Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[Errrr]

All this means is that they were on the bank of the Nelson at some point. That isn’t surprising as a way to avoid walking, probably with no sense of direction, through dense woods.

Some of us have posited that they could have followed the river, going east or west, along the shore, staying just out of sight.

If they managed to find a boat, the river current runs east to Hudson Bay. Gillam resident Clint Sawchuk takes people there in a 21’ jet boat, distance 145km/90 miles. One of his clients has posted a description, and photos, of the trip. The river is clearly passable going east, indeed quite broad in places as it approaches the ocean, and the client says nothing about rapids. Can anyone add further info on whether there is anything that would complicate passage going east?

Note that going west by boat would be against the current.

Speaking of a sense of direction, maybe they thought they were headed for Nelson BC!

 

[acutename]

It's like that Bear Grylls "better drink my own piss" thing..."the sun is going down, better light our vehicle on fire...." I think they may have found the one vehicle that is impossible to set on fire though...can you even ignite solid aluminum?

What happens to aluminum in a fire?
In fire tests on aluminium materials, when the temperature exceeds the melting point, in the range 600-660°C, the aluminium surface exposed to the fire can be seen to melt, but it does not burn. ... If aluminium is involved in a fire and the temperature rises to above its melting point, the metal begins to melt.Dec 14, 1982

How Hot Is a Bonfire? | Sciencing
The gases burn and increase the temperature of the wood to about 600 degrees Celsius (1,112 degrees Fahrenheit). When the wood has released all its gases, it leaves charcoal and ashes. Charcoal burns at temperatures exceeding 1,100 degrees Celsius (2,012 degrees Fahrenheit).Apr 26, 2018

https://sciencing.com/hot-bonfire-8770.html

 

[Kubirai]

who goes to the scene of a former unsolved murder and reenacts it?

There is a small chance that they actually cruised Hudson's Hope and Chetwynd area during July 13/14, looking for potential victims.

The higher probability is of course that they came across the disabled blue van after 11PM on July 14. But that opens up questions about their route and stops during July 13/14.

 

[ladysamurai]

I would be surprised if it were remains simply because I've never seen LE talk about personal items/effects and it be body parts. I am wondering if they're finding some evidence to suggest they are deceased, though. Beyond blood, I don't know what that would be short of a body.

Edited to add: I do agree with the speculation that they might not be elaborating until they contact next-to-kin if that is the case.

Agreed--but what got to me was the LE use of the word "directly." Any possession such as a shoe, cell phone or piece of clothing could have parted ways with them days ago and no longer be "directly" tied to them. To take it to a far-fetched extreme, even hair could have been cut off and handed off to someone willing to assist them by leaving it in a totally different area than their actual destination...So, what would be directly tied? That is how I came to my conclusion, strictly my own theory. Body recovery in the backcountry is not pretty--if they are dead, if they did die days ago--such as on July 22nd, two weeks ago, their bodies would have been decomposing all this time--whether on land or in water.

 

[Satchie]

Wonder if the "several personal items directly linked to the suspects" and the statement "we don’t see any likelihood of those suspects posing a threat at this point" could be connected--as in the "personal items" possibly being body parts?

I am of the opinion they spotted an abandoned boat, burnt the incriminating RAV4 and took to the river in the boat in the desperate hope of escape. Boat hit the rapids, capsized, spilling them and any belongings out. Current and rocks did not treat them gently. "Personal items" drifted to shore, boat drifted to shore further down...and maybe more will drift to shore in the coming days.

What if LE found their gun! They wouldn't be posing any threat then.

 

[otto]

Shredded articles of clothing that can be tied to them that would suggest an attack by bears, perhaps? Bloody clothing?

Two Dutch teens (volunteer teachers) were lost in the Peru Jungle - they should have turned back, instead they went over the ridge into the jungle. They lasted 9 days. There was evidence in the camera and phone that were found much later. Their things eventually washed up on shore, including shoes with feet. That's enough to rule deceased.

