Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #10

[Cdndadeh]

It could be because the crown/prosecution feels there isn't enough evidence or the presented evidence isn't enough for conviction and that they directed RCMP not to charge them. I know they were working on the charges, but like you said, two weeks means that either they feel that later is fine or prosecution doesn't see it they way RCMP does. After all RCMP are just enforcers of the law, crown/prosecution would have to prove guilt/innocence

There can be other reasons the crown will hold back more charges. The biggest being once they’re in custody the crown can ask for time before they get any kind of a bail hearing due to possible pending charges... they have the one charge laid that’s all they need for now.

 

[Kubirai]

No, I am simply saying that I do not believe they commited all 3 murders based on the facts that have been released.

You also have to consider that NO other persons of interest have been suggested by RCMP since they were identified as suspects, and Canadians have been sufficiently warned that they are dangerous.

 

[LadyL]

WhAt is the point? Already so much money and resources spent searching for these teens including involving the military. Let them be, if they show up in a city then bring them in otherwise it’s a complete waste of everyone’s time. Where was the army when the native girls were being murdered or when Robert Piston was cutting up prostitutes? All this for two dopey looking teenagers??

two dopey looking murderers
I'm sure the families wouldn't be pleased if we just 'let them be'

 

[10ofRods]

A few supplementary thoughts:

A life sentence is a life sentence, and a date of parole eligibility is just that - a date on which you MAY be eligible for parole. Many will never get out, and will serve their full life sentences. Clifford Olson was never getting out, Robert Pickton is never getting out, Paul Bernardo etc. Those people and many others less known will die in prison because their crimes were too heinous and they will never not be considered dangerous. So, we’ll continue to give them parole hearings as required, turn them down for parole ad infinitum, until their natural lives are over. Life sentence.

Dangerous Offenders are not automatically in jail for life, though an indeterminate sentence can and usually does have that result. It is difficult, but not impossible, to be granted parole as a dangerous offender. Many people are initially surprised by the fact that DO status cannot be applied to murder convictions (or treason for that matter) because who is more dangerous that a murder? But it makes sense when you consider that a life sentence for first or second degree murder doesn’t require any additional mechanism to keep somebody behind bars for life - you just never grant them parole. DO status is for criminals whose crimes of violence/sexual assault may not qualify for a life sentence, but who are too dangerous or habitual to be let out.

As you noted, judges now have the discretion to stack periods of parole eligibility for multiple murder convictions. It’s not limited to two - we’ve already had at least three offenders who have 25 x 3 for 75 years before being eligible to apply for parole. Thus far, judges have not given out sentences that would be expected to exceed the natural lives of the convicted. For example, Bruce McArthur was convicted of 8 murders but has parole eligibility after 25 years, because he’s already old. He will never be let out. Dellen Millard committed three murders, and can’t apply for parole for 75 years. His cases are under appeal, but its a good bet he will never be let out either. Judges have a lot of discretion here, and have used it. The law is so new that precedent is still fairly scant.

So, looong story short the answer to the OP’s question is there is no LWOP equivalent to the US, but there is effective LWOP:

-never grant parole to somebody with a life sentence
-never grant parole to somebody with Dangerous Offender status, even though their crimes may not carry a life sentence
-for people convicted of multiple murders, stack the periods of parole eligibility such that they will effectively be in jail for life without a chance at parole until they are very old, and then deny it if they make it that far

Sorry for the long post!

Do not apologize! More of this kind of explanation is needed. This is what keeps us on track and helps to frame what RCMP and others are thinking, right now.

We are all hoping that the families of Lucas and Chynna not only get answers, but some sort of path to justice - starting with charges. There may never be an arrest, sadly.

And because there may not be an arrest, maybe there will never be charges, which is a tragedy for the families of the victims and all of us who are watching from afar.

 

[CanadianMade]

You also have to consider that NO other persons of interest have been suggested by RCMP since they were identified as suspects

Considering all the focus is on them, of course not.
And there still IS one person out there that they are looking for who Could be the one who killed the other two.

and Canadians have been sufficiently warned that they are dangerous.

Yes, because they have been charged with One of the murders.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Could we get something clear? There is no call in Canada for the evidentiary details being called for here. None. Apparently, ordinary people are not clamoring for the same information as amateur detectives.

