CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[Charlot123]

By Anne Kingston 2019

https://macleans.ca/news/a-new-hidden-clue-in-barry-and-honey-shermans-vanishing-murder-case/

''In its reporting on the bid to knock down the house, CTV stumbled upon what could be that very thing—a previously unreported, potentially key piece of evidence. In canvassing the neighbourhood for reaction, a reporter interviewed a woman who chose not to appear on camera or make her name public. She revealed that she handed over surveillance video to police that showed a car sitting in the Shermans’ driveway on Dec. 14, a day before the bodies were found and a day after the couple was last reported seen alive. In it, a man was seen “sometimes sitting in his car for up to 15 minutes, then going inside” the house.

The fluke disclosure is a reminder that the Toronto Police Service has more evidence than the public knows—and also that the police don’t share evidence with the public.''
ETA 2019

Chief Mark Saunders on Barry and Honey Sherman case: ‘Our officers did not drop the ball’

Chief Mark Saunders says his officers have interviewed the mystery man who spent 29 minutes inside the home of Barry and Honey Sherman.

www.thestar.com

''Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders says his officers have interviewed the mystery man who spent 29 minutes inside the home of Barry and Honey Sherman while they lay dead in the basement.
“I can tell you we knew who the person was, why they were there, (the person) was interviewed,” Saunders said Tuesday in response to questions from reporters following a police board meeting.''

Well, even if they don’t have enough evidence to accuse but think that the man can be linked to the murders, should not they do something to make the community safer?

The problem of the case lies in Shermans’ money and businesses, so theoretically, there may be too many people interested in killing them. On the other hand, there may be simply two old people and a person who enjoys killing. He might be a threat to any community in general.

 

[Andreee]

dbm

 

[AndrewM71]

I don’t think this video has anything to do with the murders. Full stop.

If I am wrong, I guess it will put to rest the Mossad theories as this is pretty clumsy.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The SUVs may be nothing, but no lights going on in the home is suspicious to me.

If they were involved, Jonathon’s alibi photo taken at 7:17 pm may be more important, imo.

The police did a cell data ‘Tower Dump’ of the Sherman neighbourhood and Apotex, but they didn’t find anything. (Now I’m wondering about the four people in the two SUVs and whether they had cell phones.) Quote from older paywalled article about the Tower Dump:

“Bell, Rogers, Telus and Freedom Mobile were served with court-ordered “production orders” to release cellphone “tower dumps” to the Toronto Police Intelligence Unit. It was a considerable task for the telecommunications companies, assembling thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of bits of data — the electronic tracings of phone calls and text messages that passed through cellular towers in two areas Barry and Honey travelled both the night they were murdered, and at other key times.

These so-called “tower dumps” were then compared to about 300 cellphone numbers police had gathered in their investigation — belonging to a mix of Sherman friends, family, work associates and others. Maybe, detectives thought, just maybe, they would strike investigative gold.[…]

“We’ve exhausted all the avenues (of the cellular data),” said Toronto police Det.-Const. Dennis Yim during a recent court appearance. “We’ve done comparisons and analysis and those comparisons and analyses have not borne any fruit.””

The only thing I know for sure is that street was the Grand Central Station of suspicious activity and tragedy: break-ins, an unexplained 911 call, mysterious visitors, one pedestrian murder suspect, strange SUVs, an Urban Explorer trespassing, and a terrible double-homicide.

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t think this video has anything to do with the murders. Full stop.

If I am wrong, I guess it will put to rest the Mossad theories as this is pretty clumsy.

Unless someone explains the Mossad theory in details, I don’t see much sense for any intelligence to eliminate BS. Even if Apotex was a competitor of any Israeli company, Barry was retiring and in general, there are other ways to deal with competitors.

I am thinking that except for former defectors, eliminating a citizen of another country at the territory of that country is dangerous because it might potentially lead to international conflicts.

I may not know a lot about Barry and Holly except for them being philanthropists to Jewish cause and huge political donors. However, even imagining that Mossad was super interested in eliminating the Shermans, which in itself is questionable, I assume organizing a car accident during an international trip is easier than brutally murdering two people in their own house, attracting a lot of attention in Canada and worldwide.

I suspect that Mossad could be a convenient explanation if the case is never solved, because it is “mysterious” and “spyish”, but I’d first look at 1) who profits most or 2) who really hated the Shermans.

JMO.

 

[hexicon]

I for one never argued for Mossad per se. It seems unlikely that the state of Israel would want to take out a hit on the Shermans, particularly given Honey's philanthropy work.

