the system (our system) that failed here, not mom, not dad, not Elliot,not the cops (per the system).


So now what do we do?



It’s like toaster ovens with a red wire in them keep catching on fire, but our society says the red wire is not the issue. If we do not address the red wire, and toaster ovens with red wires have a tendency to catch fire it is logical to conclude that toasters with red wires will continue to catch fire! WOW that was a sentence!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think most of us are using words like psycho and lunatic really. We (me, anyway, I don't want to speak for everyone) are using words like mental illness and behavior disorders because it is obvious that he had something, but we do not know what. Could be autism, but I in no way believe that would be the stand-alone diagnosis.

No. Way.

Until I see concrete evidence that he had been diagnosed with something in particular, I am not going to pretend to know WTH was wrong with Elliot Rodger.

 

[Bernina]

We should not forget that Asperger’ was connected with this family system since 1999. It’s just hard to imagine that the theme of Asperger’s throughout was not an issue. Elliot refers on more than one occasion to his discussion regarding “socialization” with a multitude of professionals. The notion that Asperger’s had not cast its dark shadows on all involved , for years, just…………….makes no sense!


Our society is going to have to accept that the lack of resources this country is allocating to mental illness, is woefully inadequate. If this was a rare thing I could grasp the dialog going on in the media. . For everyone who has not concluded this is untreated mental illness- fine- what are those folks explanation for what is going on in this country?


As you all know, I am quit fond of dialog and differing opinions! All things have causation. If we want to use slang (makes one feel better?) we can say he was just a “psycho “– fine that is mental illness. If we want to say he was a “lunatic” – fine that is mental illness. If we want to say he was just “crazy” – fine that is a mental illness. If we want to say he was a “madman” – fine that is mental illness. If we want to say he was “insane” fine that is mental illness.


For some reason autism is a personal choice?. Does anyone chose to be a lunatic,psyco,or insane. Same thing here. His parents did everything they could. Why was there no dialog about Lanzas mom before he murdered her? How come Holmes parents were not mauled in the media? Where was the rage at Luka’ family? I do not recall an uproar regarding Laoughner’ parents either.


What has been so mind numbing in this case is mom tried two times in three weeks to make sure he was not falling down. What else could she have done? It is the system (our system) that failed here, not mom, not dad, not Elliot,not the cops (per the system).


So now what do we do?



It’s like toaster ovens with a red wire in them keep catching on fire, but our society says the red wire is not the issue. If we do not address the red wire, and toaster ovens with red wires have a tendency to catch fire it is logical to conclude that toasters with red wires will continue to catch fire! WOW that was a sentence!!!!!!!!!!

Where's the link for a valid ASD diagnosis? A soon to be ex wife's divorce document?'
"Socialization" skills can be connected to anyone, with or without MI.

As pointed out by the MOD, where is your link from MSM to validate?

 

[MyBelle]

He had "issues" with his step mom. It's all over his manifesto. She took the decision making out of his father's hands and ER couldn't manipulate her. ER's father also backed up step mom's actions. ER get's extremely enraged when she kicks him out of his father's house and "forbade" him from visiting....."NO! I am the eldest son! This house should be MY house before hers!"........"This b***h must be really good to him in bed, I figured. What a weak man." Pg 62.

I think he actually hated her from day one because he thought she had replaced him as the center of his father's world.:twocents:

I think any child trying to live with a step-parent would be very upset if their parent's spouse--rather than the parent--kicked the child from the parent's house. I think any child living with a step-parent would get upset if the step-parent made a big deal over the fact that the child entered the house without knocking first. I can certainly understand why the child might view it all as a betrayal. We also do not know what was true, what was embellished, what may have never happened at all.

I think we all need to remember that the only thing we've learned is written by the child. I'm not aware that he was ever diagnosed with a mental illness. His writing shared his perception; his version of reality.

I hope something positive will come from this tragedy. The idea that such a troubled kid would be placed in close living arrangement with other college students without them having a clue as to his history is happening on college campuses everywhere and the practice needs to change.

JMO

 

[CARIIS]

If they want to can they just not release the autopsies forever? Would they have to give a reason?

It seems like a really long time and not one word - and not one quesiton by the media either?

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Partial quote from MyBelle: "I hope something positive will come from this tragedy. The idea that such a troubled kid would be placed in close living arrangement with other college students without them having a clue as to his history is happening on college campuses everywhere and the practice needs to change."
Amen to that!

 

[Suthrnqt]

Guys - ER has not been officially diagnosed that I am aware of? Is there a link to the official diagnoses?

Also - if you are posting as a professional, you need to be verified. If you do not wish to be verified, then you need to link your statements.

To become a verified poster, please see the thread here: Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Salem

Thank you for this Salem.

