Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[ktm44]

Yes, a trucker found them. He has not spoken publicly.

He has likely been advised by the RCMP to not speak to the media or anyone else. He will be required to testify at a trial and the last thing the Crown Prosecutor needs is a witness who's testimony is somewhat different that what the media has presented.

I'm actually surprised that the person who stayed and kept the scene secure wasn't told the same thing. It becomes easy for defence attorneys to discredit testimony when it's been spoon fed to the media.

 

[otto]

I'm wondering, there could be privacy issues in what they reveal.

Although they were suspects, they hadn't been tried, so in many ways they're still private citizens. Even if they'd been found, police wouldn't publicly reveal details of how they were located until the trial. They'd only announce they'd been taken into custody.

Similarly, I don't think police will come out and directly say they believe them to be dead, they never say that about anyone until the body is found. But if they stop looking for them, then that's probably what they think.

Since, in this scenario, this would be accidental death, not a result of a crime, I think they'd share all the details with the family and leave it up to them to decide, and if they wish, to announce whether they believe them to still be alive. Families normally keep hope alive long after police and searchers give up.

All in all, I'm not sure we'll get too many details. AS seemsvto have learned not to talk to reporters, they may regret notbstaying on his good side.

If they are presumed deceased and murder suspects, they have no privacy.

 

[Seattle1]

Above the Sundance Creek tributary? There is another rapids, but it is East of Sundance Creek.

Reports are that the boat was found near the Lower Limestone Rapids, guessing downstream.

View attachment 197260

Actually, the latest report is the boat spotted BELOW the Lower Limestone Rapids, not near.

...the spotting of a wrecked rowboat below the Lower Limestone Rapids on the Nelson River on Friday.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but if the items belonging to the suspects near the damaged boat were firmly on shore or dry land and not washed up, they 99% they are alive. In otherwords, if the boat and items washed up, then they likely met the grim reaper in the rapids. If the boat and items were placed on shore, they they were already downstream of the rapids and somehow made safe passage either by boat or portage.

So my question...have the police commented on whether the items found were washed up, or intentionally placed as if part of a camp site?

That earlier statement from RCMP had a strong implication that they believe these two are dead.

If those items were placed there, then they certainly wouldn’t feel that way.

I guess they must have washed up.

 

[copkid]

I'm wondering, there could be privacy issues in what they reveal.

Although they were suspects, they hadn't been tried, so in many ways they're still private citizens. Even if they'd been found, police wouldn't publicly reveal details of how they were located until the trial. They'd only announce they'd been taken into custody.

Similarly, I don't think police will come out and directly say they believe them to be dead, they never say that about anyone until the body is found. But if they stop looking for them, then that's probably what they think.

Since, in this scenario, this would be accidental death, not a result of a crime, I think they'd share all the details with the family and leave it up to them to decide, and if they wish, to announce whether they believe them to still be alive. Families normally keep hope alive long after police and searchers give up.

All in all, I'm not sure we'll get too many details. AS seemsvto have learned not to talk to reporters, they may regret notbstaying on his good side.

I truly hope we don't have to wait until someone writes a book!

 

[dameagatha]

We don’t know if the RAV4 was parked and set on fire or if it seized up or ran out of gas and the two set in on fire in a rage or if the engine caught fire.

There were matches on the ground near the Rav4. It was intentionally burned.

 

[MassGuy]

There were matches on the ground near the Rav4. It was intentionally burned.

Yeah, there’s no way that was an accident.

Why they burned it? That’s anyone’s guess.

 

[1892]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but if the items belonging to the suspects near the damaged boat were firmly on shore or dry land and not washed up, they 99% they are alive. In otherwords, if the boat and items washed up, then they likely met the grim reaper in the rapids. If the boat and items were placed on shore, they they were already downstream of the rapids and somehow made safe passage either by boat or portage.

So my question...have the police commented on whether the items found were washed up, or intentionally placed as if part of a camp site?

Yes... article above states "The boat, the inspector said, 'had gone through some rapids and had been significantly damaged.'”

 

[MistyWaters]

There were matches on the ground near the Rav4. It was intentionally burned.

There were several things found on the ground, as I recall. And we don’t know if the SUV was still in running condition. I think it wasn’t otherwise what’s the point of intentionally abandoning and torching it in the middle of nowhere with no way out. A suicide mission would be the only answer I can think of.

 

[ladysamurai]

"The Biology of Drowning"
http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/Fire and Rescue Personnel/Biology of drowning.pdf

I found the above article at the Western Pennsylvania Search and Rescue Development Center website:
Fire and Rescue Personnel

Interesting in how it may apply to this case. Consider that the two suspects had little body fat to start with, a week on the run may have reduced that even further.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Yes... article above states "The boat, the inspector said, 'had gone through some rapids and had been significantly damaged.'”

It's not the boat I'm wondering about, it's the other things they found...how those things got there is the key to understanding their fate.

 

[otto]

Surely not although I suppose if they thought they were as clever as Robinson Crusoe they might cut down a couple small trees to use as poles to navigate, meanwhile totally misjudging the force of the current.

Impossible to fight the force of the current and even if they did, then what, they are at the bottom of the dam - wouldn't that be a weir water spin? That would be upstream of where the boat entered the water.