That said, I believed that this involved hired contractors with military or state-sponsored training, such as former CIA/KGB/SVR/Mossad types. Private security contractors employ this kind of people. Some of these security companies are not known for their ethics, e.g., Black Cube during the Harvey Weinstein scandal. I don't think that these firms employ assassins but would they know someone who knows someone? Immediately after the murders, the family hired an Israel-based security firm for protection, leading me to believe that a company like this was already in the mix.

When I first heard the story about the two SUVs, I was excited, but after more thought IMO this pokes a hole in the hired professional theory. If it is connected to the murders, it seems very sloppy. My theory involved a couple of guys approaching separately on foot disguised as walkers, utility workers, etc., with a car doing a wide circle to pick them up when it was over. OTOH the theory didn't work with KD's apparent belief that the person who wanted them dead was present.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Perhaps so. But why wouldn’t LE just come out and say that they know who these individuals are and that they have nothing to do with the murders? Instead they make these individuals go through the past 7 years with Sherman neighbours who may know their identity, , the homeowners that owned the house, , and others thinking they may have been involved in the murders?

Thought of another reason, to protect the privacy of innocent bystander’s that have nothing to do with the case.

If I were one of those 4 and was in no way connected to the situation, saw nothing, and the LE gave my name to the public, or even enough information that a friend or one of you sleuths could figure out who I was, my character to be analyzed, shredded and discussed by the public, as a witness to a crime, Ouch, my life could now be in danger by the killer(s) as well.

Privacy is #1, it helps to protect each individual.

LE have said as much about the Thursday visitor, they know who he is and have spoken to him. Nothing else, and many of us want to know more before we take their word that he is not involved and not the killer. That would only potentially happen in a court case.

 

[ldlager]

Thought of another reason, to protect the privacy of innocent bystander’s that have nothing to do with the case.

If I were one of those 4 and was in no way connected to the situation, saw nothing, and the LE gave my name to the public, or even enough information that a friend or one of you sleuths could figure out who I was, my character to be analyzed, shredded and discussed by the public, as a witness to a crime, Ouch, my life could now be in danger by the killer(s) as well.

Privacy is #1, it helps to protect each individual.

LE have said as much about the Thursday visitor, they know who he is and have spoken to him. Nothing else, and many of us want to know more before we take their word that he is not involved and not the killer. That would only potentially happen in a court case.

I am not suggesting LE release names. But in light of this story, it would have been simple and non threatening for the LE spokesperson to simply say that LE knows who these people are, and why they were there. If they had nothing to do with the murders LE could have also stated that without jeopardizing anyone’s privacy or wellbeing.
Instead their spokesperson clams up and say no comment, which leads me to speculate that either 1) police have never viewed the video 2) police saw the video and have no idea who they are or 3) police are not prepared to exclude them from suspicion in the murders. If one assumes thatLE has truly professionally investigated this case, then based on LE’s no comment, one could be led to assume thatLE believes that these individuals may have been involved in the murders.
LE was certainly quick to tell the public on the day the bodies were discovered that they were not looking for any suspects. I guess they learned a lesson from all the blowback that created- now they say nothing at all!!

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I am not suggesting LE release names. But in light of this story, it would have been simple and non threatening for the LE spokesperson to simply say that LE knows who these people are, and why they were there. If they had nothing to do with the murders LE could have also stated that without jeopardizing anyone’s privacy or wellbeing.
Instead their spokesperson clams up and say no comment, which leads me to speculate that either 1) police have never viewed the video 2) police saw the video and have no idea who they are or 3) police are not prepared to exclude them from suspicion in the murders. If one assumes thatLE has truly professionally investigated this case, then based on LE’s no comment, one could be led to assume thatLE believes that these individuals may have been involved in the murders.
LE was certainly quick to tell the public on the day the bodies were discovered that they were not looking for any suspects. I guess they learned a lesson from all the blowback that created- now they say nothing at all!!

I think the police prefer to constantly say they have no comment. They are very tight lipped about ongoing cases unless they feel the need to say something.

 

[WINDSOR]

Am I correct in believing the TPS has chosen to say " No Comment" on the video of the two SUV's and the four men?

If these men had no involvement with the murders, no privacy issues would be breached if the TPS said, "these men, had no involvement".

It is a Wednesday night December 17, 2017, two vehicles pull up to a vacant house and are at the house about an hour. We do not know if any of the 4 individuals who arrived, entered the house. We do not know if the vacant house was occupied by any un-authorized individuals.

Crime cases are sometimes solved by looking into unusual activity that took place prior to the crime.