 

[MyBelle]

We should not forget that Asperger’ was connected with this family system since 1999. It’s just hard to imagine that the theme of Asperger’s throughout was not an issue. Elliot refers on more than one occasion to his discussion regarding “socialization” with a multitude of professionals. The notion that Asperger’s had not cast its dark shadows on all involved , for years, just…………….makes no sense!


Our society is going to have to accept that the lack of resources this country is allocating to mental illness, is woefully inadequate. If this was a rare thing I could grasp the dialog going on in the media. . For everyone who has not concluded this is untreated mental illness- fine- what are those folks explanation for what is going on in this country?


As you all know, I am quit fond of dialog and differing opinions! All things have causation. If we want to use slang (makes one feel better?) we can say he was just a “psycho “– fine that is mental illness. If we want to say he was a “lunatic” – fine that is mental illness. If we want to say he was just “crazy” – fine that is a mental illness. If we want to say he was a “madman” – fine that is mental illness. If we want to say he was “insane” fine that is mental illness.


For some reason autism is a personal choice?. Does anyone chose to be a lunatic,psyco,or insane. Same thing here. His parents did everything they could. Why was there no dialog about Lanzas mom before he murdered her? How come Holmes parents were not mauled in the media? Where was the rage at Luka’ family? I do not recall an uproar regarding Laoughner’ parents either.


What has been so mind numbing in this case is mom tried two times in three weeks to make sure he was not falling down. What else could she have done? It is the system (our system) that failed here, not mom, not dad, not Elliot,not the cops (per the system).


So now what do we do?



It’s like toaster ovens with a red wire in them keep catching on fire, but our society says the red wire is not the issue. If we do not address the red wire, and toaster ovens with red wires have a tendency to catch fire it is logical to conclude that toasters with red wires will continue to catch fire! WOW that was a sentence!!!!!!!!!!

BBM. I say baloney on that one. Let's not be hasty and be placing blame about lack of "resources" or failure of a "system" when we already know the commission of this crime was facilitated by the perp's ready access to funds he used to purchase lottery tickets long before he purchased weapons/ammo and a luxury automobile used as a setting for the multiple videos now shared worldwide. This case has nothing to do with our governmental systems or resources.


JMO

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I'm not sure how change will happen though. ER lived in off campus housing. Roommate matching is done, but is very primitive at best. "Do you study with music on?", etc trying to match people up by whether they're nocturnal or not, and if they like silence. Oh and if a coed roommate is acceptable. Most info is protected by HIPPA. I'd hate to see kids stigmatized and further ostracized. I think we need to pay attention more and stop the kid code that promotes silence. If teens/young adults can speak freely and openly then maybe we'll see change. And more money needs to be funneled into mental health. Sorry, rambling... I just don't know what to do. Not feeling hopeful.

 

[CARIIS]

I am not sure what I am validating? I was referring to the divorce papers refercing (you can find that link in the threads by several posters) wherein ASD was reported. I am not making a diagnosis just discussing that the discussion regarding ASd has been wildly discussed in the media.

I just read Salim post and will have no problems linking any of the information I post! I have no "need" or "want" to be a verified anything! That came out funny!!

1. Elliot Rodger Didn't Have Autism. He Had Anger

[FONT=&quot]Forbes[/FONT] ‎- by Emily Willingham ‎- 6 hours ago
**After reading the manifesto of [FONT=&quot]Elliot Rodger[/FONT], the 22-year-old man who murdered six people around UC Santa Barbara last week, many ...

• • Let's Not Blame [FONT=&quot]Autism[/FONT] for Isla Vista Rampage

[FONT=&quot]The Jewish Journal of Greater L.A.[/FONT]‎ - 1 day ago

• • [FONT=&quot]Autism[/FONT] and Some Unfounded Myths

[FONT=&quot]Guardian Liberty Voice[/FONT]‎ - 1 day ago
s

2. Actually, No, Elliot Rodger Was Never Diagnosed With Autism

[FONT=&quot]thedailybanter.com/.../report-mass-murderer-elliot-rodger-never...[/FONT]
by Ben Cohen - in 46 Google+ circles
2 days ago - Since last Friday's murderous rampage at UCSB, it has been widely reported that mass murderer [FONT=&quot]Elliot Rodger[/FONT] had an [FONT=&quot]Autism[/FONT] Spectrum ...
3. Stop blaming Asperger's Syndrome for Elliot Rodger's ...