No doubt the families of the victims have had their questions answered.

Beyond that, the police will release the information that they think will help apprehension, preferably without causing panic in the entire country, even if that disappoints armchair enthusiasts.

 

[scrappinkat]

No they have not unless it was within the last hour. Please provide source and link.

I am waiting for Trooper to provide the link as he’s the one who claimed it. I looked and can not find any info that it’s true.

 

[otto]

First, charges in BC, Québec and New Brunswick must be approved in advanced by prosecutors, and they use a test that is more rigorous than the Criminal Code test of reasonable and probable grounds. The BC charging process is explained in an official document that is easily searched on the internet.

Secondly, accused do have a right to a lawyer if they ask to contact one and police certainly can’t ignore that. If they do, the whole interview may be excluded - indeed, probably will be - at trial.

When police read suspects their rights, suspects know they can speak with a lawyer. After they speak with a lawyer, police can speak with suspects without the lawyer. Suspects can choose to remain silent, but they cannot refuse to listen. Quite often, they will stop remaining silent.

 

[gitana1]

Memorial held for Australian man murdered with girlfriend in Canada

Memorial held for Australian man murdered with girlfriend in Canada

His father - NSW Police chief inspector Stephen Fowler - told a memorial service for the 23-year-old in Sydney on Friday that his son lived a life many envied.
"He didn't just dream of travelling, he worked and saved and made it happen," Insp Fowler told the hundreds gathered at Turramurra Uniting Church.

Lucas met Chynna Deese in Croatia two years ago and Insp Fowler said the two were "full of happiness".
They had embarked on a road trip around Canada before their van broke down and they were found dead on a British Columbia highway on July 15.
"We are so happy that Lucas and Chynna found each other and had such a great time travelling together, meeting new friends and just milking every last drop of fun out of life," Insp Fowler said.
"They laughed and loved, and touched the hearts of everyone they met."

I'm glad they had that time together.

 

[Moonlitnight]

right they just happened to come across three murdered people
they just have the worst luck those silly boys

Well, if someone else drove by after the silly boys committed three murders, they would just happen to come across three murdered people...

 

[10ofRods]

'A life we envied': Lucas Fowler's father pays tribute to murdered son
"During his eulogy, Stephen Fowler — a Chief Inspector for the NSW Police — said his son was known for his "beautiful" blond curls and big smile.

He said Lucas, who had three older siblings, loved the outdoors and spent much of his time camping, four wheel driving and dirt biking.

It was after finishing an apprenticeship as a motor mechanic that Lucas began travelling overseas.

"Lucas lived a life that many of us envied," said Mr Fowler.

It was during his travels in Croatia that he met and fell in love with Ms Deese.

"We never had the chance to meet Chynna in person but she became a part of our family," said Mr Fowler.

"We are so happy that Lucas and Chynna found each other and had such a great time travelling together, meeting new friends and just milking every last drop of fun out of life."

"They laughed and loved, and touched the hearts of everyone they met."

Mr Fowler said his son had been working at a ranch in remote British Columbia before his death, after obtaining a working visa in Canada.

He said the "iconic" photo of Lucas, with frozen hair and a beard full of ice, was taken after a day of hard work in freezing conditions.

"[Lucas'] message was 'this is what happens when you are out checking fences on a snowmobile in minus-36 degrees'," Mr Fowler told the congregation.

"I wrote back 'easy way to get a haircut — just snap it off'."

He then told his son that very few Australians got to experience what he had."

Thank you for this. It's very sobering to think that perhaps Lucas's ability to have an exceptional life could have attracted the attention of killers. We may never know. And that really makes me angry.

Events of this nature are rarely entirely "random," although it's possible that choice of victim in this case was based entirely on a van that appeared deserted, being by the side of the road. We can only know that if the perps are brought into custody and they speak to someone. Even then...

 

[CanadianMade]

I believe only Kam graduated high school.

Sorry, I missed this reply.
I posted a link to an article stating that the last time someone saw B and his father together was at his graduation.
I can find it again if you haven't seen it?

 

[10ofRods]

Canadian courts are not like USA courts. For example, NC courts can spend a week dragging a man's character through the mud before presenting evidence (e.g.: Jason Young, Brad Cooper).In Florida, all evidence is all over the news well before trial, and defence lawyers can act like Casey Anthony's lawyer. None of that is allowed in Canadian courts. Have faith.

