CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

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What I linked says:

“Honey also had a brief call with her sister Mary.

Honey had suggested she drop by Mary's that evening before going home. But Mary was not feeling well, and they decided to catch up in Florida the following week. That haunts Mary to this day.”

From Suspicion: Murder on Mount Olive: S2 The Billionaire Murders | E3 The Day They Died, Apr 14, 2023
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podca...ount-olive/id1622407472?i=1000608658352&r=572
This material may be protected by copyright.



Thia does not say Honey invited Mary over, and it does not say Honey suggested moving a meeting to Mary’s. It says that shortly before Honey was murdered, she spoke with Mary by phone. She suggested dropping by Mary’s and they decided against it.

If you have some other source that states otherwise, can you please point it out directly?
 
I agree. Together with missing some meetings it does, indeed, seem as if their Shermans life plans had changed and maybe HS wanted M to be present.

At the same time, here is the sister who is very close. Would one show up if asked? What made M refuse? Why did H not insist either?

If H asked to have the meeting in M’s house, even more interesting. She moved the first meeting at Apotex and wanted to have another one in sister’s house.

It is as if she wanted to stay away from her house?
Allegedly, the sisters were so verrry close and did so many things together. Therefore it sounds odd, if Honey suggested to Mary to visit her on her way home from Apotex, and Mary answered, she wasn't feeling well and packing and better no visit by her sister.
A bit odd sounds also, when the "very close" sisters from the same city Toronto to the same destination in Florida (IF) were flying in different planes. Probably not important, but after so many years I'm suddenly stumbling over it .... MOO
 
Does anyone know, how were Barry and Honey Sherman's relationships with their neighbours?
Every interview I’ve read or seen with their neighbours was very positive, they loved them. The Shermans had an open house prior to the murders, and one neighbour said they went there just to be nosy. Honey and Barry were both there and welcomed them.

At the time of the murders, there was a lowball offer of $5 million on the house that was rejected by Barry. A woman who lived nearby did ultimately buy the lot from the heirs, but we don’t know yet if they were the ones that submitted that initial offer.
 
Allegedly, the sisters were so verrry close and did so many things together. Therefore it sounds odd, if Honey suggested to Mary to visit her on her way home from Apotex, and Mary answered, she wasn't feeling well and packing and better no visit by her sister.
A bit odd sounds also, when the "very close" sisters from the same city Toronto to the same destination in Florida (IF) were flying in different planes. Probably not important, but after so many years I'm suddenly stumbling over it .... MOO
It’s surprising to me that HS would have suggested going to MS house that night, for 2 reasons.
First, the traffic from Apotex to MS’ house in Forest Hill would have been crazy at around 6pm on a cold Wednesday night a week before Christmas with possibly snow falling. No one would choose to fight that traffic.
Second, I thought BS was supposed to leave work early that night to go home early, presumably to meet HS there for some reason? If HS went to MS’ house, how could she be at home to meet BS?
 
There are different perspectives on “coming home early”.

Some people place heavy reliance on the builders’ recollection that Barry needed to go home early and therefore his arrival at home was earlier than usual.

Others place heavy reliance on witnesses’ statements to police about Barry’s normal departure time, and therefore his arrival at home was about the same as usual.

Both point to witnesses’s statements about Barry’s habit of working very late at night, but those in the first category prefer to believe that in late 2017 he did this work from his office, while those in the second category prefer to believe that in late 2017 he did this from his home. A lot turns on the highly personal interpretation of what it means to work late.
 
I am going to list the things that I consider unusual activities that some people claim, occurred around the time of the deaths.
  1. Honey misses a charity meeting.
  2. Barry says he has to go home early for some reason.
  3. Honey wants to visit her sister, but does not.
  4. Jon takes a picture of his hand showing a time stamp.
  5. Two SUV's and four men arrive next door.
  6. Sherman's murdered by strangulation, ligatures removed
  7. Bodies staged in unique way.
  8. Lawyer call Sherman home around 9:00pm, no answer.
  9. NW is seen around the house, and declared a suspect.
  10. Man and vehicle show up at home next day, likely LE, following up on a 911 call.
Is there some other unusual event that I missed?

Each of these events on there own are easily explained, however if they are combined in some way, do they lead somewhere significant?

For example, combining 1,2, and 3, it points to some urgency for the Sherman's to be home that evening. Are 5 and 9 related? Are 4 and 7 related?

Why would you stage the bodies, leave the leather belts, but take the ligatures? Were the ligatures special and could they lead to somebody?
 
