Canada, Greenland, Mexico, etc - USA Tariffs / Trade War commencing March 2025 #5

[MelmothTheLost]

It's interesting that USA generally values cheap, throwaway shoes/products that follow influencer trends, while some other countries and demographic groups value quality. Materialism pervades USA society today, something else that separates the USA from Canada. This pursuit of "cheap" leaves the USA particularly vulnerable to tariffs where all products of one type (shoes) are manufactured in one country (China).

The obsession with cheapness is not confined to the US as it's also widespread in the UK.

This has become possible due to Temu and similar apps which have become ubiquitous on social media, essentially a shop window direct to Chinese manufacturers. The UK now has a real problem with teenagers and young women in particular ordering enormous "hauls" of cheap throwaway fashion (dresses for £5, t-shirts for £1).

Outfits are worn once for a night out or for a post on Tiktok or Insta - and then just thrown away. The clothing and other apparel is so shoddily made from such cheap and shoddy materials that charity shops won't touch it - after all, what can they charge for a t-shirt which cost £1 in the first place? So almost all of it goes straight to landfill.

And the supply chain is incredibly murky in terms of modern slavery.

 

[Herat]

When I was growing up, Clark's shoes were the sign of quality, made in England. For a more dressy shoe, it was the beautiful Italian brands.

However, time and competition have substantially changed their manufacturing. Clarks are affordable because they have chosen to stay in an affordable brand level, so their shoes are made in Asia. Ferragamo have chosen to stay in the luxury level and their shoes are now $1000 a pair, but made in Italy.

Clarks Corporate Responsibility | Suppliers | Clarks.com

Doing right by consumers, shareholders and employees is second nature to us. Discover why responsible business is good business.

corporate.clarks.com

 

[Cedars]

That will be true at the cheap end of the market but it is possible to manufacture footwear in the developed world at prices that many people can afford.

All Hotter footwear is manufactured in the UK (and exported to the US). What makes it possible is that their factory in Lancashire is reported to be one of the most advanced footwear factories in the world, using technology to reduce manufacturing costs. Or at least it was a few years ago.

https://us.hotter.com/

Obviously they are not in the teens and young adult market, but that's the market segment which tends to value cheap and throwaway over quality and durability.

As you point out, there are some brands have stayed committed to local manufacturing.

I looked up my favorite brand, and discovered that, not only doesn't it manufacture in North America, but it was long since bought up by a massive conglomerate that's been buying up most well known shoe 'brands' for a few decades now. I think it's been so much easier for corporations to build empires when there's no actual factories involved. They basically just do marketing and maintain links to Southeast Asian owned and operated manufacturers. I don't think the people owning these conglomerates have any experience or knowledge about how to actually build and run a factory, they'd have to bring in all the managers, engineers, purchasing agents, etc from Asia to do it.

IMO, their main business is selling stocks on the stock market...

Wolverine World Wide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BTW the company is also in trouble because of enormous costs for cleanup of the tannery, etc, on their former US manufacturing site.

Shoe Production PFAS Contamination Leads to $113 Million Settlement

Businesses, primarily manufacturers, must be aware of their environmental and health impact, lest they be on the receiving end of a hefty lawsuit.

riskandinsurance.com

 

[acutename]

As you point out, there are some brands have stayed committed to local manufacturing.

I looked up my favorite brand, and discovered that, not only doesn't it manufacture in North America, but it was long since bought up by a massive conglomerate that's been buying up most well known shoe 'brands' for a few decades now. I think it's been so much easier for corporations to build empires when there's no actual factories involved. They basically just do marketing and maintain links to Southeast Asian owned and operated manufacturers. I don't think the people owning these conglomerates have any experience or knowledge about how to actually build and run a factory, they'd have to bring in all the managers, engineers, purchasing agents, etc from Asia to do it.

IMO, their main business is selling stocks on the stock market...