Water flow pressure and level is controlled by the Nelson River dam outflow to the Hudson Bay. The suspects could not, and would not want to, go against the water current.

 

[Seattle1]

There were several things found on the ground, as I recall. And we don’t know if the SUV was still in running condition. I think it wasn’t otherwise what’s the point of intentionally abandoning and torching it in the middle of nowhere with no way out. A suicide mission would be the only answer I can think of.

It's not the first time they've done this. Why do you think they abandoned and torched the truck and camper?

 

[otto]

Actually, the latest report is the boat spotted BELOW the Lower Limestone Rapids, not near.

...the spotting of a wrecked rowboat below the Lower Limestone Rapids on the Nelson River on Friday.

Agreed. The mangled boat was found downstream of the Lower Limestone Rapids on Friday, August 2. Additional evidence has connected the mangled boat to the suspects.

 

[Pyecraft]

This is an interesting perspective, I honestly had not considered that KM & BS could be being framed.
Do you have more info on what leads you in this direction?

No info, I'm afraid just a logic from sifting through the rcmp press releases and the great work on this site. The initial rcmp reaction to the discovery of two bodies on a bleak highway seemed like something from the Cohen's movie Fargo. Embarrassing, actually. One would expect all rcmp area staff leave/vacations/off-days/speed traps to cancelled as cctv from all gas station pumps were inspected on routes out. I know northern BC, it is hardly New York city.

Rcmp have been floundering since day 0ne, chasing after the most whimsical witness sightings. The only hard evidence presented to the tax-paying public is a security tape of the two suspects walking out of a grocery store. Try running that past a jury. All the desperate man-power dispatched up to Gillam found zip, which is when the rcmp began suggesting the two fugitives were probably helped out of the area by some unwitting local. C'mon guys...

A narrative has been built to fit the crimes - that of these two youths acting out their gaming fantasies. At 19 years of age a long way from home with no street experience, you are ripe for the taking when meeting the real world. Trucks broken down but along comes the promise of more adventure, hop in boys, better burn vehicle for the insurance else the towing bill out here'll have you paying for life. And your suddenly obligated. Gimme that, wait here, go there, I know a place that pays well, trust me.

My opinion, and that's all it is, is that they were probably quite naive but enjoying the adventure and new friendship that's helping them out, feeling safe that there's two of them. I don't see them as capable planners of any of this. Someone in an earlier post posed the valid question of why then in innocence, haven't they called home. They could easily have been party to some minor crime, maybe they didn't know the botanist was murdered when with the killer had them steal the Rav4.

My theory must contain many flaws, not least where is the original vehicle that the bearded guy drove, the one seen arguing with the couple on the night before the killings? Rcmp haven't been looking for it, but maybe it'll turn up one day. Perhaps the killer stashed it somewhere along the way and is now back driving it. He's sure had the time to travel back since disposing of the kids.

It must be complete agony for the Aussie cop father especially.

 

[Kubirai]

In New Jersey there was a guy who was missing in the Passaic River for over a year.
Body found in Long Hill ID'd as David Bird, reporter missing for 14 months - nj.com

Hudson's Hope was the location where a man's body was found weeks after he fell in the river.

 

[dameagatha]

But the thing is we do not know that. Why is it considered so impossible that another person/s is responsible for the deaths of Fowler and Deese?

Because photographs show that the government response in pursuit of these suspects was to move enough military hardware to start a war in Gillam & Sundance. And, by the way, these are towns where people help each other out, as a resident who found the Rav4 in flames said. Willingly. It seems like a genuinely fine community in a beautiful place on earth that was living in peace before this nightmare started.

 

[Seattle1]

Agreed. The mangled boat was found downstream of the Lower Limestone Rapids on Friday, August 2. Additional evidence has connected the mangled boat to the suspects.

So why are you placing the boat location (map) so far above the "Lower Limestone Rapids?" That was the question.

 

[MistyWaters]

He has likely been advised by the RCMP to not speak to the media or anyone else. He will be required to testify at a trial and the last thing the Crown Prosecutor needs is a witness who's testimony is somewhat different that what the media has presented.

I'm actually surprised that the person who stayed and kept the scene secure wasn't told the same thing. It becomes easy for defence attorneys to discredit testimony when it's been spoon fed to the media.

I was surprised the female road worker talked about her 11:30pm sighting with the media as well. The medic/road worker who stayed described her as his boss so the two knew each other and both agreed to be interviewed. Unless the RCMP encouraged that because their “inside” info really helped the case garner national media attention.

 

[Satchie]

If they are presumed deceased and murder suspects, they have no privacy.

Not true. I'm talking about legal statutes: Access to Information and Privacy | Royal Canadian Mounted Police

• Obtaining consent: You must obtain the written consent (permission) of any individual whose personal information you are requesting. In the case of a deceased person, you must provide a death certificate.
• Accessing information: Making a request to access information under either act does not guarantee that you will receive all the information or records you have requested. The RCMP takes into account privacy and security considerations, among other elements, when reviewing requests. This may prevent us from releasing certain information.

Police cannot reveal personal details about someone just to satisfy public curiosity.