I think that the SUV's and four men showing up next door to the Sherman house is unusual activity at that time of night.

I also believe the TPS by not disclosing this info for so many years, knows that this event was unusual.

I am not a big believer in coincidences, I cannot think of a valid explanation for these vehicles and the four men would be at that house at that time that night.

Were they dressed as tradesmen and did they carry tools?
Were they coming to a dinner party when the homeowners were away?

It seems a peculiar, that when the TPS is stumped, they have no trouble asking for the public's help, yet, they have no trouble saying 'no comment' when they should be saying, "these individuals are cleared", or "they are suspects".

MOO

 

[fadedglitter]

"We have been able to eliminate the vast majority of people captured on the video," said Price. "We are left with one individual, whom we have been unable to identify."

The police don’t have to put out a statement every time someone notices a person near the Sherman home. They have already held a press conference explaining that they went through a large amount of video, eliminated almost everyone, and were left with one glaring suspect, the walking man.

TPS had this video and know who these people are. These four people deserve privacy and shouldn’t be doxxed and harassed just for being in the neighbourhood of a double murder.

 

[KSwizzle]

But like I’m saying before I live in Canada currently and I know how the police forces operate and if you just look into say the Nova Scotia shootings and the incompetence and direct lying to the public, it is a common occurrence in Canada that the police force whether it is municipal, provincial, or the RCMP that they will directly lie to the public about cases, and I don’t think you should take what they are saying as fact because anecdotally they will do the opposite a lot of the time, my opinion only

 

[Charlot123]

I for one never argued for Mossad per se. It seems unlikely that the state of Israel would want to take out a hit on the Shermans, particularly given Honey's philanthropy work.

That said, I believed that this involved hired contractors with military or state-sponsored training, such as former CIA/KGB/SVR/Mossad types. Private security contractors employ this kind of people. Some of these security companies are not known for their ethics, e.g., Black Cube during the Harvey Weinstein scandal. I don't think that these firms employ assassins but would they know someone who knows someone? Immediately after the murders, the family hired an Israel-based security firm for protection, leading me to believe that a company like this was already in the mix.

When I first heard the story about the two SUVs, I was excited, but after more thought IMO this pokes a hole in the hired professional theory. If it is connected to the murders, it seems very sloppy. My theory involved a couple of guys approaching separately on foot disguised as walkers, utility workers, etc., with a car doing a wide circle to pick them up when it was over. OTOH the theory didn't work with KD's apparent belief that the person who wanted them dead was present.

As one case (Dan Markel's murder) shows, even if people think they hire "professionals" it may easily backfire.

Probably one could hire killers who are "really professional", but better if they can come and leave, and leaving Canada can be traceable - unless they either cross the border into US and take a flight from there, or maybe board a cruise? Anyhow, they have to have a Canadian/US passport. Toronto is a big city, you can hide there for a while and then leave, of course. Then comes the question of an accent, looks, they really have to blend in.
That guy on the video stands out, he is tall, big, has unusual gait. At the same time, he has not been noticed around, meaning, he did blend in?

Of course, the house being on the market is a convenient time. Another possibility would be someone whose job would explain frequent travels, and here Apotex is interesting, of course.

 

[kiwi50]

Unless someone explains the Mossad theory in details, I don’t see much sense for any intelligence to eliminate BS. Even if Apotex was a competitor of any Israeli company, Barry was retiring and in general, there are other ways to deal with competitors.

I am thinking that except for former defectors, eliminating a citizen of another country at the territory of that country is dangerous because it might potentially lead to international conflicts.

I may not know a lot about Barry and Holly except for them being philanthropists to Jewish cause and huge political donors. However, even imagining that Mossad was super interested in eliminating the Shermans, which in itself is questionable, I assume organizing a car accident during an international trip is easier than brutally murdering two people in their own house, attracting a lot of attention in Canada and worldwide.

I suspect that Mossad could be a convenient explanation if the case is never solved, because it is “mysterious” and “spyish”, but I’d first look at 1) who profits most or 2) who really hated the Shermans.