Wolverine World Wide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

BTW the company is also in trouble because of enormous costs for cleanup of the tannery, etc, on their former US manufacturing site.

Shoe Production PFAS Contamination Leads to $113 Million Settlement

Businesses, primarily manufacturers, must be aware of their environmental and health impact, lest they be on the receiving end of a hefty lawsuit.

riskandinsurance.com

pretty sure in my lifetime, some US brands- Dexter, Redwing, etc. off shored. Just saved them $. Looking at the web site, some Redwings are still made in MN and MS.
Lots of shirt and sock manufacturers (Hanes?) moved to off shore. I really like Fox River socks- think they are still from IA. but US made clothing is the exception- often pricey and "boutique," not mainstream and affordable. IMO. Some ski towns gave rise to outdoor clothing (Chuck Roast NH; Telluride CO) but once they grow to a certain size, tend to off shore IMO. thought Arcteryx was US but it started in BC (sorry Canadians) - bought out by Salomen/Addidas.... successful little companies get bought out unless they REALLY want to stay small. That is an effect of capitalism.

 

[branmuffin]

The obsession with cheapness is not confined to the US as it's also widespread in the UK.

This has become possible due to Temu and similar apps which have become ubiquitous on social media, essentially a shop window direct to Chinese manufacturers. The UK now has a real problem with teenagers and young women in particular ordering enormous "hauls" of cheap throwaway fashion (dresses for £5, t-shirts for £1).

Outfits are worn once for a night out or for a post on Tiktok or Insta - and then just thrown away. The clothing and other apparel is so shoddily made from such cheap and shoddy materials that charity shops won't touch it - after all, what can they charge for a t-shirt which cost £1 in the first place? So almost all of it goes straight to landfill.

And the supply chain is incredibly murky in terms of modern slavery.

I don't agree that all merch from Temu is shoddily made. I bought two duvet covers made in China that are sold in Canadian stores for twice what I paid for them. They were Pima cotton 400 thread count with fabulous stitching. I also bought a hand crocheted sweater that is absolutely beautiful that in Canada would cost about $125 for $28. The workmanship is gorgeous. Now it's true that they sell a lot of cheap stuff that might cost $4.99 in Walmart that I paid $1.25 for. They do sell fast fashion that I'm not a fan of. I can't verify whether production can vary depending on when or where it was made but I've only ever returned one article of clothing which was enormous. In terms of who works in those clothing factories, I would agree that the possibility of Uygher slave labor might play a part. However, most of the products in stores like Home Depot, Walmart, Homesense, Marks and Spencer, H & M, Adidas and a myriad of other companies sell those same products and paying more for them in your own country doesn't negate the fact of who creates them.

 

[musicaljoke]

Brilliant bets on what he’ll backtrack on next? He really is making himself look very silly indeed, like an impetuous child.

Farmers will likely be the last to be relieved of tariffs. What sort of people need "groceries" anyway.

 

[iamshadow21]

Bond market moves raise fears of growing bets against America

Treasury yields have been behaving unusually, sparking concerns that the typical “safe haven” investment might be losing some of its shine.

www.nbcnews.com

Investors are growing concerned about a U.S. asset exodus as Treasurys and the dollar decline

The combined decline of U.S. stocks, bonds and the dollar could be a sign of a broader shift away from investing in America.

www.cnbc.com

 

[SouthAussie]

Bond market moves raise fears of growing bets against America

Treasury yields have been behaving unusually, sparking concerns that the typical “safe haven” investment might be losing some of its shine.

www.nbcnews.com

Investors are growing concerned about a U.S. asset exodus as Treasurys and the dollar decline

The combined decline of U.S. stocks, bonds and the dollar could be a sign of a broader shift away from investing in America.

www.cnbc.com

From your first linked article ..

But experts see warning signs elsewhere, too. The value of the dollar relative to other global currencies has nosedived. This week it suffered its biggest drop since 2022 and ended Friday at its lowest level since September.