Maybe there's a happy medium?

 

[BearCatSafari]

WhAt is the point? Already so much money and resources spent searching for these teens including involving the military. Let them be, if they show up in a city then bring them in otherwise it’s a complete waste of everyone’s time. Where was the army when the native girls were being murdered or when Robert Piston was cutting up prostitutes? All this for two dopey looking teenagers??

There's so much wrong with this post I can't begin to dissect it.

Two people charged with murder, "meh, let them be."

They're not teenagers making out at the movies. They've been charged with murdering people.

<modsnip: quoted post was modsnipped of that particular reference>

I keep seeing uninformed people bring up these two other subjects as though they should negate the search for these two young men.

Give your head a shake...

 

[LadyL]

Well, if someone else drove by after the silly boys committed three murders, they would just happen to come across three murdered people...

and I would wager that they would call the police, not burn vehicles and evade the law

 

[gitana1]

Before they became murderers, would merely being loners disqualify them from being an "actual soldier"?

I'm not sure that becoming part of a socialized military is in and of itself evidence of "strength of mind" or "character." Strength of mind, to me, does imply some ability to be an independent thinker and actor, not a follower.

No. Which is why I described them as "loner-murderers". Not "loners".

Being a member of the military and able to endure the rigors of basic training and getting along with a diverse group of people in an institutional setting does necessitate strength of mind and character.

Of course there are some people who are able to squeeze through despite having weak characters and there are people who become twisted from the horror of war.

But I'm not going to be sidetracked into an argument about whether the military is evil. The bottom line is these types fancy themselves to be tough soldiers but don't even have what it takes to bring themselves to enlist or remain in for long.

In such environments who a person is is quickly revealed.

 

[10ofRods]

and I would wager that they would call the police, not burn vehicles and evade the law

If not, then it gives the impression that Canada is filled with crazy lawbreakers, which is not the case. At all.

But my desire to see a bit more information (carefully managed) is precisely to avoid these impressions, which don't help. For example, RCMP could say, "we have some information from cameras to show who might be on the Alaskan Highway at those times and we continue to use that information to identify suspects. K&B are still suspects." That would be if there is, in fact, one camera at the south end of the route. If there's not a camera at the south end of the route (as some here have said there is), then the public can react by asking for more cameras (as happened in the Kenzie Lueck murder).

The public cannot ask the police to do its job better, if the police pretend that everything is as good as it gets.

 

[10ofRods]

No. Which is why I described them as "loner-murderers". Not "loners".

Being a member of the military and able to endure the rigors of basic training and getting along with a diverse group of people in an institutional setting does necessitate strength of mind and character.

Of course there are some people who are able to squeeze through despite having weak characters and there are people who become twisted from the horror of war.

But I'm not going to be sidetracked into an argument about whether the military is evil. The bottom line is these types fancy themselves to be tough soldiers but don't even have what it takes to bring themselves to enlist or remain in for long.

In such environments who a person is is quickly r

I work in VA Hospitals, where those without this "strength of mind" end up. So I beg to differ. The mental health issues of military recruits are far higher than those of the general population (and data for that goes back for a century). So the military ejects people that don't fit its "strength of mind" rubric, but no one in the public is required to use the same rubric.

The military is not evil, but neither is it a model of strong mental health qualities. MOO.

I agree that 18-19 year olds with military pretensions are a hazard. I deal with them daily.

 

[Trooper]

I am waiting for Trooper to provide the link as he’s the one who claimed it. I looked and can not find any info that it’s true.

Trooper is a she. Sorry about delay, I am running on Sydney , NSW time, . I misread the ABC report. My sincere apologies. , ( equivalent to CBC), and at this time they are still considered suspects. Plus, they are considered fugitives, a connotation that carries a bit of weight, as well. Fugitives implies a deliberate avoidance of Law Enforcement over a period of time.

Bear Clan Patrol spots fugitive Canadian teens 'scavenging for food' in remote dump

 

[Estrojane]

Sorry, I missed this reply.
I posted a link to an article stating that the last time someone saw B and his father together was at his graduation.
I can find it again if you haven't seen it?

I need proof from the school or the government. Why would you trust an article in this case?