[FONT=&quot]www.autismdailynewscast.com/stop...aspergers...elliot-rodgers.../shanellis...[/FONT]
4 days ago - [FONT=&quot]Elliot[/FONT]-[FONT=&quot]Rodger[/FONT]-[FONT=&quot]Aspergers[/FONT]-Syndrome-To-Be-The-Scapegoat- A troubled young man who shot six U.C. Santa Barbara students and injured 13 ...
4. Don't Blame Asperger's for Massacres - The Daily Beast

[FONT=&quot]www.thedailybeast.com/.../don-t-blame-asperger-s-for-m...[/FONT]
The Daily Beast
3 days ago - First Adam Lanza, now [FONT=&quot]Elliot Rodger[/FONT]—both reported as having [FONT=&quot]Asperger's[/FONT]. But making the leap from an [FONT=&quot]autism[/FONT] spectrum disorder to violence ...
5. Did Elliot Rodger Have Asperger's? Maybe, But Either Way ...

[FONT=&quot]www.bustle.com/.../25873-did-elliot-rodger-have-aspergers-maybe-but-e...[/FONT]
5 days ago - At least, those are all things that drew media and others to 22-year-old [FONT=&quot]Elliot Rodger[/FONT], who murdered six students near to the University of ...
6. Why it doesn't matter if Elliot Rodger had autism or not



As pointed out by the MOD, where is your link from MSM to validate?[/quote]

 

[Bernina]

Do you know what the latest official LE statement is about ER's mental health status?

I think that is what we need to know.

MOO.

May 25, 2014
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-frantic-parents-isla-vista-shootings-20140525-story.html

Astaire said Elliot had not been diagnosed with Asperger’s but the family suspected he was on the spectrum, and had been in therapy for years. He said he knew of no other mental illnesses, but Elliot truly had no friends, as he said in his videos and writings.

May 30. 2014 http://www.forbes.com/sites/emilywillingham/2014/05/30/elliot-rodger-didnt-have-autism-he-had-anger/

"........Just after the shootings, the family’s attorney made a statement claiming that Rodger had a diagnosis of Asperger’s. However, a media advisor providing an “account on behalf of the family in an interview with the Los Angeles Times” backtracked on that a day later, saying instead that Rodger “had not been diagnosed with Asperger’s.”

 

[MyBelle]

I'm not sure how change will happen though. ER lived in off campus housing. Roommate matching is done, but is very primitive at best. "Do you study with music on?", etc trying to match people up by whether they're nocturnal or not, and if they like silence. Oh and if a coed roommate is acceptable. Most info is protected by HIPPA. I'd hate to see kids stigmatized and further ostracized. I think we need to pay attention more and stop the kid code that promotes silence. If teens/young adults can speak freely and openly then maybe we'll see change. And more money needs to be funneled into mental health. Sorry, rambling... I just don't know what to do.

Any housing--whether it be off-campus or dorms run by someone making a PROFIT from it--needs better oversight from the University and any other school from which the students are targeted as tenants. If the University doesn't provide oversight of their crude "matching" process, then it needs to be disclosed and a warning attached.

The issue is safety as well as peace of mind to the parent, who are no doubt having to contribute financially to the cost of education.

JMO

 

[Suthrnqt]

If they want to can they just not release the autopsies forever? Would they have to give a reason?

It seems like a really long time and not one word - and not one quesiton by the media either?

What are you looking for in the autopsy reports?? We already know how all the victims died.
Unless you are wanting ER's toxicology report, is that it?

 

[CARIIS]

I think most can only come to the conclusion that mental health has some component in this story. After the last week it would be hard to understand anyone, at this point, remaining confused or in doubt that there appears to be mental illness component of this tragedy. It is pretty clear,,,sadly…



The Times that his mother had contacted his therapist in April,
The family friend said the therapist
county to provide officers with so-called crisis-intervention training (CIT) that has been utilized elsewhere to help officers detect signs of mental illness,
Mental-Health Lessons Emerge from Isla Vista Slayings
[FONT=&quot]HIPAA permits the [/FONT]mental health professional[FONT=&quot] to alert[/FONT]
California killings renew call for police mental health training

Rodger[FONT=&quot] began rejecting the [/FONT]mental health[FONT=&quot] care that[/FONT]
Spotlights Therapists' 'Duty to ...

[FONT=&quot]e talking about [/FONT]mental health[FONT=&quot] issues and dealing with [/FONT]getting

[FONT=&quot]s [/FONT]services[FONT=&quot] for the [/FONT]mentally[FONT=&quot] ill, s[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]https://www.google.com/#q=law+enforcment+got+call+from+mental+helath+provider+rodgers[/FONT]
http://time.com/121682/isla-vista-shooting-elliot-rodger/
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-rodger-welfare-20140530-story.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/27/changing-mental-health-laws/9638529/

It is kind of just "there"!

 

[CARIIS]

What are you looking for in the autopsy reports?? We already know how all the victims died.
Unless you are wanting ER's toxicology report, is that it?