I was reading this week that, more than the stock market fluctuations, the value of the US dollar is the biggest thing to watch.

"A breakdown from the dollar's consolidation range would not only be technically significant but could also stoke fear over the health of the U.S. economy," LPL Financial's Adam Turnquist said on Friday.

The steep plunge highlights that foreign investors are ditching dollar-denominated US assets, as American markets lose their appeal ....

According to analyst George Saravelos, the sudden plunge in dollar demand also suggests that countries are reconsidering their dependence on the greenback ... That's bad news for US economic sustainability


Lots more about it here, I just can't post it all ... What the sudden plunge of the dollar means for the US economy

 

[otto]

The USA government should have known, prior to implementing 145% tariffs on products made in China, that Apple products would be hit hard. Why didn't the government exclude those digital products from tariffs in the first place?

Canada and the EU discuss tariffs in terms of specific products, industries, and production location. Meetings last weeks while details are decided. There's nothing random about Canadian and EU tariffs. Yet, with the USA, the tariffs seem random, irrational, self-destructive, and so damaging to the economy that the USA government immediately backtracks, wobbles, lurches, stalls and appears incompetent.

Trump wants to appear bold, certain and aggressive, but in the long run he appears confused, uncertain, and acting without considering consequence.

"The concept of making iPhones in the U.S. is a non-starter," said Ives, reflecting a widely held view in the investment community that tracks Apple's every move.

The disincentives for Apple shifting its production domestically include a complex supply chain that it began building in China during the 1990s.It would take several years and cost billions of dollars to build new plants in the U.S., and then confront Apple with economic forces that could triple the price of an iPhone, threatening to torpedo sales of its marquee product.

Ives estimated that the current $1,000 US price tag for an iPhone made in China, or India, would soar to more than $3,000 if production shifted to the U.S. And he says he believes that moving production domestically likely couldn't be done until, at the earliest, 2028."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-electronics-retaliatory-tariffs-exemption-1.7508923

 

[acutename]

When I was growing up, Clark's shoes were the sign of quality, made in England. For a more dressy shoe, it was the beautiful Italian brands.

However, time and competition have substantially changed their manufacturing. Clarks are affordable because they have chosen to stay in an affordable brand level, so their shoes are made in Asia. Ferragamo have chosen to stay in the luxury level and their shoes are now $1000 a pair, but made in Italy.

I have a pair of Clark's shoes I bought used (!) when I was in school and they are still in great condition. Had a pair of their sandals all through high school and college (gum rubber soles, sewed in place). Pairs bought after that had odd plastic soles that degraded after a year or two and just crumbled off the shoe.

 

[Cedars]

From the article:
"The value of the dollar relative to other global currencies has nosedived. This week it suffered its biggest drop since 2022 and ended Friday at its lowest level since September.

I'm kind of annoyed with this statement. They're trying to make it seem shocking, but the facts they cite aren't actually shocking at all: 2022 was only 3 years ago. September was only 6 months ago. Hardly earth-shatteringly scary.

The real point, IMO, is that Trump saw US bonds falling and HE panicked, and backtracked on the biggest tariffs..

But they can't print that, so they dance around it, quoting people who are hoping to influence Trump to keep backing off.

It could simply be that players who've borrowed too much money to bet too much on an increase in the market under Trump, panicked and sold off US bonds to raise money to cover their other losses.

IMO capital markets are infested by a huge number of people who are betting on what everyone else will do based on computer models, and they panic sell or buy based on anything unpredictable which their mathematical models can't compute.

JMO

 

[Snoopster]

Comment from a former Google chief regarding the AI industry:

“There’s a real limit in energy,” Schmidt told the TED conference in Vancouver on Friday, citing an estimate that the U.S. industry will need 90 additional gigawatts to not throttle data centers.

“My answer, by the way, is: Think Canada. Nice people, full of hydroelectric power. But that’s apparently not the political mood right now — sorry,” he said, in a reference to Trump’s tariffs and claims that Canada has “nothing” the U.S. needs.