Why would you stage the bodies, leave the leather belts, but take the ligatures? Were the ligatures special and could they lead to somebody?
This is my take, FWIW:
6. I think that the murderer(s) brought the ligatures with them. They are light and easily hidden and transported. Anybody can buy some type of zip-tie/flex-cuffs on amazon, but I think that they type of ligature used likely had a connected to state-sponsored training, such as military, intelligence, or even police, since it was what the contractor was familiar with. The belts were just to temporarily throw off LE.
7. I think that the perps staged the scene as a murder-suicide with the goal of confusing the investigation. The staging created just enough delay (bodies not found right away) and confusion (initial murder-suicide/double-suicide assumption) to misdirect the investigation and compromise forensic evidence. I think the murderer(s) knew that eventually LE would figure out there was evidence of homicide, but the delay and confusion would help. I am on the fence about whether the bodies were staged to look like the sculptures. The pool room was large so there was room to stage and it also would delay finding the bodies. I don't know if the m/s staging would have worked as well on the spiral staircase. And the murderer had no way of knowing that the Toronto police were occupied with the MacArthur murder case and that no doubt helped the confusion.

A couple of other facts I would add to your list, not so much because they are "unusual" but because I think they are part of the timing puzzle:
Jonathon was abroad until ? I can't remember--day of, or day before?
The Shermans were scheduled to leave separately for Florida the following week
 
This is my take, FWIW:
6. I think that the murderer(s) brought the ligatures with them. They are light and easily hidden and transported. Anybody can buy some type of zip-tie/flex-cuffs on amazon, but I think that they type of ligature used likely had a connected to state-sponsored training, such as military, intelligence, or even police, since it was what the contractor was familiar with. The belts were just to temporarily throw off LE.
7. I think that the perps staged the scene as a murder-suicide with the goal of confusing the investigation. The staging created just enough delay (bodies not found right away) and confusion (initial murder-suicide/double-suicide assumption) to misdirect the investigation and compromise forensic evidence. I think the murderer(s) knew that eventually LE would figure out there was evidence of homicide, but the delay and confusion would help. I am on the fence about whether the bodies were staged to look like the sculptures. The pool room was large so there was room to stage and it also would delay finding the bodies. I don't know if the m/s staging would have worked as well on the spiral staircase. And the murderer had no way of knowing that the Toronto police were occupied with the MacArthur murder case and that no doubt helped the confusion.

A couple of other facts I would add to your list, not so much because they are "unusual" but because I think they are part of the timing puzzle:
Jonathon was abroad until ? I can't remember--day of, or day before?
The Shermans were scheduled to leave separately for Florida the following week
I would also suggest adding the discovery of the pearl earring at the bottom of the driveway- an earring similar in design to ones worn by HS in prior photos.
 
What I linked says:

“Honey also had a brief call with her sister Mary.

Honey had suggested she drop by Mary's that evening before going home. But Mary was not feeling well, and they decided to catch up in Florida the following week. That haunts Mary to this day.”

From Suspicion: Murder on Mount Olive: S2 The Billionaire Murders | E3 The Day They Died, Apr 14, 2023
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podca...ount-olive/id1622407472?i=1000608658352&r=572
This material may be protected by copyright.



Thia does not say Honey invited Mary over, and it does not say Honey suggested moving a meeting to Mary’s. It says that shortly before Honey was murdered, she spoke with Mary by phone. She suggested dropping by Mary’s and they decided against it.

If you have some other source that states otherwise, can you please point it out directly?

Oh, I understand now, my bad!

What i posted was "If H asked to have the meeting in M’s house, even more interesting. She moved the first meeting at Apotex and wanted to have another one in sister’s house." By "the first meeting" i mean, that with the architects.

What i meant to say was:

- that evening, at 5:00 pm, Honey and Barry met with the architects to discuss the plans for the Shermans' new house. The meeting was initially going to be held in the Shermans' house, but Holly moved it to Apotex.

- And then, citing you,

"Honey had suggested she drop by Mary's that evening before going home. But Mary was not feeling well, and they decided to catch up in Florida the following week."

So Honey meets with the architects at 5 pm at Apotex and leaves Apotex from 5:30 to 6pm. At 6:21 Honey speaks with her friend on the way home, and then stops at Bayview Village shopping center. After that, I assume, she arrives home (7-ish? Slightly later? We don't know). Barry leaves Apotex at 8:30 pm, and as i presume, drives home.

Were Honey to drop by Mary's that evening before going home, her arrival home time would have been later. How late? I don't know. Did the sisters have long conversations? Then, she might have returned home around 9pm? (I am guessing here).

I am unsure whether it would have changed anything for Honey personally.