 

[Zella]

Agreed--but what got to me was the LE use of the word "directly." Any possession such as a shoe, cell phone or piece of clothing could have parted ways with them days ago and no longer be "directly" tied to them. To take it to a far-fetched extreme, even hair could have been cut off and handed off to someone willing to assist them by leaving it in a totally different area than their actual destination...So, what would be directly tied? That is how I came to my conclusion, strictly my own theory. Body recovery in the backcountry is not pretty--if they are did, if they did die days ago--such as on July 22nd, two weeks ago, their bodies would have been decomposing all this time--whether on land or in water.

I can see your point, but to me, something can be directly tied to them--through DNA or independent confirmation it was theirs--without being recently tied to them, if that makes sense.

 

[otto]

The job description at the ranch Lucas found employment at also listed “shooting predators” as a job duty. Perhaps Lucas was legally able to carry a non-restricted gun. If he was a legal PAL holder then it would have been legal for someone to loan him a non-restricted gun for his three week trip.

Predators means coyotes and bears. I doubt that he would be dumb enough to steal a gun from his employer and take it on his free spirited adventure with Chynna, or that his employers would hand over a gun to a temp worker.

It's problematic enough that the vehicle has registration questions. They are seasoned tourists, people who respect the law of the land, when in Rome do as the Romans, and it's unbelievable that they would also have gun. Canada is not a place where people carry a gun on free spirited adventures, or other adventures. Strikes me as bizarre to think that an Australian would want a gun in Canada.

 

[MistyWaters]

the discovery that the boat, or at least debris found near it, was connected to the suspects, i am rethinking whether the york landing sighting was truly actually them. the dump is on a peninsula, they may have had the boat ashore on the peninsula and simply ran to it and took off.

i looked up the dams along the nelson and they appear to allow for one to portage a boat along the side. manitoba hydro has some neat videos on youtube showing each of the rams on the nelson.

i’m also wondering whomever posted the map earlier on with the approx location of the rav and boat would please be able to repost! i’m clicking through so many pages and can’t seem to find it. i’m trying to gather whether they were upstream or downstream from the rav.

The distance by road between York Landing and Sundance (RAV4 location) is appx 200km (120 miles). Considering the boat was found only 13km from the RAV4, I think it’s unlikely the two found their way to York Landing only to turn back on a boat to where they’d initially set out from.

 

[MistyWaters]

duplicated

 

[acutename]

Also keep in mind, on the night of the 24th or 25th (can't remember which) were extremely heavy thunderstorms in the area, and the RCMP said it would have been very difficult for them to endure. They could have gotten soaked and maybe gotten hypothermia either way if they were alive by then. I wrote a couple of days ago about the information I was able to find on the water temperature in the Nelson River. The information I found came from further south and about 300 miles away, but it was 65 to 72 degrees F, so if the water temperature around Gillam is similar, that doesn't seem too bad. But if they got soaked in the river and the air temperature at night is around mid-50s, that could be bad if they couldn't dry off.

I think BS was always in danger of some hypothermia because he is (or was?) so thin. I think that the reported low temps were around 50F- you can die of hypothermia in that temperature, but they were young and if they had any food or propane left, or if they found some sort of shelter, they could have possibly survived, IMO. We still do not know if they actually tried going on the river in the boat.

 

[scrappinkat]

WTF? What kind of person comes across two brutally murdered people and their first reaction is to take photos and post them to the internet?

It could have been anyone, people have said the bodies were there until afternoon on the 16th, uncovered.

 

[missy1974]

[...]

“We’ve done every single thing we can,” Supt. Rupa said late Tuesday afternoon after meeting with the two leaders. “We have brought a significant amount of resources to bear in locating the two suspects and we have been unable to at this time, for a variety of reasons, some of which we’ll never actually ever know unless we actually make an arrest.”




Belongings of B.C. fugitives found on Manitoba shore; RCMP Superintendent says latest search coming to an end

SBM

This comment leads me to believe that the RCMP has not concluded that they are dead.