I am wanting to know if the roomates were killed like one then 9 hours later then he invites the visitor over. And I am sorry , but (some of it is I dont think they should have the choice to like hide what really happened) but I just feel like there was more than a stabbing and the public has the right to know the truth. What do you think?

And I dont know , may be off here, but there has been nothing about autopsy on any of this --like was it self inflicted does it matter not like really but kinda just in public right to know

 

[Nymeria]

Anyone out there watch "Game of Thrones" or read "A Song of Ice and Fire" series? Wondering if there's a connection to ER's attitude about women and the "alleged" misogyny, the portrayal of women, and the gender distribution of the readership and viewership that started a heated critical response with HBO's adaptation of the books.

Never watched or read either myself.

There was a bit of an uproar a couple episodes ago when a scene was depicted in which many people considered it rape. It also deviated from the books from what I understand (my son will not let me read ahead of the series :tantrum: , scared I will leak a spoiler, lol).
I find it funny that everyone was so upset about it when the 2 people involved are a twin brother and sister who have been sleeping together for years and have children. but he pushed her into sex and they are going nuts about it.... :facepalm:

Anyway, there are also women on that show who are just as strong as the men. There are more than a few who are as bad@ss as the men on the show.
And yes there is a lot of degrading of certain women (prostitutes, lower class/serf type women, or just any woman who may end up in a bad situation). It has to be noted the books/series are set in a fantasy world that is similar to medieval times, so in that respect I doubt it is that much different from actual history in terms of how women are treated.

I guess my point is....Don't blame a TV show and or Books he may have read.
There are millions out there who enjoy it and have not gone on rampages.
For those with mental issues who watch it and see things in different ways, that can not be helped.


ETA- I am a bit passionate about this subject, as my user name is from the books :blushing:

 

[Quester]

:bump: :bump: HTH

From SBCSO, BBM:

05/29/2014 Updated Information on Isla Vista Mass Murder Case

April 30, 2014 “Check the Welfare” Call

At approximately 10:17 p.m. on Wednesday, April 30, 2014, the Santa Barbara County Emergency Communications Center received a call from a mental health staff member assigned to answer the Santa Barbara County Alcohol, Drug and Mental Health Toll Free Access Line. The staff member requested deputies check the welfare of 22-year-old Elliot Rodger, who lived at an apartment in the 6500 block of Seville Road in Isla Vista. The staff member said she had been contacted by a person who identified himself as a friend of Elliot Rodger. Based on information from the caller and Elliot Rodger’s mother, the staff member on the Mental Health hot line requested a welfare check on Elliot Rodger.
...

The Current State of the Investigation

This is one of the most complex investigations in the history of the Santa Barbara County Sheriff’s Office. Sheriff’s detectives are conducting numerous interviews and processing a huge amount of evidence in the case. Due to the fact that this investigation is ongoing, no further information related to the case will be released at this time. The Sheriff-Coroner’s Office is conducting a complete death investigation on all six victims and the suspect. The Coroner’s Office will not be releasing any further information, including autopsy reports and toxicology results related to the death investigations, until they are complete.

http://www.sbsheriff.org/05291401.html

 

[momrids6]

:bump: :bump: HTH

From SBCSO, BBM:

05/29/2014 Updated Information on Isla Vista Mass Murder Case

April 30, 2014 “Check the Welfare” Call

The staff member said she had been contacted by a person who identified himself as a friend of Elliot Rodger. Based on information from the caller and Elliot Rodger’s mother, the staff member on the Mental Health hot line requested a welfare check on Elliot Rodger.
...

rsbm/bbm: Identified himself as a friend. Not a therapist.

 

[MyBelle]

I am wanting to know if the roomates were killed like one then 9 hours later then he invites the visitor over. And I am sorry , but (some of it is I dont think they should have the choice to like hide what really happened) but I just feel like there was more than a stabbing and the public has the right to know the truth. What do you think?

And I dont know , may be off here, but there has been nothing about autopsy on any of this --like was it self inflicted does it matter not like really but kinda just in public right to know

I'm curious why you think the public has some kind of "right to know" the specific details about someone's death? We know the killer's identity and that he is not a danger to anyone else. What else about it does the public really need to know?

 

[Quester]

rsbm/bbm: Identified himself as a friend. Not a therapist.

Yep - and not a mom!

 

[shana]

I've not had time to keep-up here on the threads so I am not sure if it has been mentioned that Sheriff Bill Brown is up for re-election in early June (soon).

As a voter, I am not so sure anymore...despite the Indy's endorsement and my own review prior to this dreadful event.

Given the laws re Mental Health as they are, I still find a problem with the well-being check. Perhaps LE was not versed in social media and didn't look, but that there was no registered gun check is highly troubling.

Sheriff appears too much of an apologist for his dept than I'm comfortable with.

fwiw/jmo