And most likely, I am wrong here. But I am left with a very vague feeling that for some reason, Honey didn't want to stay at her house for at least part of that evening. From 5 to 8 pm, maybe? Or, 5-9?

i doubt that Honey was afraid of being killed. But some women have sixth sense. My questions is, was Honey intuitively feeling danger that day? Did she make some observation she could not yet put into words? Did she not want to stay in her house alone with Barry that evening? Or did she not want to return home earlier than Barry? Or did she feel some danger in the house?

Pure speculations, of course. But still... Honey, in a major way, defines herself by philanthropist work. And yet she misses an important meeting. Looking at their schedule, I can see that Honey is an organized, energetic person. So it has little to do with.packing suitcases for the trip. Something important.

And the next day, just my feeling, she doesn't want to stay at home.

Question to anyone who might know: how good was Honey with a computer?
 
Well it’s convenient for TPS to say that- after all, they didn’t find the earring! And of all the houses in Toronto, the earring just happens to show up at the Sherman murder scene. Ok.
 
UPDATE:
I am going to list the things that I consider unusual activities that some people claim, occurred around the time of the deaths.
  1. Honey misses a charity meeting.
  2. Barry says he has to go home early for some reason.
  3. Honey wants to visit her sister, but does not.
  4. Jon takes a picture of his hand showing a time stamp.
  5. Two SUV's and four men arrive next door.
  6. Sherman's murdered by strangulation, ligatures removed
  7. Bodies staged in unique way.
  8. Lawyer calls Sherman home around 9:00pm, no answer.
  9. NW is seen around the house, and declared a suspect.
  10. Man and vehicle show up at home next day, likely LE, following up on a 911 call.
Further events mentioned.
11. Jonathon was abroad in Japan and returned late Tuesday evening, one day before the murders.
12. The Sherman's' were scheduled to leave separately for Florida the following week.

I am not sure if the 'found earring' fits on this list. Could have been dropped weeks before, and maybe it did not belong to Honey.


Chariot123 surmised "Honey didn't want to stay at her house for at least part of that evening. From 5 to 8 pm, maybe? Or, 5-9?"

Was there a real estate showing scheduled at those times? Could be a reason to stay away.
 
Oh, I understand now, my bad!

What i posted was "If H asked to have the meeting in M’s house, even more interesting. She moved the first meeting at Apotex and wanted to have another one in sister’s house." By "the first meeting" i mean, that with the architects.

What i meant to say was:

- that evening, at 5:00 pm, Honey and Barry met with the architects to discuss the plans for the Shermans' new house. The meeting was initially going to be held in the Shermans' house, but Holly moved it to Apotex.

- And then, citing you,

"Honey had suggested she drop by Mary's that evening before going home. But Mary was not feeling well, and they decided to catch up in Florida the following week."

So Honey meets with the architects at 5 pm at Apotex and leaves Apotex from 5:30 to 6pm. At 6:21 Honey speaks with her friend on the way home, and then stops at Bayview Village shopping center. After that, I assume, she arrives home (7-ish? Slightly later? We don't know). Barry leaves Apotex at 8:30 pm, and as i presume, drives home.

Were Honey to drop by Mary's that evening before going home, her arrival home time would have been later. How late? I don't know. Did the sisters have long conversations? Then, she might have returned home around 9pm? (I am guessing here).

I am unsure whether it would have changed anything for Honey personally.

And most likely, I am wrong here. But I am left with a very vague feeling that for some reason, Honey didn't want to stay at her house for at least part of that evening. From 5 to 8 pm, maybe? Or, 5-9?

i doubt that Honey was afraid of being killed. But some women have sixth sense. My questions is, was Honey intuitively feeling danger that day? Did she make some observation she could not yet put into words? Did she not want to stay in her house alone with Barry that evening? Or did she not want to return home earlier than Barry? Or did she feel some danger in the house?

Pure speculations, of course. But still... Honey, in a major way, defines herself by philanthropist work. And yet she misses an important meeting. Looking at their schedule, I can see that Honey is an organized, energetic person. So it has little to do with.packing suitcases for the trip. Something important.

And the next day, just my feeling, she doesn't want to stay at home.

Question to anyone who might know: how good was Honey with a computer?
Had Honey to be absent from Old Colony, while a hitman would have taken care of her husband? Didn't she get to be absent like she planned, was unfortunately at home and became also a victim of the hitman, because BS pleaded for it? Did BS discuss the double murder (instead of single murder of himself) with the killer before? Did BS explain to the killer, how problematic his wife's survival would be for their 4 children and the business?
 

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