JMO.

i believe it was quite possible that the Shermans were killed by a hitman, whom was an EX Mossad agent.
We know how smart their guys are.
It shouldn’t be too hard for a prominent wealthy Jewish person in another country to seek out an ex Mossad agent.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I am not suggesting LE release names. But in light of this story, it would have been simple and non threatening for the LE spokesperson to simply say that LE knows who these people are, and why they were there. If they had nothing to do with the murders LE could have also stated that without jeopardizing anyone’s privacy or wellbeing.
Instead their spokesperson clams up and say no comment, which leads me to speculate that either 1) police have never viewed the video 2) police saw the video and have no idea who they are or 3) police are not prepared to exclude them from suspicion in the murders. If one assumes thatLE has truly professionally investigated this case, then based on LE’s no comment, one could be led to assume thatLE believes that these individuals may have been involved in the murders.
LE was certainly quick to tell the public on the day the bodies were discovered that they were not looking for any suspects. I guess they learned a lesson from all the blowback that created- now they say nothing at all!!

If we expect LE to share with the public all the suspects they have investigated and determined not part of the case then we should hear about this video and people.

That does not happen in Canada.

Also it is only us public hearing about this video years later, if these 4 were involved one would think the investigations over the years would have gone in that direction. It has not.

 

[ldlager]

If we expect LE to share with the public all the suspects they have investigated and determined not part of the case then we should hear about this video and people.

That does not happen in Canada.

Also it is only us public hearing about this video years later, if these 4 were involved one would think the investigations over the years would have gone in that direction. It has not.

I think that’s the underlying point of the discussion. In fact, we have no idea what direction the investigation has gone in..or if maybe it hasn’t gone in any direction…

 

[fadedglitter]

I think that’s the underlying point of the discussion. In fact, we have no idea what direction the investigation has gone in..or if maybe it hasn’t gone in any direction…

The redactions on the ITOs are specifically to prevent the public, witnesses and perpetrator from learning the direction of the investigation. Hundreds of pages are redacted from the latest ITO; it’s reasonable to assume it has gone in a direction.

 

[WINDSOR]

"We have been able to eliminate the vast majority of people captured on the video," said Price. "We are left with one individual, whom we have been unable to identify."

The police don’t have to put out a statement every time someone notices a person near the Sherman home. They have already held a press conference explaining that they went through a large amount of video, eliminated almost everyone, and were left with one glaring suspect, the walking man.

TPS had this video and know who these people are. These four people deserve privacy and shouldn’t be doxxed and harassed just for being in the neighbourhood of a double murder.

You are correct in saying that the TPS does not have to say anything to the public. That is until you realize the TPS is paid by the public to serve and protect. It says so right on their vehicles.

I personally have trouble seeing how years of silence on this case serves and protects anybody.

You state the TPS know who the people are in the video. How difficult would it be for the TPS to say the following. "We know and have identified the men in the video, and they had no involvement in the crime."

 

[Lexiintoronto]

FWIW- this relates to recent developments—from the 2021 press conference about the WM suspect:

Det. Sgt. Brandon Price: “Numerous individuals were found on video in the neighbourhood, and our team took extraordinary efforts to identify and investigate those individuals to be able to include them or exclude them from our investigation.

These efforts included, but were not limited to, requesting video analysis from law enforcement partners, such as the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Ontario Provincial Police.

Our own forensic video analysis unit conducted photogrammetry measurements. This involves attempts to determine physical identifiers, such as the approximate height of persons captured on the videos.

We've also obtained judicial authorizations to collect data from nearby cell phone towers and cross reference that with the physical locations of individuals on the videos.

We've also conducted numerous canvasses of the neighborhood to identify individuals on the videos.

We have been able to eliminate the vast majority of people captured on video. We are left with one individual whom we have been unable to identify.[…]

(Journalist) …and is there any video showing him leaving in a vehicle or riding in a vehicle. Do we have any idea of how he came to Old Colony Road and left?

(Officer BP) So, I’m not going to get into that. I'm sorry. Thank you […]

(Officer BP) …So… we have gathered four terabytes of video footage in this investigation. And a great deal of it was from the area around Old Colony road and the surrounding neighborhood.

I'm not going to get further into it but the walking is generally the action leading hi—this individual to and from the defined area.”

Post in thread 'Canada - Barry & Honey Sherman, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*'

Dec 14, 2021

Press conference from today. I did my best with the transcription, but it was difficult to hear some of the questions from the press. So this transcript is not to be taken as ‘verbatim’—please refer to the video for 100% accuracy.

Officer Brandon Price (BP): I am a detective sergeant with the Toronto Police Service homicide squad. Four years ago the Toronto Police Service responded to an emergency call for service at a home on Old Colony road.

When officers arrived they located Barry and Honey Sherman deceased within their residence.

It was later determined...

• Lexiintoronto

• 

 

[MerlinFalcon]

FWIW- this relates to recent developments—from the 2021 press conference about the WM suspect:

After reading this I guess the cops know who those people were and that they felt they had nothing to do with the murders.