 

[scrappinkat]

WTF? What kind of person comes across two brutally murdered people and their first reaction is to take photos and post them to the internet?

It could have been anyone, people have said the bodies were there until afternoon on the 16th, uncovered.

 

[aphoto]

Sounds a lot like they are dead. Hopefully we will know more in the morning. I assume rcmp will give more of an update

 

[KR72]

Kind of gross, but I was just reading that in cold water, a body can take weeks before it floats to the surface.

 

[aphoto]

The distance by road between York Landing and Sundance (RAV4 location) is appx 200km (120 miles). Considering the boat was found only 13km from the RAV4, I think it’s unlikely the two found their way to York Landing only to turn back on a boat to where they’d initially set out from.

Agree. Unless you have a much more powerful boat this would be impossible. They would also have likely been detected doing that as police initially arrived in York Landing by helicopter.

 

[Seattle1]

I think they reached the end of the road on PR290, both literally and figuratively.

The RAV4 quit, probably because they drove it recklessly and carelessly to its death. Nothing there, they had no choice but to head back south on foot to get to any semblance of civilization but the Nelson River blocked their way. The rivers and lands around Port Alberni are nothing compared to the force of a northern river pouring into the Hudson’s Bay, especially after the windy and rainy weather that coincided. They perished in the wrecked boat, attempting to cross it. JMO

Split Lake to Fox Lake area where Rav4 located is about 104 miles.

Reportedly, teens purchased $20 petrol at Split Lake.

Unless they purchased fuel to burn the Rav4, they should have had plenty of fuel to arrive Gillam/Fox Lake.

I agree -- this was the end of the journey.

MOO

 

[acutename]

Also keep in mind, on the night of the 24th or 25th (can't remember which) were extremely heavy thunderstorms in the area, and the RCMP said it would have been very difficult for them to endure. They could have gotten soaked and maybe gotten hypothermia either way if they were alive by then. I wrote a couple of days ago about the information I was able to find on the water temperature in the Nelson River. The information I found came from further south and about 300 miles away, but it was 65 to 72 degrees F, so if the water temperature around Gillam is similar, that doesn't seem too bad. But if they got soaked in the river and the air temperature at night is around mid-50s, that could be bad if they couldn't dry off.

I think BS was always in danger of some hypothermia because he is (or was?) so thin. I think that the reported low temps were around 50F- you can die of hypothermia in that temperature, but they were young and if they had any food or propane left, or if they found some sort of shelter, they could have possibly survived, IMO. We still do not know if they actually tried going on the river in the boat

Perhaps the teens were never even in the river in the boat. The teens could have found the boat near where RCMP eventually discovered it - and it may never have been moved very far at all. It could have been abandoned long ago due to damage and left in the bush near the river's edge. After all, who would want it after it got bashed up by the rapids or river?

Bearing that in mind, it isn't unreasonable to think the teens stumbled upon the boat in the brush and just used it upside down to protect themselves from weather, bugs, bears, to sleep under, etc.

And since RCMP divers searched the river with the snobulance on standby, it isn't unreasonable to think they found remains, partial remains, or blood and expected to recover a body or bodies.

Alternately, if the teens went through the rapids in the boat and it tipped and eventually just floated to where the RCMP found it, it is likely that their belongings would have dispersed in/via/throughout the area from river currents and not just ended up in one general spot (which is what RCMP announcement implies).

Maybe the river didn't damage the boat at all; if they were hiding under or behind it, a grizzly or polar bear could easily damage an aluminum boat by jumping on it to get to prey.

Whatever the case, I have long thought that the RCMP are holding their cards close to their vest and have had more reason they the pubic is aware of to keep looking in the area around Gillam. We armchair sleuths don't know what we don't know.

if they are alive, I think they would be closer to civilization and trying to snatch food, unless they were able to fish, IMO.
.

 

[Moonlitnight]

That unusual comment at the end ... "we don't see any likelihood of those suspects posing a threat at this point" implies LE found some evidence pointing to their deaths.

Yes, that is quite a strange, and perhaps telling, comment.