Canada has answer to energy needs in AI race, ex-Google CEO says

 

[otto]

Comment from a former Google chief regarding the AI industry:

Canada has answer to energy needs in AI race, ex-Google CEO says

That might be another reason that the USA government desperately wants control of Canada - energy for AI. Canada is already ahead of the USA with a proposed centre already going through approvals in Alberta.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/why-celebrity-investor-kevin-o-leary-is-proposing-a-massive-ai-data-centre-in-northern-alberta-1.7407506

Wonder Valley – O'Leary Ventures

olearyventures.com

 

[otto]

In the 1970s, one computers was as big as an entire room, and they read information from punch cards. Fortran was the language. The next goal was miniaturization. Now computers are as small as a wrist watch. This next step seems to be creating gigantic memory storage units to operate artificial intelligence. Computers absorb information from individual users, and put it together to predict human behaviour and make decisions faster than humanly possible. Are robots based on crowd sourced digital interactions next?

Has anyone read enough about this to see where this going and why this is so important that preventing other countries from getting there first could lead to war?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

From what I've heard from people who have bought from Temu, the quality can vary.
Many were happy with what they bought.

Re where things are made. When I moved to this country town, population was about 20,000.
This town along with similar sized country towns had it's own soft drink manufacturing.
There was a shoe making factory which made good quality shoes.

A nearby town had an appliance manufacturing business where they made leading brand washing machines.
All those have been gone for years now.

Years later i was surprised to see a name everyone was talking about, Email.
I thought the Orange appliance maker was coming back. It was called Email, yonks before the name got purloined.

 

[Charlot123]

From what I've heard from people who have bought from Temu, the quality can vary.
Many were happy with what they bought.

Re where things are made. When I moved to this country town, population was about 20,000.
This town along with similar sized country towns had it's own soft drink manufacturing.
There was a shoe making factory which made good quality shoes.

A nearby town had an appliance manufacturing business where they made leading brand washing machines.
All those have been gone for years now.

Years later i was surprised to see a name everyone was talking about, Email.
I thought the Orange appliance maker was coming back. It was called Email, yonks before the name got purloined.

Temu is the same as Amazon. It is a big marketplace and you can get absolutely wonderful stuff along with crappy plastic. I didn’t download their app which is irritating.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

MSN

AAP

Australia, Indonesia strengthen ties amid tariff hikes​

Australia and Indonesia have discussed shared concerns about regional and global economies amid escalating trade tensions in the wake of US President Donald Trump's tariff hikes.

 

[Yellowbelly]

I agree with Scaramucci.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1911090647844475016

 

[detective.moon]

America’s biggest consumer spenders are skipping manicures and Ubers, as worries about the economy increase​

https://www.wsj.com/economy/consumers/women-spending-recession-economy-e492cc1e?mod=mhp

something i’ve been seeing too! i wasn’t sure if it was just my friend group / algorithm. doing “no buy” challenges (only buying essentials), using what we have, learning to sew, being more resourceful, etc. i’m not in the US but i think it’s a bit of an international trend at the moment to try to save up a bit more and look at your consuming habits because we don’t know what the future will bring.

 

[SouthAussie]

"Indeed this weekend's broad range of exemptions are in and of themselves an astonishing U-turn ....

Just under a quarter of China's total exports are now exempt from the 125% tariff ....

The White House has gone from clearly suggesting that there would be no negotiation on the baseline 10% tariffs to offering exemptions to the very products causing the deficit that the entire policy was supposed to solve.

This is a lot more than a "row back". Some have called it the "Art of the Repeal".

The US is now negotiating with the bond markets, and itself."

Trump's iPhone olive branch is a significant trade war retreat

Exempting electronics from US tariffs is a stunning about-turn by the Trump administration after 10 days of chaos.

www.bbc.com